Ya know what? Screw primarying Obama.

[Bicoastal]

If nothing else, I want to ensure his re-election if only to see the disappointment on the faces of professional hucksters like Trump and Palin. I feel like sticking up for the guy if only because his enemies are so slimy.

And yes, that's an oversimplification of my feelings toward Obama these days, but I've really never had any major doubts about his character, and besides he now looks like Jimmy Stewart's Jefferson Smith compared to his competition. Republicans hope these personal-over-substance attacks will cause widespread distrust of the President--but I doubt it. You can only call someone an illegal alien muslim marxist socialist fascist illuminati gangster affirmative action case for so long before people start getting bored with you.

Voters claim to like tough talk to a certain extent, but they also like their national leaders to at least SEEM like decent people. (Even a gargoyle like Nixon had to pretend to cry about how much he liked puppies on occasion.) Trump and Palin can't even talk about Obama without getting nasty, and both now have the highest negatives of anyone in the field. I suspect most Democrats and many Independents will feel the same way as I do--we may not always love Obama, but we would never want to do any favors for the type of people who absolutely despise him.

[lilyin]

1. I'm beginning to feel the same way as you

Not sure I'll still feel that way in November 2012. I was planning on writing in Dennis Kucinich's name in the presidential spot. But, it would be great to see the disappointment in the faces of all the racists who hate Obama when he wins.

[Motown_Johnny]

2. I think that Obama just doesn't run around patting himself on the back

and people tend to forget what has gotten done. It should all come up again in the campaign. He likes to finish strong, even if that means letting others spring out ahead early.

A partial list of things that have gotten done include:


Two great choices for Supreme Court.

The Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

The Matthew Shepard Hates Crimes Prevention Act (which they said could not be done)

Children's Health Insurance

Tobacco Regulation

Credit Card Reform

Student Loan Reform

The Stimulus (including the largest tax cut ever, the largest investment in clean energy ever, the single largest investment in education in our country ever)

Health Reform

Wall Street Reform

The New G.I. Bill

The Food Safety Modernization Act (the most expansive food reform bill since the 1930s)

The Don't Ask Don't Tell Repeal

The New Start Treaty (even when the (R)s said he would never be able to get it passed)

Locking up over half the loose nuclear material in the world in less than half of his first term, something most (R)s thought impossible.




Most of that list is from The Rachel Maddow Show and is included in this clip
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#4077 ...

In that clip she also estimates that ~85% of what President Obama said he wanted to accomplish in his first term had been accomplished in the first half of his first term.








Remember that once this final campaign is over he doesn't need to worry about running again. His legacy will be his main focus and I am reasonably certain that he will want that legacy to be viewed as being liberal.

[Bluebear]

5. "Wall Street Reform!"

:rofl:

[Motown_Johnny]

7. From Rachel..... and weak as it is, it did pass

The (R)s would be deregulating even more and you know it.

[Hannah Bell]

3. palin is a moron & trump a slimy, pushy creep. obama is smoother, smarter & more sophisticated.

so what?

his policies suck.

what does anything trump & palin say have to do with anything? they're clowns, obvious plants.

[Bicoastal]

6. I never meant for this post to be a wonkfest...

Look, there's always a personal element to any important vote, and we underestimate that emotional response at our peril. You're fooling yourself if you think leadership is 100% about policy. Prez. Obama has never stooped to the toxic level of his critics--that means something to me.

My intention in this post was to talk a bit about these recent personal attacks, how they influence my feelings about my President, and how others might feel the same way. I've discussed Obama's policies on other threads.

[Skidmore]

9. You really expect ANYONE in the R party to be acceptable

as a president? Really? This is a two party system, like it or not.

[Hannah Bell]

10. i don't really expect anyone to be acceptable by my lights. all candidates are

vetted & financed by the same moneymen.

[Skidmore]

11. In that case, I hope you visit FR and post and lob missiles over there

with as much voracity as you do here.

[Hannah Bell]

13. no discussion is possible at fr. and i'm not a republican. i've voted

democrat in every election since i was 18.

so i flatter myself that i can criticize the democrats as i please.

perhaps i flatter democrats in my belief that they can take the heat.

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. I don't believe in "primarying" people. But....

....I do believe that that the rank and file of the party has the right to nominate the person of its choice. Part of that process involves open debate re. ideas and philosophies of governance.

The mere malevolence and unsuitability of people in the other party is insufficient reason to surrender that right.

We KNOW how the other side is.

What we want to do is find out more about the person WE nominate.

