Thoughts on this quote from Thomas Paine regarding property.

[white_wolf]

I'm curious to hear DU's thoughts on this quote and simply Thomas Paine in general. The quote is from Agrarian Justice. "Man did not make the earth, and, though he had a natural right to occupy it, he had no right to locate as his property in perpetuity any part of it; neither did the Creator of the earth open a land-office, from whence the first title-deeds should issue. Whence then, arose the idea of landed property? I answer as before, that when cultivation began the idea of landed property began with it, from the impossibility of separating the improvement made by cultivation from the earth itself, upon which that improvement was made."

[freshwest]

1. He's right, our systems of monetary value, etc. come from this. Wars are fought for this, not ideals

I've read most of his works, and especially was taken with his pamphlet Agrarian Justice, his analysis of social inequity and what peaceful remedies could be applied.

In order to put them into practice, however, one must first, as Paine did, believe fervently in the equality of all souls on the planet.

The Randians have fought that ideal along with the Tea Party because of their ignorance of the founders of the USA.

He was viciously opposed by fundamentalists and the wealthy for because of his logical examination of Christianity, his definitions of true compassion.
Paine fought all forms of mental and spiritual tyranny.

His remedies are the basis of social democracies. It being printed in the Social Security website must gall reactionaries.

Paine is my favorite person in the world, along with Thoreau. I believe both were influenced by living in America.

[eridani]

2. Reminds me of the old joke about the sharecropper and the landlord

Sharecropper: How come I have to give you half my crop?
Landlord: Because I own the land.
Sharecropper: How come you get to own the land?
Landlord: Because my granddaddy fought Indians for this land.
Sharecropper: Can I fight you for it?

[cali]

3. I love Paine. Fascinating and brilliant man

but context helps in understanding that quote. He wasn't arguing against the ownership of private property but against landed property and the owners of such property controlling the political realm. He was arguing for the rights of suffrage for non-property owners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landed_property

and here's an interesting article about the tensions between Paine and Adams:

http://mobile.salon.com/politics/war_room/2011/03/28/thomas_paine_john_adams_economic_equality_william_hogeland/index.html

[cali]

4. I like this op. I hope we can get a discussion going on this