GenX to Baby Boomers: Now what?

[Taverner]

Hey guys,

Look, I know we've had our kerfuffles. We were in to apathy, while you guys were into sympathy, but then we one-upped you and did the empathy thing. Ah the times, the laughs.

I make no secret that we were your first 'product'

When you guys became our teachers, our instructors, our mentors - we became your students, acolytes, your padwans

Some of us even got to be your children

Anyway, we've been in our 30s-40s lately, and you were at this point in the 80s

Yeah, we hated Reagan too - and I always wondered how Jimmy Carter, a nuclear-scientist-cum-President lost that one

But what I really need to know, what we all need to know - is now what?

Seizing the means of production has not been the problem - its what to do with those means once acquired

I know you guys are about to retire and play anything but golf (at least I hope) - and we'll be looked at as some kind of elder (does the idea of Henry Rollins as an elder strike you as ironic? Yeah, me too)

So now what?

Signed,

GenX Taverner

[ixion]

1. k/r

:applause:

[erinlough]

5. I will probably die before I retire,

but let me tell you this is not how I expected it to be either. My husband is 59 and has been tossed out, exhausted his benefits, picks up work where he can at places where he used to have an actual job. My gen-x son and his wife are working as hard as they can and I help them when I can including with housing. My profession, teaching, (which I used to be so proud of) is now the object of ridicule and derision and the job I thought was so secure may be up for grabs. I have no savings, no back-up, and I am living pay-check to pay-check. Still, I have had it much better than you, or my son, will ever have it and I am angry and scared, and depressed. I go to any protest I can. I write my congress people, I speak up, and I will always vote with you and myself and the working man in general in mind. I don't know what else to do. Sorry I can't be of any more help than that.

[Taverner]

10. Damn, its as if we're all swimming for dear life

The Titanic has sunk, and the lifeboats, long since populated with the First Class passengers, are passing us by...

[erinlough]

12. LOL, I was thinking just today

that the "end of the world" thing going around Christian groups (scheduled for May 20 something), might be a relief!

[elleng]

2. Wish I had an answer, as have 2 young'uns as daughters.

[Taverner]

3. Hey! I got two kids!

Does that mean they'll be asking me this question? Soon?

[elleng]

7. Mebbe! How old???

[Taverner]

8. The boy's 8 and the grrrl is 5

[elleng]

11. Will take a while!!!

Mine are 22 and 26, and already involved, concerned, and asking.

[Peacetrain]

4. Say what?

My Dear Tavener.. as one of the older Boomers.. let me first explain.. even in the boomers we have different attitudes.. The older boomers are your hippie types.. then you have the middle boomers who were high fliers in the 80's.. worked their butts off. (We older types went back to school for our 2nd, and 3rd degrees) That is a huge generalization.. but hey that is how it played out among my friends. Empirical observations and all that

We have no more special answers than our parents generation did.

We all get by on the hand we are dealt

Holding a pair of deuces is a different perspective than a full house.

And you guys are going to do great.. you will be stepping up to the higher offices and the power is yours. You will do fine.

Of course my 24 year old son is quite worried about you guys.. but then again.. that is the generation that will be pushing you.

Good Luck my friend.. you have a group right behind you that is bigger than boomers. The echo boomers are expecting great things out of you.

You will do fine

[Taverner]

9. How do you convince the young'uns that slack is good?

None other than "The Only Religion Invented By GenX'ers©" was invented by, well, us

That would be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius">The Church of the SubGenius

[Peacetrain]

14. That and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster..

is yours.. I think the Church of the SubGenius is a product of the Korean War Generation....


:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

32. The Church of the Subgenius had Robert Anton Wilson's fingerprints all over it.

With a bit of Tim Leary and Mark Mothersbaugh for good measure.

[RadiationTherapy]

41. Yes. Much of it is in the Illuminatus Trilogy.

23s and 5s and interdimensional existences and such.

[PufPuf23]

59. Hence my 23 -- an older Boomer. nt

[RadiationTherapy]

66. WIlson was an amazing thinker and visionary.

I hope his legacy endures and overcomes our puritan attitude towards drugs so his genius can be made real.

[PufPuf23]

92. RAW recognized "patterned thinking" and ways to make transparent the

often pathological models brought by life circumstance.

He was a loving and open-minded man.

Yes, we are Puritan about drugs (except Big Pharma).

RAW was pragamatic about the various ways to train the mind and had the advantage on peaking in creativity in the more open times of the 60-70s and then becoming a wise Elder.

At worst, RAW was humorous and historical and raw about being human.

[Warren DeMontague]

137. If you haven't seen it yet, the DVD of "Maybe Logic" is great.

http://www.maybelogic.com/

He was quite the wizened Taoist jokester, there at the end. Good stuff.

Wilson did some great stuff with semantic and language maps, too. In the "Schrodinger's Cat" trilogy there's one book where he replaced all the so-called "dirty" words with the names of prominent pro-censorship figures, 'Brownmillers' for Breasts, 'Burgering' for taking a shit, and of course 'Rehnquist' for Dick.

It's hysterical, because even to this day I can't read or hear anyone talking about "Rehnquist" without thinking--- "Dick".. :rofl:

[MedicalAdmin]

60. Don't forget the 24 hour church of Elvis. ...

http://www.24hourchurchofelvis.com/

[PufPuf23]

87. Was a good combo with Powell's Books for new visitors to

Portland, OR in old location (when actually open).

[scarletwoman]

6. Get off my lawn!

[WillyT]

13. LOL !!! - Now, Now..

:spank:

:rofl:

:D

:hi:

[leftstreet]

15. "Seizing the means of production has not been the problem" ??

whaddya mean?

[Taverner]

21. Well, there are those of us GenXers who have found themselves in management

And, of course, The White House

[JanMichael]

23. Obama is not an Xer. The 61' start year is dubious. 64? Sure. Not 61.

61 is the tail end of the boom called Gen Jones by some.

[Taverner]

24. At what point does one begin and another end...

To me Obama is a product of the boomers - his mother certainly was. As was his father.