It's also, IMO, bad politics; even bad triangulation. We're looking at a 3 -party race in November if Obama is "crowned" the DEM nominee in 2012.

[elocs]

16. The point of having a primary is to come up with the best candidate who can actually win

in the general election and not to be a sacrificial lamb. If you want a candidate that makes the left orgasmic then just nominate Kucinich and watch him get his clock cleaned in the general election. Then watch what the Republicans do to this nation.

The next president will either be Barack Obama or one of the motley crew of potential Republicans. Welcome to reality.

[Smarmie Doofus]

22. If you're content to live thru another 4 years of expanding and multiplying foreign wars,

, expanding income inequality, bloated military budgets, school privatization, union busting, pension raiding, commission of and covering-up of war crimes, persecution of governmental whistle-blowers who publicize same, bullshitting and foot-dragging ( and, good gosh, last-minute "evolving" ) on GLBT issues, then it might be hard for you to recognize that stacking the deck against a primary challenge within the party rather than encouraging public discussion and debate re. all of the above (and MORE) is going to result in a lot of folks voting in NOVEMBER for people who are concerned about and talking about the issues that the party insisted on dodging in MARCH thru AUGUST.

Obama's a grown-up. Let him defend his record.

Be careful what you want ( i.e. a no-primary coronation of Obama). You might get it.

[elocs]

25. I live in Wisconsin & I can tell you no matter how bad Obama may appear to be,

the Republicans are light years worse. So given the choice between Obama and a Republican, Obama wins every time. I'm content to live with Obama rather than a Republican because I am in touch with the reality of the situation unlike many and I've seen what they can and will do.

Please, trot out all of your great candidates who you believe have a snowball's chance in hell of beating Obama and even less of winning the general election. I don't see any of them willing to put themselves millions of dollars in debt just to stroke some Liberals.

[Smarmie Doofus]

26. If this is true than he will have no trouble making the case himself.

>>>I live in Wisconsin & I can tell you no matter how bad Obama may appear to be,
the Republicans are light years worse. So given the choice between Obama and a Republican, Obama wins every time. I'm content to live with Obama rather than a Republican because I am in touch with the reality of the situation unlike many and I've seen what they can and will do.>>>>>

We've all seen what they can do. Everyone remembers Bush Jr. That's not the point.

Why do you *assume* that undergoing a primary challenge will weaken Obama as a candidate ?

Why do you assume that it won't make him stronger?

I for one, don't assume either. But I do think that a challenge from within the party will make him a more *responsible* candidate. And a better president if he's reelected.

[fredamae]

27. A more *responsible* candidate and better president?

Why would he be motivated to be a "better president"? It would be his second and last term.

I do believe that Obama, no matter what else is going on, Does care. I believe that he has taken a more centrist position, even leaning to the right a bit, b/c He's "There" in DC and has a hell of a Lot more insight to the dirty nasty politics "behind the scene". He has absolutely NO control over it.

And another thing. Why do "advanced thinkers" keep putting pressure on the president to accomplish that which he cannot, because of the real limitations of power granted to the pres?

[barbtries]

8. i'm with you

i'm ready for my obama 12 sticker. i don't see this changing, which is not to say that it could not change.

[kentuck]

12. I will be very wary about voting for another US Senator for President.

They are de-balled by that institution.

[OKNancy]

14. No one of any credibility will "primary" him anyway.

All that talk is just in the closed world of the passionate( and unrealistic)internet junkie.
None of the DU heroes will. Not Grayson, not Weiner, not Kucinich, not Feingold, not Dean.. ZERO.
So for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about how Obama sucks, it is not going to make a bit of difference.
It may make people feel better, but that's about it.

[fredamae]

15. Question: Have WE been taken in

by the "teapublicon's" rhetoric, just a little? No matter who we are, when we walk through a "pig-sty" we can't help but "get a little shit on our boots" when it's All around us.

I mean, I have been absolutely Incensed with Obama's; action, lack of action, wrong (for me) decision's etc. I have "left him" behind several times especially after he signed the "tax extension"....I am guilty of "MSM style word parsing" and "reading things" into his framing of sentences...
Bottom line for me..I stopped and looked at what he Has done, most importantly, I thought about what he Wanted to do, what the Senate/House Did do and remembered all it took was 40 lousy retards in the Senate to cause this Whole Nation to grind to a halt economically. The republicans are "Starving the Beast", on his watch to make him fail because We will have lost faith and confidence.

Well, not even Obama can fix this much stupid..and I recognized it is me who has failed the President. Even under the best circumstances He still needed "me" in an "Us" sorta way, to succeed and We dropped him like a hot potato and Waited for change. I became so Pissed when it didn't happen, I abandoned him totally.

