For the RECORD: Creationism and Intelligent Design are illegal to teach in U.S. public schools

[Mojeoux]

The trial in the Kansas State Supreme court also proves that it is STUPID to teach this stuff to children.


In 2004, the Dover, Pennsylvania school board established a policy that science teachers would have to read a statement to biology students suggesting that there is an alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution called intelligent design. Intelligent design, or ID, claims that certain features of life are too complex to have evolved naturally, and therefore must have been designed by an intelligent agent. The Dover high school science teachers refused to comply with the policy, refused to read the statement. And parents opposed to the school board's actions filed a lawsuit in federal court.

The trial that followed was fascinating. It was like a primer, like a biology textbook. Some of the nation's best biologists testified.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/intelligent-design-trial-producers-story.html



The reporters covering the trial walked out each day in awe of the amazing scientific expertise. They asked each other...."Why weren't we taught this in school?"

Why is this topic—and the teaching of evolution—so important?

Recent polls tells us that 48 percent—almost half of all Americans—still question evolution and still believe that some kind of alternative should be taught in the public schools. What happens when half of the population doesn't accept one of the most fundamental underpinnings of the sciences? Evolution is the absolute bedrock of the biological sciences. It's essential to medical science, agriculture, biotechnology. And it's critical to understanding the natural world around us.

We're a country built on our command of the sciences and technology. But we now face a crisis in science literacy that could threaten our progress in these areas and ultimately threaten our quality of life. So, at NOVA and at Vulcan, we feel that understanding the importance of evolution, and enhancing science literacy in general, are more crucial than ever.


"We have Cancer to cure here." stated republican appointee Judge Jones in the end.

[nykym]

1. Teach the basics in K-12

you need a good foundation to build on. Study what you want in college, it's your choice then.

[Mojeoux]

4. Evolution IS a basic!

I went to a Catholic school with Carmellite Nuns and Jesuit Priests and we were taught Evolution in the 5th grade. Just another manifestation of the majesty of God.

[murielm99]

19. I went to Christian schools too, on and off, throughout

my education. They were Lutheran schools. We were always taught evolution.

[PeaceNikki]

22. lol, obviously not WELS.

[murielm99]

32. Wisconsin Synod?

Nah. They are pretty nutty. My parents tried them for awhile, and went back to their old church. My family is Missouri Synod, and Missouri Synod is conservative. But no one in my family can tolerate the Wisconsin Synod.

[PeaceNikki]

33. Yes.

I was raised in the Wisconsin Synod Lutheran church. That's Michelle Bachmann's own.

[damntexdem]

5. Yes, the basics, including evolution.

Basic to biology, important to social science.

[Johonny]

6. evolution IS the base of modern biology

[RainDog]

2. creationism is a whacky conspiracy theory

akin to the birthers.

[SkyDaddy7]

8. Most "Birthers" are "Creationist" where I live!

Georgia! Where the Civil War was not lost it is just on pause until the South can rise again! YEE-HAW!

[theoldman]

3. Perhaps we need to teach that 2+2 =5 in addition to 2+2=4.

After all, there are a lot of people who don't know math very well.

[RainDog]

7. ...exactly.

this is the reality - pastors who deny evolution are lying to themselves and their congregants because that's how they make a buck - keeping people stupid.

[immoderate]

10. Well, for larger values of 2, it's so.

--imm

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. I used to read Dobzhansky in college. I was a biology major.

"Genetics of the Evolutionary Process".

difficult reading but quite fascinating. And this was long before they mapped the human genome.

[JoePhilly]

11. If they did teach creationism in schools, it would DIE and DIE fast.

The argument to teach creationism in school is usually presented by claiming that Evolution does not "explain it all". And the creationist use that approach to find what they see as "gaps".

And since there are "gaps" in our knowledge, the stuff a "God" into the gaps.

But ... if you tried to teach creationism, you can also flip the tables. Just what exactly does creationism predict from a scientific perspective? Creationism doesn't just have "gaps" it has Grand Canyon sized chasms.

Creationism if set side by side with evolution, becomes nothing.

[Mojeoux]

13. Ahem, Ther are NO GAPS in the theory of Evolution. This Nova Presentation

Shows that quite clearly and every time the Intelligent Designers say there is a gap in modern knowledge, "missing link" ect., the scientists drag out book after book and study after study to show modern evolutionary science has come a long way.

Don't forget, they call gravity a theory too.

[Volaris]

17. yep. and their argument against evolution is like stating that

Gravity is rendered invalid until such time as NASA builds them a Warp Core.

[Mojeoux]

21. Yea Star Trek reference!

People probably aren't science fiction fans if they're a creationist birther. Too bad for them.

[JoePhilly]

20. Which is why I put the word "gaps" in quotes.

My larger point however is that Creationism actually has HUGE GAPS. Whether we call it Creationism or Intelligent Design, it does not explain or predict anything.

[Mojeoux]

24. This Documentary is so worth the time!

They show exactly what you are saying.