[TuxedoKat]

49. Hard to say...

and I don't want to get argue about it but Pres. Obama's parents were born in 36 and 42, which is supposed to be the Silent Generation or Korean War Generation. To me Obama seems like more of a late Boomer, since he experienced many important events Boomers experienced such as the deaths of RFK, and MLK, Kent state, Vietnam war protests, Neil Armstrong walking on the moon, Watergate, and Nixon's resignation.

[JanMichael]

95. Ding ding. His parents were not boomers. He's the tail tail end of that demographic.

And you are also right about experiences. That's kind of why I like the Gen Jones gap filler between the Boomers and the Xers.

[marions ghost]

16. good question

Everybody of any generation with a brain and eyes to see what is going on in this country now, listen up. We need to work together. We need you. You need us.

Don't buy the division between generations garbage that keeps us all so competitive and so insecure.
Sure every generation has its own character, but don't lump everybody in a generation in one-size fits-all generalities. This artificial division benefits the consumer products markets, but it does nothing to bring about the solidarity that we need to get through these dark times.

These are dark times. Don't underestimate it. This is our lot. We have seen the reversal of just about everything fair, good, just and right in this country. Democracy itself really is in question here, I believe. This system is not working for anybody--it's not even working for the rich but they don't realize it because they're too busy watching the stock market and hiding from the truth all around them. It's just not working. I don't think at DU I need to list all the reasons why that's true.

Please do everything you can to pay attention and help us get out of this mess. It can be done, but it will take work and vigilance. Take heart from Wisconsin. If you have kids you still have to make a contribution to this effort, for them. Write letters, speak out, support orgs for change, do whatever you can. But do something. The next few years will be tough for a lot of the Boomers and tough for Gen X & Millenials.

Stick together.

sincerely, Late Boomer

[franzia99]

89. I'm happy to stick together. Please support student loan debt forgiveness, cutting tuition, and the

creation of more well paying jobs here by revising international trade agreements. I will help protect SS and medicare on condition that boomers support gens x and y on these issues.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

133. What a great Post!!! Thanks for you insight, I agree we must work together

intergenerational cooperation will be essential to maintain our Democracy.

I am a Boomer who sees much promise in the GenXers and beyond as long as we all

stick together and dont't believe the hype of FoxNews et al.

[eridani]

17. We fight to keep Social Security and Medicare with no cuts so you can have them too

You'll need both a lot more than we will.

[franzia99]

27. No thanks. I'd rather have college tuition be as cheap as it was in your day and have as many well

paying jobs.

I'd rather have that than SS and medicare without cuts.

[eridani]

30. This will never happen with corporatists in charge

Without SocSec and Medicare, you are going to be dying (collectively) comparatively young.

[franzia99]

36. Somehow, I still suspect that...

boomers' current devotion to protecting SS and Medicare and nothing else from cuts is based on self interest. There are enough of you that you can protect your turf. When you were young, you were able to keep tuition low, for example. The money has always followed boomers and their interests and needs.

[elehhhhna]

37. so you'll be hosting all the old family boomers when they're dsestitute, right?

Save SS or be invaded by sick old cranky relatives. Your choice.

[Chris_Texas]

101. No. I will be wishing them a speedy trip. Bon Voyage!

[Hannah Bell]

69. right, that's why boomer's wages were flat for thirty years & they got double-taxed for SS.

because they're so freaking powerful.

take the winger talking points & the inter-generational war back to its source.

[socialist_n_TN]

71. Sorry I'm calling bullshit here........

I'm a boomer and I've been a supporter of SS and Medicare since I was old enough to know what they were. I was close to my grandparents on both sides and I watched both programs help THEM and then when my Dad died when I was 14, I and my brother and sister received survivor benefits that helped us stay together as a family and ALL go to college.

It's an intergenerational promise that I want for MY kids now and they are FAR from retirement age. What most younger people don't realize is that life can throw a HUGE monkey wrench into ANY retirement plan. And if you're counting on IRAs and 401Ks just remember that they're based on capitalism's stock market and THAT'S subject to MASSIVE booms and busts.

Believe it or not, we ARE all in this together. Unless you're one of the lucky 1% whose a trust fund baby. Then you COULD be OK.

[Chris_Texas]

132. Yep, well said.

[Le Taz Hot]

38. Please see post #16

It's about WORKING TOGETHER AND NOT BEING DIVISIVE. It's a good post.

[eridani]

98. Good idea. Now let's get the tax rates back to what they were in 1964 n/t

[Taverner]

28. Works for me

According to the SS Admin, the funds are fine for another 50 years AS LONG AS NO ONE TOUCHES THEM

[franzia99]

29. Frankly, I think too much money is being diverted for boomer benefits.

The boomers I've spoken to say that in their day college tuition was way cheaper. These days it's through the roof. I'm not advocating cuts in social security spending but why the hell are we so adamant about protecting everything for boomers as tuition goes sky high and no one does anything?

[ohheckyeah]

33. What are YOU doing about it? n/t

[Hannah Bell]

70. frankly, i think you're buying into the fight over table scraps.

[franzia99]

76. How about this, boomers use their numbers to help forgive student loan debt and push down tuition, &

gen x and y will support you in keeping social security.

Again, I'm not saying I want SS or medicare benefits cut, I just want to make sure we're including gen x and y issues in the agenda.

[Hannah Bell]

79. how about you quit acting like "boomers" as a class are responsible for the student loan industry.

intergenerational war is a nice way to divert attention from the responsible parties.

your rhetoric is a tool of reaction.

[franzia99]

80. Dismissing my concerns as "intergenerational war" is a nice way for boomers

to make sure we stay focused on their issues.

Boomers should use their numbers to help with gen x and y's issues, and we will help with theirs.

[Hannah Bell]

82. weak. you can dodge all you want, but the "greedy seniors" meme is straight

from "right-wing talking points inc".

bashing seniors isn't going to help your issues one bit. killing SS won't reduce your student loan bill. The same actors that own the student loan industry are the ones trying to kill SS.

[franzia99]

83. See post 81 below

[Hannah Bell]

84. no, you shouldn't look to boomers for leadership. so what? killing SS & medicare won't help your

issues at all; in fact, they'll make them worse when mom & pop have to move into you & can't will their house to you because they had to sell it.

