Sex ed in the schools (or my complaints about it)

[xmas74]

My daughter is in fifth grade. Today they showed her "the film". (Women everywhere know "the film".) I saw it the other night and had no problems with it. My problems are with the discussion after the viewing.

My daughter has informed me that if she uses a tampon she could die, according to the person teaching this class. Tampons also make you "impure", which were her exact words though she has no clue what they mean. They also hurt, a lot, when you use them.

There was no other discussion about what to really expect, except for the fact that supposedly ALL WOMEN get severe mood swings but only really sick women get cramps. Oh, and the print out sent home from the school includes as a web resource the always lovely Focus on the Family. Of course Planned Parenthood is not used as a resource for any of the teachings.

I'm irritated as hell. Everything I've taught her is now a bit suspect because the nurse told them otherwise!

[Bigmack]

1. Raise hell.... nt

[xmas74]

3. I plan on it.

I couldn't believe what my child was telling me! And I'm pissed that Focus on the Family was used as a reference for this topic. I attend church services yet would never go to my pastor and expect him (or in the past, her) to tell me what to teach my child about sex ed.

[Drale]

2. Take it to the school board

This person who was in charge, is obviously unqualified and projecting their views on the children.

[xmas74]

5. This was approved by the school board.

It had their "stamp" on it.

I'm stuck in this town and I feel it every time I have something like this happen.

[riderinthestorm]

12. I hear you. School boards are the launching pad (heh) for the religious right lately.

In the past 20 years there has been a concerted effort by the religious right to change the social dynamic of our communities and they quickly figured out that school boards were an excellent first step. It's infuriating for those of us who have lived in deep red areas because this kind of mentality permeates so much of the social fabric that until you've experienced it, you just can't understand. In the area I lived in for 25 years, the FIRST question you were ever asked, after your name, was "what church do you go to?"

[xmas74]

17. Ours is "Who are your people?"

If not from the area then "Are you military?" (There is a base nearby.) Then the next question is "What church do you go to?"

I've noticed that, since I attend a mainline church I do get some rather odd looks. I've had people actually ask me if I've been "saved", and if I think I'll be raptured. (We don't believe in the Rapture.)

They are downright nutty around here, above and beyond mere conservative.

[riderinthestorm]

Wheaton IL for me, home of Billy Graham's Wheaton College

and for this atheist family, once they understood that not only did we not attend church but we didn't "believe", there was active shunning for my girls. :eyes: Made no difference to me since none of them were going to befriend heathen me, but it did make my heart break for my girls (who have since figured all this out but there is a painful learning curve).

I totally understand the "downright nutty" comment. Once you've lived in a town that had more churches per square foot than ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET, you completely get "it"

[xmas74]

29. Around here they question the level of

"Christian" and if you aren't a Southern Baptist or fundie/charismatic/evangelical type then you are not a "real" Christian.

According to quite a few around here, Lutherans/Methodists/Episcopalians/UU/etc are not "real" Christians since they don't go door-to-door and don't bother others with their beliefs.

It's all nuts.

[defendandprotect]

37. Unfortunately, fanatics -- especially religious fanatics -- are persistent . . .

and generally we aren't!!

:)

[xmas74]

39. On this I'm like a pit bull.

No way someone will make her feel bad about growing up.

[defendandprotect]

87. Good -- your daughter is lucky ....

a lot of parent's won't even know what was actually said to their kids --

leave alone do anything about it.

:)



PS: My comment was really directed to their persistence in getting on school

boards and pushing their religious beliefs.

[xmas74]

89. She needs to be armed with the correct information

I want her to make informed decisions about her body and her health.

[defendandprotect]

90. Exactly --

there's a great deal of harm done to youth when they aren't given the

appropriate info --

:hug:

[MattBaggins]

23. how would they react to a New York answer of

The Church of None'O'Ya'Bizznes

[brewens]

20. My football line coach taught our high school sex ed class.

I now know him to be a deeply religious man but he never brought that into it. His religious views may have had something to do with the school board trusting him to handle it at the time though. The coach, who was also a good biology teacher, did a great job.

[xmas74]

24. My physiology teacher in high school was deeply religious

yet did a fantastic job with the reproductive system, pregnancy (and how to prevent it), etc. She even discussed abortion, talking about it in a strictly medical sense and told us to leave our beliefs at the door. She knew what she was doing, even if she didn't agree with some of the subject matter.