Boy am I spoiled or what? I'm surprised he still Wants to be President.

After watching "Apology of an Economic Hitman", I have to wonder just exactly "what" he Is confronted with and what we don't know about what is really going on at that level.

I am a Democrat. I will fully support Obama.

[JoePhilly]

19. Great post. I think the GOP's entire strategy has 2 simple parts.

Part 1) Stir up the tea party xenophobes, and racists to get the GOP's insane base to go vote.

Part 2) Obstruct Obama at every single opportunity. Do everything they can to hurt the economy. Block all legislation. And if any legislation does pass, make sure its imperfect. Make sure it has something in it that will piss off some portion of the left. The goal here is to depress Democratic turnout.

Obama won by about 6% in 2008. If they can get a 3% increase in right wing nut job turnout, and get a 3% decrease in average Dem turn out. The GOP's crazy candidate will have a shot at winning. Bush II's elections wins were by 0% and 1.7%, respectively. Their ultimate goal is to suppress the Dem vote.

Then, they troll like hell to make sure that there is only one media message from the right or the left ... that message, "Obama Bad".

They want the right to scream SOCIALIST, and the left to scream CORPORATIST. They don't care WHY people don't like Obama, they just want you to not like him for whatever reason will stick. Huffpo, FDL, and most of the rest of the media plays right into it.

Obama is far from perfect, but the insane attacks he's up against are simply unprecedented. And if we don't figure that out, then our next President is going to be a GOP nut, with majorities in the House and Senate, and they WILL destroy this country.

I am a Democrat. I will fully support Obama.

[GoCubsGo]

20. Thank you.

Couldn't have said it better. None of us who isn't in the upper levels of our government really knows just how bad things are. Many of us have a fair clue, but that's it. And, that pile of shit keeps getting bigger by the day. I keep hearing how people were expecting President Obama to be another FDR. Well, besides the fact that there will only be one FDR, FDR was not expected to fix everything in the span of two years, despite constant obstructionism from "those 40 retards in the Senate". It took him nearly a decade, and would have taken even longer had not World War 2 come around.

I get pissed off at the President, too. I didn't like that he folded on the tax cuts, and healthcare reform left me wanting. But, under the current circumstances, I don't believe anyone else, not even FDR, could have done much better. And, FDR couldn't get ANY healthcare passed. Neither could Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter or Clinton. The President is doing the best anyone could do under the current situation. I can't believe he still wants to be President, either. I'd have slit my wrists long before now, if I were in that job.

[TheKentuckian]

24. Every Democratic President could have passed similar corporate welfare. Some walked away from better

Clinton could have signed this exact garbage into law. It is Gingrichcare designed by Heritage Foundation, powered bu backroom deals with the very criminal dumpsterfires that create and grow the problems with access, cost, and delivery.

A mandate to buy for profit goods from the company store is fucking evil and wrongheaded enough that I don't give a flying fuck about any redeeming features. This sets a precedent predicated on very loose language that empowers the government to mandate anything they want from anyone they want and in the age of creeping fascism and outright corporatism that is fucking batshit insane on a good day.

[elocs]

17. For those thinking of sitting out the 2012 election: you don't want what we now have in Wisconsin

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=968574&mesg_id=968685

[quaker bill]

18. It was always going to be this way

The President has elbowed them out of the center. It was not that hard because they were going in that direction anyway. Obama mostly wins by bringing the stupid out in his opponents, then pointing at it.

The only bit of real political genius he has put in evidence was beating Hillary in the primary, and even this took her campaign's cooperation. Her staff spent her time and money fighting on the wrong battlefields. Had she not underestimated him and adjusted early, she would have won.

The republicans on the other hand have been child's play. As they have been willing to do almost anything to oppose him, he gets to dictate the terms of their opposition. They have taken the bait at nearly every turn. The Ryan budget is the coup-de-gras. Democrats have tried to get Republicans to touch the third rail before, Clinton made several attempts, but each time they would want to, but backed off last minute. This President got them to take a firm grip on it and attempt to run on it and survive.

This is no small feat. Their gut hatred of the man had to exceed their instinct for political survival. Clinton got plenty of hatred, but it only reached self destructive levels with impeachment. As that story had more than one side, no one came away clean.

In this case, all they can do is make up crap about Kenya and affirmative action, then touch the third rail simply to be in opposition. Game, set, and match.

[Javaman]

21. So you are going for the "spite" vote..

oddly, I can work with that.

[Name removed]

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