[franzia99]

86. Wow, you boomers live up to your reputation as being a self centered bunch

I have not at any point said I want to cut SS or medicare, and I have in fact said just the opposite. Yet still, to you it's all "me me me me me" and you're failing to understand what I'm saying.

Again and again I have said I will help boomers with their ss and medicare fight on condition that they help with gen x and y issues. Are you refusing to help? I would like a straight answer out of you so I can get my priorities in order.

Anyway, your single minded focus on your issues shows exactly why what I said in post 81 is right. Gen x and y should not look to your generation for leadership, you don't give a shit about our issues.

[Chris_Texas]

100. They are the generation of greed.

[Hannah Bell]

110. more winger talking points from a low-count poster.

[Chris_Texas]

113. Unless your definitiion of right wing is "Disagrees with me" then I dont qualify

But somehow I suspect that this is exactly your definition.

[Hannah Bell]

117. my definition is "ramps up intergenerational warfare", like wingers do.

[Chris_Texas]

119. So as a good liberal I should ignore sociopathic greed and indifference?

Because apparently some right winger or other has played the "intergenerational war' card?

And by the way, WHICH right winger has ever mentioned something like this? NO ONE talks bad about our precious "greatest generation" elderly. Who would dare? After all, we are all taught to revere our elders and self-proclaimed betters, no matter how irresponsible and destructive they might be.

[Hannah Bell]

109. you're hopeless. & i suspect for a reason. byebye.

[dionysus]

18. what's wrong with golf, pal?

[Taverner]

26. It's huberis

Make a really really REALLY big lawn

Then you get a bent stick to knock around a ball the size of an older silver dollar

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Fuckin' Frisbee Golf, man.

Now THERE Is a sport. Especially if you're high as a fucking kite, and it's 1989.

[Taverner]

51. Yep

Ultimate Frisbee is for stoners who are closet jocks

Frisbee golf, however, especially if played in the middle of a redwood forest, is a blast when blasted

[Paradoxical]

35. Okay, golf is fun.

I would be willing to give it up to help get rid of our over consumption of water. But I wouldn't do it with a smiling face.

[MedicalAdmin]

61. Golf is a waste of a perfectly good walk

on what used to be a perfectly good pasture.

Understand that golf was invented by the scottish for the expressed purpose of getting back at the brits for invading. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi6fPwWuO9I

[unkachuck]

19. "So now what?"

....you keep working and we'll retire....tell your kids to do the same....

[craigmatic]

20. I hate to say this even though I love gen X culture but Gen X is one of the most republican

generations we've had. I doubt they'll be as bad as the boomers though. The boomers moralized everything and really started the nanny state censoring everything. Maybe genX can push some of this back.

[Taverner]

25. I don't know about that

If anything, our nihilism alone should make us Libertarians and "Objectivists" instead of Republicans

And beyond that, if ever a political core to GenX it would be Anarcho-Syndicalism

Think the Seattle WTO protests

[Chris_Texas]

131. Yep. We damn sure are not "republican"

I think most of us are not any party. We are far too cynical. You have to earn our loyalty and none of these two jokes of a party has even begun to do that.

[craigmatic]

142. That's true but those ideologies are still on the right.

[JanMichael]

22. The problem is that we (Xers) are simply out numbered.

The age cohort above and below are damned near double in number. The age cohort above is taking more time to hang it up than the WWII generation and the Xers and that monster cohort below is getting choked by the stoppage.

There simply are not enough Xers to take over for the cohort above once they finally hang it up; and there are double the number of the cohort below to push down the replacement wages and positions.

We are literally in the middle of a fixed, to our detriment, "U" shaped generational gap. With the high side of the right side of the "U" too slow to go.

[RobinA]

54. Taking a Long Time

to hang it up? Bull. Boomers got their first president in 1992. The oldest Boomers are just turning 65. The retirement age has raised and the ability to retire for some people has been obliterated. There are still lots of pre-boomers around and plenty active. Boomers WILL be around for awhile, but it has more to do with the economy and longer life expectancies than anything else.

[Taverner]

72. ...and I don't think the boomers living into their 100s is a bad thing

100 years of experience beats 70

And 70 years experience beats 50

You see where I'm going

A while back, the pre-boomers retired, and left the boomers in charge

My guess is they (the pre-) didn't leave an instruction manual for them, and in fact couldn't, since the old rules were thrown out the window a while back

Face it: the boomers are about as good as we'll get in terms of instruction

Let's learn from their mistakes, and try to repeat their successes

One lesson no one seems to have learned, on either side, is that unilateral war, and indefinite war, is very bad

Incredibly bad

But folks here already know that

[Exilednight]

112. That sums it up pretty well. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Today I saw a guy who looked like a retired college professor & realized it was Michael Stipe.

Aging Gen X over here, too.


As for now what? Good question. We really hope that one of our brilliant nieces and nephews can crack that clean renewable energy thing, if we can't.

That's the big enchilada.

[MattBaggins]

46. Henry Rollins has a fracking talk show

I was in the Mosh Pit jamming to Rollins and now I watch him on TV.

Playing the Pixies in the car the other day and my kids are screaming for me to turn off the "old people music". Holy crap the Pixies are old people music now?

[Warren DeMontague]

55. It'd be fun to see Henry getting Orly and Trump and the other Birfers on, wouldn't it?

"You're a LIAR! You LIE!"

[adigal]

39. Now what?? Get self-sufficient.

Get educated in health careers, so you will have a job. Buy some land in a relatively safe place, grow all your food, have farm animals so you will have milk and eggs, meat if you eat it. Don't depend on anyone else to take care of your basic needs, because I am starting to think they might not be able to do so.

Peace.