[brewens]

41. I think our school board here is still pretty even handed. Sadly,

many across the country would not let classes like we had stand. They would put a religious zealot in there intentionally.

[xmas74]

43. Twenty years ago this wasn't an issue for my area.

We had thoughtful discussions. Now I've noticed that there is no discussion around there.

Maybe the lack of discussion is why the teen pregnancy rate is so high in my area.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. DIng, DIng, Ding we got a winnah!

When you got no sex ed, or really bad sex ed it goes up.

We tracked it.

[xmas74]

51. Exactly.

That's why it's so important to me. I want my daughter to know everything she needs to know in order to make the best possible decision for her.

[seabeyond]

4. i about flipped when i first moved here and heard women say not let daughter use tampons

and this very reasoning. one of those mouth hanging open, flabbergasted that anyone would think/say something like that

no way, really? really? no.... really?

couldnt get it into my brain. have heard it enough now, that ya.... people think this shit

i dont have a daughter so i dont know what the school is teaching the girls here.

[xmas74]

6. My kid is an athlete.

She's a swimmer. If she wants to keep with the swimming she'll use tampons.

Maybe I should get in front of them and explain how to use sea sponges instead.

[seabeyond]

14. hey

i was a swimmer, too. i hear ya.

i have had some surprising conversations with my youngest son due to these courses. my oldest seemed to be able to put it in its place easier. the realities. the truths. but then he read more adult books and educational books, magazines and was more into exploring conversation than this son. but there have been some surprises. i do love that the kids talk about this stuff and we are able to put in proper perspective. it also allows us as a parents to know we can jump into conversation. kid is ready.

[xmas74]

We had a decent conversation tonight

about not being afraid of what was happening, about how it would feel, etc. Some of her friends have already started so we've had these talks before. Now it's all about correcting what an instructor told her.

[Cerridwen]

7. Do you have access to another expert your daughter will

listen to? Your OB/GYN or a nurse on their staff whom you could have your daughter sit with for an honest discussion about menstruation and puberty and such?

I understand what you mean about you now being "suspect" because you're not an "expert." *sigh*

Beyond that, if you know of other parents who have your same complaints about this class, you might band together and approach the teacher/principal/PTA/school board, or barring all that, the ACLU.

Good luck!

If they can't destroy the schools from the outside they'll infiltrate and destroy from the inside. Oh wait! That's exactly what they've been doing for about 40 years.

Again...good luck!

[xmas74]

8. I'm going to call the local Planned Parenthood

and find out if there is any way I can get info from them instead. I've read their website but maybe a nice pamphlet from them might be the answer in response to the tampon scare.

I'd love to take her there but not in my town. Too many people watch the place all the time, convinced that it might be performing abortions. (The local one does not.) I don't want her to listen to the crap.

[Cerridwen]

18. I would advise against PP. Please hear me out.

I know you don't know me; I'm an anonymous poster on the internet. But, please read my reason for not using PP.

Based on your OP and info in reply to me, PP will be viewed as slanted; has an agenda, i.e. not "objective." If your daughter were to mention to her classmates that she learned her information from PP, she'd be open to ridicule, and possibly worse, from others; presuming these kids take on their parents' prejudices.

That's why I suggested your doctor. Presumably, your daughter won't think your doctor is "slanted." Is there a "cool mom" on the block you can trust to give accurate information? Sorry, "mom," it's just that thing that kids do. :hug:

I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, whatever you decide, I wish you and your daughter much luck.

[xmas74]

26. What's scary is that I'm about the most open of the moms

she knows. Most of the moms are fundie types so they won't give info.

My doctor is at Planned Parenthood, ever since I found out my now former doctor was regularly sending money to an "abortion alternative" provider.

It's hard in this neck of the woods because of how deeply religious they are around here.

[Cerridwen]

42. That may be good, then.

That your doctor is at the PP; your daughter will know them as a medical provider rather than whatever the fundie types call it.

Oh, one more thought then I'll quit giving you free advice worth what you're paying for it :) does she have a favorite aunt? Older cousin?