[JoePhilly]

26. I'll have to check it out ... I have another great reference ...

It takes almost every Creationist / ID argument and beats the snot out of it.

http://www.amazon.com/Counter-Creationism-Handbook-Mark-Isaak/dp/0520249267/ref=pd_sim_b_4

If they decided to teach creationism in the local schools here, my kids would be carrying this in their backpacks.

[Volaris]

16. There should be a Nobel Prize issued for Demonstrated Achievement

in the Field of Destroying the Arguments of Idiots. I nominate Dr. Ken Miller as the first recipient of said Prize (with a meritorious ability award going to Judge Jones)

I hate ID-ers with a FURIOUS passion. Fuck those people.

[Mojeoux]

25. The case has a similarity to the California Prop 8 Challenge to Gay Marriage.

In the state court it came down to the Pro Gay Marriage side showing their proof with study after study, books and long term studies and polls. The Mormon Prop 8 people only had the Bible and some bloggers to present in court.

[JoePhilly]

12. Why do the same people who think public school teacher are BAD, want those SAME teachers ...

teaching their kids religion?

It's like these religious nuts are trying to disprove evolution by using their own inability to evolve as their example.

[kcks]

14. As for

me I believe in the big bang theory, GOD said BANG and it happened.

[ieoeja]

15. What do you mean "still" question evolution?

I grew up in the Bible Belt in the 1970s ... and people who disbelieved evolution were widely ridiculed.

The number who question evolution in this country is large and growing. We truly do live in bizarre world here.

[Spike89]

29. I suspect it is akin to the birther poll results...ie, lies

No doubt, there are idiots that don't believe in evolution and some who believe Obama isn't American. However, the polls are not accurate and certainly not worth getting riled up over. At least half the kooks I know who identify as conservatives know that the birther stuff is garbage, but if a pollster asks, they'll gleefully go along. In other words, it is pretty much the equivalent of asking a bunch of democrats if Palin lied about Trig. Some believe, most don't, but even so, the majority will answer one way just to goad the "opposition".

The reality in the evolution debate is that for most people, it is just as relevant as the birther scenarios. Saying they don't believe in evolution doesn't stop them from getting modern medicine and it seems pretty harmless to them. It is easy to lie to a pollster--I just don't get why the polls really matter.

[Kurmudgeon]

18. We were created, then have since evolved. Fighting evolution is silly.

After all, God did give humanity and the world that ability!
And for what it's worth, the testimony in Genesis isn't a technical one, just an extremely vague description of what happened. So don't go looking for language about gravitics, covalent bonding or biology. You won't find it.
The 10 Commandments and Christ's Teachings are much more important, it's not like any of us could operate a Create Your Own Universe kit anyway.

[and-justice-for-all]

23. and I hope it stays that way...

teaching religious ideology in public schools is absurd.

[Mojeoux]

28. In University, I took a "Women's Theology, Feminist's Spirituality" course.

It was lovely, With lots of ideas, philosophies, and beliefs from all through time and from allover the world.

The best was that she started the class each time with a candle and short meditation. No religion, no spirituality, just quiet minds and deep breathing.

[and-justice-for-all]

30. That is Univeristy, completely different.

[jody]

27. SCOTUS has not decided Kitzmiller v. Dover so it's not "illegal to teach in U.S. public schools".

Has the 3rd District Court of Appeals decided the case?

[hfojvt]

31. What trial in the Kansas State Supreme Court?

[Motown_Johnny]

34. was the decision that you can't teach it, or that you can't force someone to teach it?

Because there is a difference.

[cali]

36. it was clear: You cannot teach it. period.

[RainDog]

41. the judge said all the material for "intelligent design" was just creationism

that the textbook creators simply put a bad wine into a new wineskin. he wasn't buying that marketing ploy.

[RagAss]

35. I was Saved....

From religion by an Education !

[jtrockville]

37. Too bad. I think "world religions" and/or "religious myths" have a place

in public schools. Of course they shouldn't be taught as science, but I think the subject has merit.

[RainDog]

38. I do too

the problems is that one group thinks they should be able to use schools to evangelize for their views.

they don't understand the concept of education because it is antithetical to their position that indoctrination is a worthy educational goal in order to protect beliefs that cannot withstand evaluation according to our accepted scholarly practices.

in other words, they are hostile to education because it threatens their world view - and that preconceived indoctrination is more important to them than truth.

...and that's also why we have such bad govt.

[Mojeoux]

39. Part of the Creation Myth has Adam and Eve punished for eating of the "tree of knowledge."

Of course they still blame all of womanhood for eating the apple from the "tree of knowledge."

But I suspect this aspect resonates in the far right wing's condemnation of education and obfuscation of the scientific method.

I can never figure out why God would want them to be ignorant of anything. When Adam and Eve were expelled, why are they somehow suddenly naked? And what's up with the suggestion the "knowledge" was about sex anyway?

[RainDog]

40. sort of like they grew up

sort of like a parable about the reality of every human's passage from childhood innocence to adult reality.

and with the mother figure removed as monotheism became more of a doctrine, the little familial parable gets lost in visions of sin and sorrow.

adulthood is about more than that. it's also about joy in discovering just how amazing this world is and how interesting other people are beyond our small familial circle - or tribe.

maybe that's scary in tribal-think - us vs. them think.