[pitohui]

56. no such thing as self sufficient after 40, no such thing as DIY heart surgery

the human animal was meant to be a grandmother/father in late 30s and early 40s and then out of the way

young people can have some land and some food/farm animals and call themselves self sufficient, and that's what they do in the fourth world countries where the life expectancy is in the 40s or early 50s

if we're actually talking about gen x or the boomers, we're talking about people who have lived longer than that or who have every reason to believe they'll live longer than that

there is no such thing as self sufficient if you're middle aged or older, there is either being delusional or non delusional

the NON delusional will recognize biological and technological realities -- prime among them, being if we want to have health/quality of life in our late middle and older years, we need access to modern medical care

being self sufficient is for the delusional isolationist, but for the reality-based person, the biggest "what then" for the foreseeable future will be making sure we have access to modern medical tech, be it medicines, surgery, knowledge, and so on, and other technology that allows people to thrive into their older years (for instance, people over 60 have a greatly reduced resistance to heatstroke, so air conditioning becomes a way to save life and health at that age-- something a guy with a donkey on a farm in rural east jesus won't necessarily be able to pay for)

as for get a job in health care, feel free to invest in getting indebted and then watch 'em ship in a bunch of nurses from the phillipines who work cheaper

individual solutions to time and age won't work

at some point we have to be a part of society

[adigal]

111. I am almost 50, and I am going to be self-sufficient

and also going to run a marathon this year. If you feel that you are old and useless, then you are going to be. If you have your health, you can make changes in the world.

[MedicalAdmin]

63. +1 - and get armed because the rich will come for your shit.

No matter where you are or how you live. They have already modified the laws regarding eminent domain. No property is safe from someone who can buy a politician.

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. The best that I can come up with...

Reenforce your best and oldest friendships. It may come down to friendships protecting many of us from the ravages of senior poverty.

Break out of any leftist intellectual ghettos you may find yourself in. Yes they feel friendly and relatively secure, but if we can't engage a broader cross section of people than that, we lose.

Feed distrust of multi-national coorporations at every chance you get. Drive a wedge between mom and pops and corps. We need to restore the distrust the working classes (and that included middle middle class) previously always had for the super wealthy.

Push Solar energy like your life depends on it. I remember being twenty years old and being told that wide scale commercial solar energy was "a generation away". They will always say that because they never want Solar to become a viable alternative to fossil fuels and nuclear energy as long as there is a buck to be made in fossil fuels and nuclear energy - which they have an economic strangle hold on. We will never get widespread solar without a massive public campaign to make that a key national priority.

[BobbyBoring]

42. Ravages of senior poverty??

We're coming to eat your youngins!

[Tom Rinaldo]

43. I dunno, I'm not sure I like the taste of GenX, lol

But I do know that the last person in my circle of friends who manages to hold onto a home with an extra bedroom will probably end up having a long term guest staying with them (and no doubt Tee Pees in their yard).

[MattBaggins]

47. You can't run fast enough old timer

would you prefer we serve you with a white or red wine?

[CBGLuthier]

44. I sure hate not belonging to a gen proper

Too old for X and too young to be a proper baby boomer I was born a few weeks before Obama.

Oh well, at least nobody can blame me fore the ills of the world.

[MattBaggins]

48. See it's that kind of lack of a "can do attitude" that's ruining this world

If you had half a backbone you could find a reason to accuse yourself of the world's ills.

[Ishoutandscream2]

52. Exactly where I'm at

Obama is a month older than I. I see myself as too young for Nam, too old for MTV. I considered myself a bit "lost" but definitely sided with boomer philosophy (circa 60's) over the Gen X crowd.

[Chris_Texas]

45. I would write it a bit differently myself....

Dear Boomers,

Congratulations. You will go down in American History as the generation that took the most prosperous productive nation on earth and, in a single generation, destroyed it. Where your parents, and their parents, and every generation before, had as their goal to pass on to the future a life better than they had, YOUR goal was self gratification. Your greed was insatiable.

Your children and grandchildren will inherit a broken nation, and one that may never recover. You are passing along a nation with a destroyed infrastructure, our dams and bridges and levees and highways are falling apart, our trains are falling off the tracks, but you didn't care -- your parent's built it, let someone else rebuild it. You cared more about your stock portfolio than the future, so you supported Clinton with NAFTA and the other FTA's. YOU got paid, but you are passing along a nation with no freaking jobs. You doomed your children and grandchildren to a lifetime of minimum wage.

You inherited a nation with a hundred billion in debt, and like a college freshman with Daddy's credit card you went freaking crazy. Today the debt stands at about 15 TRILLION, with an amount equal or greater in obligations, and that's totally cool with you because you aren't the one being asked to pay for it. Your kids and grandkids and their grandkids are, and you never liked them anyway.

You show your liberalism by caring for obscure nonsense, the further removed the better. You are deeply troubled by the plight of the Outer Mongolian Chigger Snapper while in your kids rummage dumpsters looking for food and clothes. And if the polls are accurate, your current plan is to continue as you have been. Your goal, according to polls, is to spend spend spend until the devil takes you home. You want to leave NOTHING behind but wreckage and debt.

So congratulations. You will be remembered.

Sincerely,

The Future

[Taverner]

50. Well, for me I don't blame the boomers for the fall of the USA

However, I can name a bunch responsible, and quite a few of them have the surname of "Bush"

But you can't hang that sign on all of the boomers

[Chris_Texas]

58. Do I blame every individual from that generation? No.

Any more than would blame every citizen of the south for slavery and the civil war, or every citizen of Germany for WWII.

But I can say this much: what I wrote is exactly how this generation will be remembered, and for good reason. GOOD reason.

They were the generation of privilige, of entitlement. Not everyone of course, but many. The American Dream had come close to realization. Life was EASY: college or not, the future looked so bright they wore shades and told themselves that this was the way the world just was.

How do I know this? First, we need only look at what they DID, how they lived, the damage left behind. Second, one need only talk to them TODAY, with the wreckage all around them, to realize that this was how they have always been -- selfish and oblivious. People are not judged by their words, but by their actions. The "Mine all mine!" generation still has their hand out, still expects the world to twist until it breaks in order to keep them living the good life.

No generation is perfect. But looking back we can weight the positive against the negative, weight progress against failure, measure the increased prosperity and liberty and knowlege against the costs passed along, view what they accomplished versus what they left undone. In generation after generation, with only the rare exception, we see the march towards a better future. With this boomer generation there is a mountain of wreckage and debt and bloody little on the oposite side of the ledger. As kids they opposed Vietnam, then as adults they supported more ridiculous wars than their parents ever dreamed of. As kids they supported civil rights, they fought the man, and as adults they elected people like Clinton and Bush and Obama who took a flamethrower to the constitution. They inherited a nation in which people would rather die than be the bad guy, and turned it into a nation with secret prisons and torture. They spent all their own money, then their kids money, then their grandkids money, now their great grandkids money, and if they could do it they would keep on going.