My mom and I were not close when I was growing up. My friends' moms and some of the older-to-me neighbor women filled in for my mom. I also had a teacher or two who pitched in with 'mom' duty. I don't think that's your case but I do know that for some children it helps to have a non-parent adult with whom to talk about those things "you don't dare" talk about with your parents.

Now...this is me butting out.

Hugs to you and your daughter. :hug: :hug:

[xmas74]

46. It's cool.

I'm the only daughter in my family. (Her father and his family have nothing to do with us.) She's the only grandchild. No aunt, no cousins.

I wish there were others to talk to but I don't know. Maybe my mom? Then again, that's another relative.

[pstokely]

65. might wanna call the ACLU and AU

http://www.aclukswmo.org/?page=contact

http://www.au.org/take-action/report-a-violation/

[xmas74]

67. I never thought about them

I was just upset about her telling me all this. Now I really need to think about what to do next.

[provis99]

9. these nuts hate tampons because they see them as dildoes.

That's what I was able to wheedle out of one of them. The nuts think teenage girls are going around using tampons to pleasure themselves.

Sad, pathetic, perverse, and stupid, but about what I expect from the fundamentalist types.

[xmas74]

11. I made a comment once to one of them

about how I used sea sponges and they freaked out. I said something about how if I used maxi pads I'd just make my own glad rags, since they are reusable and more absorbent. The same woman freaked about the thought of making them yourself.

In other words, they want no contact with the human body whatsoever.

[PassingFair]

15. "Satan's Little Cotton Fingers!"

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0999/cotton.html

[xmas74]

27. I forgot all about that!

I used to crack up at that one.

[PassingFair]

30. Yep. It's all fun and games until you run into LUNATICS that actually feel that way...

The SCHOOL NURSE!

Egads.

[xmas74]

32. I'll be out purchasing slender/junior tampons this weekend.

Now it's about more than protection.

I informed her that the first couple of months it would be good to use pads, then switch over to tampons. By then the newness and for some "ick" factor should be gone.

[riderinthestorm]

44. My daughters ride horses competitively and the dressage phase of our sport requires white breeches

Of course my current 14 yr old daughter gets her first period and has a competition within the next 24 hours. These are virtually skin tight white "tights". So I'm hemming and hawing (she's 12 at the time), not trying to PUSH her into tampons but understanding that uhm, a bulky pad will be quite noticable.... (cough)

Thank gawd her older sister pulled her into the bathroom and explained or I have no idea what I would have said. Honestly, in all my dealings with my kids THIS was the most awkward and that's saying a LOT.

I only throw this out there to you since your daughter's a swimmer. Don't just assume you are going to have "a couple of months". Dammit of course for unlucky me, it just didn't play out that way with at least one of my girls.

[xmas74]

49. I'm hoping for a couple of months but

I know that might not happen for us. I gave her a couple of my old tampons that I keep in my purse for back up so she could see what they look like. (I'm at an age where I've noticed that, when I do have a period, the sponges don't always "catch" everything and I need something else, especially when away from home.) Anyway, she has completely taken them apart and checked them over, trying to figure them out. I also recently purchased one from a vending machine so she could see what an applicator looks like. (I use OB when I use a tampon so no applicators.)

I hope it's out of season but that's not the kind of luck we have.

[gkhouston]

45. I bought some pads and some slender tampons months before my daughter

had her first period. She hasn't shown any interest in the tampons yet, but that's her choice. When summer comes and she wants to go swimming, I expect she'll give them a try. I bought her a book about sex and puberty, assuming she'd want something to refer back to in addition to the conversations we've had. Judging by the condition of the book, it's been read a lot. :-)

[xmas74]

53. I purchased the American Girl book a couple of years ago.

It's simple and talks to them at a decent age level. She's about ready to move into something more complicated and in depth.

We also have pads around the house that are just for her. She has them in her closet so she always knows where they are.

[gkhouston]

62. Yeah, she had the American Girl "Care and Keeping of You" or something like that

first, too. Last year, I got her "It's Perfectly Normal: Changing Bodies, Growing Up, Sex, and Sexual Health". Some of the information about puberty is duplicated, but there's also some information about sex. In another couple of years, I'll probably get her something with more a lot more detailed information about contraception and sexual health, but she's only 10; I'm trying not to overwhelm her.