They grew up and lived most of their lives in a world with jobs, then when they got old enough to have their own portfolios they said to hell with the future and voted for cash now at the expense of jobs later. Those tax cuts... that decline from a high of 90% to 75% to 50% to 35% to 15% to 0%.... who do you think demanded those? They did. They didn't want to actually PAY for things, they wanted them gifter to them. Medicare Part D? They wanted, demanded, free drugs. As with everything else, their motto is let the kids pay for them.

I could go on all day. Other's have.

This boomer generation acted like kids throwing a party while their parents are out of town. They partied hard, had a blast, pissed on the curtains, crushed their cigarettes and joints out onto the carpets, puked in the piano, burned the house down, then when their parents get home claiming it wasn't THEIR fault! Nothing THEY could do! It was their friends man.

[marions ghost]

62. good example

of the divisive BS I'm talking about.

Crazed, divisive, unproductive ranting. Calculated to pit generations against each other.

But thanks for the excellent illustration of it.

[socialist_n_TN]

73. Yep. ONe of my first posts on DU was about the ........

next big thing that the capitalists would use to divide us was the age thing. Resentment from those slightly younger for those older.

FUCK! I hate those capitalist pigs.

[franzia99]

78. No, he made a good point

I'm not saying we should hate boomers or anything, but if we don't call boomers out they'll just focus on their own issues. The fact is, by sheer numbers they're a powerful group of people. We need to make sure they don't (unintentionally) misuse that power to take a disproportionate share of resources for themselves.

I haven't heard any boomers in here talking about forgiving student loan debt or the insane price of college tuition, all I hear about is social security. It's natural for people to focus on things that affect them, but we have to make sure we don't let them give it more priority than it deserves.

[socialist_n_TN]

103. GEEZ! I'm a socialist. I want education to be FREE........

for all qualified along with ALL general welfare type industies and institutions. And I'm a boomer whose been a socialist and worked for this my whole life.

Anyway, social security and education are two different issues. Social security is a PAID FOR program. It was set up that way so that it wouldn't be part of the general tax revenue. We ALL have paid for it, including boomers who actually were charged higher SS premiums since the 80s BECAUSE of the size of the generation.

If you want any sort of economic fairness, you better start devoting your whole life to a socialist economic structure for this country. Maybe you'll have better luck with it than I have.

[Chris_Texas]

130. If what you say is true, you know what I have said is also true

Not for everyone, I am not issuing some all-encompassing indictment. But this is what your generation wrought. Nor do they deserve to have it sugar coated.

The boomer generation not only achieved the memorable distinction of being the first in american history to fail to pass on a better world with more opportunities, they took a nation with everything going for it and ran it into complete collapse. Instead of prosperity they are passing along a police state, crushing debt, no jobs, no cedit, no healthcare, and a broken infrastructure.

And so long as we are telling harsh truths, here's another. This boomer generation, according to polls, has no intention of passing along anything but debt to their kids. That's their GOAL. They are mortgaging their houses (if they still have them) to the hilt and spending the money on themselves, they are vacationing and traveling and spending, not here in america of course, but elsewhere as they can afford. They are living large, enjoying the fruits of their pillage with both hands ourt to government demanding more, while their kids wait in line outside McDonalds hoping for work.

[socialist_n_TN]

140. This meme is what the Republicans are saying

when they want to gut the social safety net. Their doing it for the "children and grandchildren of today". Which is total bullshit. I want to save, and indeed expand, the social safety net for EVERYBODY including the generations that haven't been born yet.

Maybe you just don't know, but the boomer generation was not NEARLY as monolithic as you seem to think. That's why your "broad brush" strategy plays into the privatizers hands. There was ALWAYS a group that WAS just as self centered as you seem to think that all of us were, but thankfully, they were always a minority.

[Chris_Texas]

93. Ignore reality,,, it's been the "greed" generations mantra forever. Why change now.

[MedicalAdmin]

65. I agree, especially if you know that many of the bad decisions

and lies were perpetrated by members of older generations such as Reagan, Bush, Friedman, etc.

Yes the boomers should have had those assholes arrested and shot and they didn't but then again FDR had a chance to have Prescott bush and big daddy Koch shot for treason for shipping oil to the Nazi's during WW2 and he didn't.

I guess that either Gen X will have to clean up this mess or it's over for the experiment formerly known as the USA.

[Taverner]

67. I think the problem is in that we are the good guys

We, being the Democrats

And so taking someone out and shooting them seems crazy to us. Kill your enemies? That's Republican talk, we would say

[Chris_Texas]

94. Don't kid yourself, the boomers LOVED it. For them it was great times.

And they no more want those great times to end then they will admit that THEY are the ones who incinerated the future. You damn sure don't see them marching in the streets demanding that congress eliminate Medicare Part D, do you? Hell no! They want MORE. They demand more.

And if cuts do need to be made to pay for their freebies, they are totally cool with that. Slash and burn schools, cut more spending from infrastructure, eliminate SS and Medicare and Medicaide from the future, trash planned parenthood, and public broadcasting and every social program under the sun that doesn't impact them, and keep those freebies comin'. Let someone else worry about paying for it.

They are the single largest voting block in America. And they vote to rape and pillage.

[pitohui]

57. well here is a classic post of pure ignorance

far from being the selfish shits you portray, the boomers -- brought up in a world where war was celebrated -- actually had the gonads and, often at great cost to themselves and their futures, went out and spent years protesting the war in vietnam -- their parents, who were in ww2 thought war a great good and truly didn't understand why their kids were fighting aga. war, so many boomers pretty much lost their entire family relationships, some for years, some for a lifetime

at the time they did not know that a jimmy carter would come and grant amnesty, many thought they might be losing their families forever by fleeing the usa to avoid fighting in wars

others got caught up in dangerous forms of protests, and most of the danger was to themselves, from being shot by the national guard to being caught up in FBI entrapment schemes

to call the boomers "selfish" when they were really fighting a cause, at the time, it looked like they could never win, is pretty ignorant in my view

"you got paid" -- really? the WW2 generation, of which my dad is a part, got paid, he was able to work until he was 80

i don't know any boomers up close and personal who had a steady job for even 30 years

i am from the lost (around obama's age) generation, so i don't know anyone my age or younger who has had the same
steady job for 30 years either, of course

the world is not what it was, but then it was NEVER what it was

nobody "got paid" except the ww2 generation, and they just had a lucky moment in time economically, when the world was still
young and growing, also ww2 left the world with a REALLY big rebuilding job, so that was a lot of jobs right there

but boomers didn't "get paid," a lot of them have NOTHING, have you ever met any boomers? or do you just hate your dad for some oedipal reason?

[Chris_Texas]

97. Good job protesting vietnam as kids

But let's not pretend this is something it wasn't. Your generation, from the moment it gained power, has been the most bloodthirsty generation in American History. The freaking Mongol Hordes spent less time and money invading people than you guys do. Which really makes one wonder what your problem was with Vietnam in the first place... until we look at the entire pattern of sociopathic greed the boomer generation has exhibited. Then we see the answer.

Boomers cared about Vietnam because THEY were paying the price. And that's something the boomer generation has NEVER accepted. They don't pay for anything, they take, they pillage. The minute they were old enough to pass the burden of combat off to someone else, war again became acceptable. And not just war, but secret prisons and indefinate detention and torture, two-thousand pound JDAMs dropped into residential communities, NSA wiretaps, secret police, the boomers demanded all of it, and they got it.

So again, if you are a member of this generation, congratulations. You have accomplished something that no previous generation imagined was even possible, and you will be remembered for it forever.

[franzia99]

77. Amen brother.

[socialist_n_TN]

104. Wittingly or unwittingly, both of you guys are.......

pawns in the capitalist exploiters "divide and conquer" strategy keeping "the rest of us" under their thumb and fighting over crumbs that drop from their tables.

You can either stay pawns or you can give up this hatred of people who are generally JUST LIKE YOU (or at least put it aside) and fight the REAL enemy of the BOTH of us.

[Chris_Texas]

126. Respectfully, that's total crap

The only dividing and conquering going on here was when your generation (assuming you are a part of it) divided the future from any hope of prosperity.

Again and again I have listed the carnage, and in your defense you have listed nothing. Why? Because that's the hallmark of your generation. You didn't build it, and you couldn't even be bothered to maintain it. That was someone else's problem. Your 'big struggle' was marching around in the sixties protesting war, not because you really hate war but because war seriously interferes with partying (and protests are a great place to meet chicks). If, as a generation, you were actually opposed to war we wouldn't be killing everyone. The minute you guys were too old to draft war was back on the list of cool things to do.

The same applies across the board. Boomers are a generation of VAMPIRES, draining the lifeblood of a nation to fund their existence. Nor is it any surprise at all that the demands continue to this day. You guys spent all your own money, then your kids money, then your grandkids money, and you still want more. I would bet money I don't even have that if you polled seniors today and asked "Would you support the complete elimination or SS in the future to fund a 5% increase in benefits today?" I bet 90% of seniors would say "screw the kids gimme more money!" Doubt it? That's been the patern all along. They want everything except the bill -- that's someonme else's problem. Always.

[socialist_n_TN]

141. What do you want listed?

There has been some progress (maybe even a lot of progress) in social issues and it was mostly brought about by the Boomer generation. I personally don't think that was enough and I don't think that it was as important as economic justice, but then I've always thought that. If there was a generational failing, the economic justice side was it.

However if you don't see how your broad brush generalities about the baby boom generation give aid and comfort to our common class enemies then you're either ignorant or willfully trying to divide the working class/poor.

Now if you want to bitch about Boomer Reagan Democrats or Yuppies, then I'm right there with you. I never have been able to stand those sell out motherfuckers. But don't lump us all (or even most of us) into that category. It only aids and abets the REAL enemy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

121. With a broad brush like that, you could paint a house in an hour

I'd like to point out that at every anti-war demonstration I've attended, the MAJORITY of the protesters have been boomers, with Generation Y as the next largest group. The GenXers are barely to be seen.

[ontime1969]

53. baby boomers dont know what a padwans is

LOL

[Skidmore]

64. How the heck can you even lift that paint brush you are trying to

wield? Those aren't even broad strokes, but a giant sloppy spill.

I suggest you go meet some boomers. Many of us are not able to retire, let alone afford golf clubs or the fees for the green. We are not all dead or senile but are still actively participating. Perhaps you would like to step up and assume adulthood and share in the work rather than point fingers and be snide.

Now what??? Put one foot in front of the other and move forward in the time honored tradition of hundreds of generations before yours. You have as much ability to shape the world as any of us have.

[Taverner]

68. Sigh...you didn't read my post did you?

I was not trying to paint the boomers as anything other than our teachers. And despite all the attempts of the GOP, I don't think teacher is a dirty word

Many of us in GenX had Korean War-era parents, and many of us had Boomers as parents

Most of our schoolteachers and professors were boomers

I do not think the boomers were guilty of anything other than changing some bad things

Yeah, there were many who voted for Reagan

There were a lot of Xers who voted for McCain

People do all kinds of stupid stuff when politicians appeal to their greed or fear

But considering boomers are about to retire, and we'll be left holding the steering wheel (which has been locked in a certain position by certain boomers named 'Bush')

So I think my question is valid: now what?

Because quite honestly, I haven't a clue

[Chris_Texas]

99. Here'sthe boomer answer to your question...

Q. Now What?

A. Give me more. Give me your house and you live on the street. Give me your kid's food, they don't need it. Oh, and borrow more money in your kids name and give it to me. Also, the free medical and drugs I get? I want more. A LOT more. Put off repairing those dams and bridges a few more years and give me the cash. Also, maybe some more secret police, I want more of those too, just put it on your grandkid's tab, they wont mind. And some more wars too, those are a lot of fun. Also, I think it's totally cool if YOU don't get social security or medicare or medicaide, and maybe we can cut off education for your kids, just give me the money because I want it. Those pensions that we all knew were never funded? Surprise! YOU pay for them.

etc...

That's your answer man. Asking the boomer generation what to do about anything is like asking Hannible Lecter for advice about making a salad.

Once these guys are gone maybe MAYBE we can start to rebuild from the wreckage. Honestly, I don't know that we will succeed. The damage they have caused is incredible. America will become a second or third world nation thanks to these champions of sociopathic greed and irresponsibility. We can hope for justice, but I doubt we will get even that -- they have too many votes still, too much money, too much political power.

So for now it looks like the answer will continue to be what it has been all our lives: everyone else must give up everything so that the greed generation can enjoy themselves.

[socialist_n_TN]

105. Capitalist RW talking points

Blame us when the wealthy, capitalist exploiters are the ones who're working to steal EVERYTHNG and leave the rest of us ANYTHING.

Point your anger at the REAL culprits. It's not the boomers in general. It IS the percentage of the boomer who control all the wealth and those I'll ENTHUSIASTICALLY help you to bring down.

However, I have a feeling you don't WANT to bring those real culprits down. You just want to sew dissention in the ranks of any united anticapitalist front.

[Taverner]

106. I was gonna say, that seems like a big brush

I guess I don't have the proper "boomer hate"

Shit happened, people made mistakes and people died

And the same shit would have happened no matter who was in control

[Chris_Texas]

115. This doesn't even make sense.

It's really very simple. You don't get a pass for what your government does, particularly when you VOTED TO REELECT THEM.

[socialist_n_TN]

118. It doesn't make sense to you because you're caught up

in the talking points that you're being fed by the people who actually DO control what goes on. They don't WANT you to look behind the curtain of the electoral farce to see the actual wizard in charge. It's called class struggle and we SHOULD be all on the SAME side because if we're not, we're all dead anyway.

Study up a little on the class war that's been going on for YEARS. Direct your hatred at the ones who ACTUALLY do control things, not the majority of people who are caught up in the same divisive bullshit that we've ALL been fed for decades and more. There's plenty of common ground and IT'S NOT BASED ON AGE. Or race. Or gender. Or sexual orientation. Or religion. Or any of the myriad of things that the capitalists have used to divide the working class/poor from each other SO THEY CAN KEEP THEIR POWER OVER US ALL. It's ALL about wealth and power and who has it and who doesn't. Boomers as a generation are NOT the ones in charge of our society.

[Chris_Texas]

122. WHAT talking points? From WHO?

NO ONE is talking bad about seniors. Who would dare criticize their sociopathic greed? THEY VOTE. Or is this just another case of anyone who dares question the wreckage these folks have left in their wake must be destroyed?

I really don't care how spiffy you think things are right now. They suck, badly, the nation is a fucking wreck, and 99% of the damage we are in was caused by boomers and for their benefit. So you can blame Obama or whoever you like, but the jobs got flushed by Clinton and he was cheared on by boomers. Patriot was signed by Bush and he was cheared on by boomers. Medicare Part D, totally unfunded (like everything else in DC these days) was for boomers, not for the young people getting stuck paying for it.

As with so many of these programs, the boomers get the benefits, the future generations get nothing but the bill. And by nothing I mean nothing, literally. They wont have medicare, they wont have social security, they wont have infrastructure, they wont have jobs. They don't even get fucking RIGHTS because those are gone now too. They can work at McDonalds if they are lucky. At least until those jobs are gone too. So great job guys. Bravo.

But then you apparently disagree. So you should have no trouble at all detailing all the wonderful things the boomer generation has accomplished over the last thirty or forty years. I have told you some small sliver of the bad, you tell me what wonderful accomplishments offset this freaking disaster.

[socialist_n_TN]

125. Blame the fucking reactionary fascists, not a generation......

a LOT of whom have fought for socialism for 40+ years or more. As I recall it was the Gen Xers that voted for Reagan in a majority. He reminded them of their grandfather or something. Most boomers voted AGAINST him, but between Gen Xers and the generation older than us boomers, he was voted in.

Anything that DIVIDES the working class/poor (the other 98% of us) is part of the exploiters plan to KEEP US DIVIDED. So wittingly or unwittingly, when you repeat these divisive talking points, smearing a whole generation, you're taking the side of the capitalist exploiters.

[Chris_Texas]

127. You fight with your VOTE. And that is what you are judged by.

Marching around waving signs isn't fighting. It's nothing. It's feel-good unicorn giggles.

Generation X might have liked Reagan, some few might have even voted for him. But it wasn't 10 to 20 year olds that gave him such a sweeping victory. It was boomers. The same crop that voted for Clinton and NAFTA. If you didn't want that then why did you elect both of them twice?

[socialist_n_TN]

136. Nope. Boomers voted AGAINST Reagan........

At least in '80. By almost 60% they voted for either Carter or Anderson.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

123. Uh, when I was teaching GenX college students in the 1980s, it was THEY

who were all gaga over Ronald Reagan. The boomer and earlier college professors were appalled at all the Alex Keatons (and even proto-fascists) running around the campus.

[Chris_Texas]

129. Be that as it may, BOOMERS elected Reagan twice

It was not ten to twenty year olds who elected Reagan. Generation X might have LIKED him (most did obviously), but they damn sure didn't elect him.

The boomer generation is the largest and most affluent demographic block in the country, possibly as big as all the others combined.

So you know: When Clinton took office the top employers in America were all middle-class factory jobs (GM was at number one). Today the top employer is Walmart, followed by McDonalds, UPS, Sears, Home Depot, Target. All paying as close to minimum wage as they can get away with, none offering benefits of any kind. Thanks to FTAs, enthusiastically endorsed by boomers, we exported fifty million middle class jobs and replaced them with wage slavery. This was, of course, fantastic for boomer stocks and pensions for a while, but not so good for the generations following after.

Today, sadly, the current crop of twenty year olds is living at home, no jobs, no futures. 90% of US households have a combined income of about 30,000 per year or less, which essentially means that 90% of US households are one accident, one mistake, one car problem, one illness away from financial ruin. And they have NOTHING to look forward to. Nor do they have a safety net stretched under them. When they go, they are just gone.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

134. So Chris, who's been feeding you this bullshit about "The boomers elected Reagan"?

Maybe your parents and their friends were mindless, money-grubbing suburbanites, but that sure wasn't all of us.

The problem is that idealistic, good-hearted types rarely make it into positions of power. They don't have the required ruthlessness.

By the way, here are the figures from 1980, according to the Wikipedia article, when none of the GenXers were old enough to vote.

Ages 18-21, born between 1959 and 1962--44/43/11 (Carter, Reagan, Anderson)
Ages 22-29, born between 1951 and 1958--43/43/11 (Carter, Reagan, Anderson)
Ages 30-44, born between 1950 and 1936--37/54/7 (Carter, Reagan, Anderson)
Ages 45-59, born between 1935 and 1921--39/55/6 (Carter, Reagan, Anderson)
Age 60 or older, born before 1920-------49/54/4 (Carter, Reagan, Anderson)

Here are the splits Reagan/Mondale in 1984, according to an article in Time from November 19, 1984

Voters under 25, i.e. born after 1959--60/40 in favor of Reagan
Voters 25-34 (i.e. boomers at that time)--56/40 in favor of Reagan
(It doesn't say anything about voters ages 34-65, who would be the oldest boomers and the silent generation)
Voters over 65-- 61/39 in favor of Reagan.

In 1980, 54% of boomers voted for someone other than Reagan. It was the Silent Generation and the seniors who were most enthusiastic about him.

In 1984, thanks to an inept campaign (so inept that I seriously wondered at the time if the Dems were trying to throw the election), Reagan won all age groups, but more younger people and seniors than boomers.

Check your facts before you echo right-wing propaganda.

[Iggo]

74. Baby Boomers to GenXers: Now what?

B-)

[Taverner]

75. Oh fuck...none of us have any clue do we?

A friend who worked high up in our government once told me there are no conspiracies. Just people who have no clue what they're doing, and people who know what they're doing and trying to get away with it.

[Iggo]

85. LOL, no shit huh.

B-)

[Warren DeMontague]

135. If you never listened to R.E.M.'s Murmur

now's as good a time as any.

Thanks for the Grateful Dead, by the way. :hi:

[franzia99]

81. We shouldn't look to boomers for leadership...

Boomers by force of their sheer numbers are a very powerful group. They will naturally focus on their own issues and they will be the ones who get attention because they're a huge voting block. When they were young they got cheap tuition, these days they're focused on ss and medicare. While worthwhile causes, gen x and y need to make sure their own interests are represented.

My suggestions for the gen x and y agenda are

(1) Revising international trade laws to push up wages and create jobs here

(2) forgiveness of student loan debt

(3) pushing college tuition way the hell down.

I invite people to add to the list as they see fit.

[socialist_n_TN]

138. And this socialist has NO problem with anything

you listed.

I would also add raising tax rates on individuals to pre Reagan rates (and maybe even Eisenhower rates) to pay for it.

I would also add NO changes to Social Security, one of the most SUCCESSFUL safety net plans in the entire WORLD. I want the Boomers and the Milinnials and every generation in between to be able to benefit from this successful program.


I would call for Medicare for ALL. Single payer AT LEAST.

I want food and housing subsidies so that NO one in this country goes to bed hungry or homeless.

I suggest raising the corporate tax rate and eliminating tax loopholes. NO tax breaks unless it results in a job with a LIVING wage IN THIS COUNTRY, not India.

These changes would benefit EVERY generation, not just boomers, GenX, GenY, Milennials, and all the ones I've left out and all the generations to come.

[lunatica]

88. This Boomer will have to work as long as she's alive and healthy

But I'm sure there will be many GenXers who will say I'm hoarding a job they could have.

[franzia99]

91. This gen x/yer will too.

Getting an education was so expensive and then all the jobs disappeared. It was the perfect storm making these nondischargable student loans crushingly unmanageable. If I am ever lucky enough to collect SS, it will just be garnished by my student lender.

[Chris_Texas]

102. What matters is that boomers get more

[End Of The Road]

90. Teach your children well.

You GenXers are getting too old now to change the world.

It's up to your kids -- GenY/Millenials -- now.

Please make sure they know their stuff.

[krabigirl]

108. 35 is not old. or is it?

[End Of The Road]

114. Nope, NOT old! But now you have big responsibilities

marriage, kids, mortgage, job stress...

By this point the gov't has you where it wants you: tied down. You're not a threat, because you have neither time nor energy for it.

Time to change the world is when you're unencumbered.

[Taverner]

116. My kids are post-millenials

Which means 9/11 did not happen in their lifetime

Not only that, but for all of their lives, there was a Department of Homeland Security

They won't remember Bush the lesser, but they will feel his impact - just as I didn't remember Nixon, but felt his impact

[ironrooster]

96. Seizing the means of production has not been a problem???

Really? What means of production do the progressives control? Finance? Media? Manufacturing?
What are you smoking? I want some.

[Taverner]

107. Well, at least for folks in my age demographic

I would consider Obama GenX, even though the boomers claim him as their own

I've worked under many GenX managers, for many GenX CEOs etc...

That's what I mean by the means of production

The problem is that it's not the right boomers or xers in charge

[readmoreoften]

120. I do think seizing the means of production is precisely the problem.

The baby-boomers just didn't really need to do it because they were in a better position to negotiate with Capital given the existence of the Soviet Union and the strength of unions and home and abroad.

[socialist_n_TN]

124. Yep. We did have a little more leverage than there is now

But I was always in favor of taking the means of production. Trouble was I couldn't convince enough other folks to do it. :)

In a way though, today brings it to a fine point. The capitalists show EXACTLY who they are nowdays, so it should be easier to convince the people of the need for a radical change in economic system.

But it won't be accomplished by being divided by ANYTHING.

[U4ikLefty]

128. I blame Gen$ and the Bentley Boomers. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

139. If you're talking about what we used to call Yuppies

Yeah, me too. Now THAT was a self absorbed bunch and I said it at the time. Luckily most boomers weren't like that, but there WAS a solid minority that were Yuppies and bought in wholeheartedly to the whole Reagan era bullshit.