[xmas74]

64. I'll have to order the Perfectly Normal book.

My child is also ten so I don't want to overwhelm her yet but I want her to know some basics.

[gkhouston]

72. Amazon has it, or you might be able to find it locally. It doesn't have all the

info I could wish, but I think it's about right for 10-year-olds as a supplemental reference. I gave it to her because (as I told her) she can't make good decisions with bad information. I also told her that I had two friends in high school who got pregnant at age 12 because they didn't have the first clue about where babies come from, and that seemed to make an impression on her.

[xmas74]

77. We have a Hastings that I can site to store

whatever book I need.

I was in seventh grade science class, dissecting a frog, when my lab partner's water broke. She had told no one she was pregnant and hid it well as a heavier girl. I still talk to her on Facebook and plan on taking my daughter over to talk to her when she's a bit older.

[gkhouston]

79. That's an excellent idea. n/t

[alphafemale]

59. Thanks. Of thinking of searching for and posting this myself. nt

[pstokely]

69. Satan's Cotton Fingers

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0999/cotton.html

[polichick]

10. Don't worry, it's not your words that are suspect, it's the nurse's words...

This is only one of many times you'll have to tell your daughter that her "teachers" are full of shit.

(Don't forget to warn her about the propaganda she'll get in high school American History.)

[xmas74]

13. Nearly twenty years ago

I was originally a history major. I know all about propaganda. She's already getting it and we've discussed what really happened compared to what she is learning.

[Zoigal]

16. The "nurse" who did this definitely needs some re education.

Do you know if any of the other parents are aware of the info that
she gave the girls in the after movie discussion? Always helps if you
have some support when you take it to the school board, superintendent,
principal, etc. Don't let it rest....z (teacher for forty years).

[seabeyond]

21. i would address, too. i know the school well enough, and have already had issue with nurse

i could see me easily go in and having a conversation with nurse about... in pure? pain? making her adress these issues with an adult.

[xmas74]

33. I will be speaking with the nurse.

That's a promise.

[xmas74]

31. I'll look around

but I do know that Focus on the Family is very popular around my town. Lots of parents are really into that. I found out after the whole Lisa Whelchel/"Tabasco" controversy how many local parents support that crazy cult. And I know that quite a few on the school board are big fans of it too.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

19. I would complain to the school about that...

I only have boys so I won't get to talk about tampons (bummer :-( ).

[xmas74]

35. I would have no idea what to tell boys.

I guess I'm lucky it's a girl.

[Sheepshank]

22. There are simply some things that get to be cleared up at home.

Same goes with religion, and almost all other health and moral issues.

But I have to inject something I thought was pretty funny regarding school and health ed programs. I live a in VERY religious and conservative area. So naturally I assumed school ed would reflect that. Imagine my surprise when my 12yo daughter called me while her dad was driving her to a soccer game asking me for the term when "boys to those things at night with their penis".
Mom "Are you talking to your dad about this?"
DD "Yes, but he doesn't seem to know what I'm talking about"
Mom "Are you talking about masturbation?"
DD "No, the thing that happens when they are sleeping"
Mom "You mean like a 'wet dream'?"
DD "Kinda, I mean the medical term"
Mom "You mean nocturnal emissions?"
DD "Yes!, that's it!"
I hear dad roaring in the background...he's laughing so hard I hear him gasping for breath.
Mom "Honey, put daddy on the phone"
Dad "yes?"
Mom "What the hell kind of conversation are you having?"
Dad "She brought it up...but she was trying to tell me about "nightime intermissions" and I couldn't figure it out"

[seabeyond]

25. oh, that is so so funny. i love it

thanks for sharing. you did that well.

[xmas74]

36. Now that is funny. nt

[Kerrytravelers]

40. omg. That is hysterical!

:rofl:

[gkhouston]

63. LOL, my daughter asked me about wet dreams, too, but I noticed she did it

when her dad was not in the car. :-)

[seabeyond]

28. shoot. this is a pretty clean thread. you could let her read this thread

and it would give her a better and more rounded perspective.

[riderinthestorm]

34. +1 but she better do it quick before we descend into our usual depths, heh!

:toast:

[xmas74]

38. I know!

I'm shocked it's clean so far. No one has shown up to rain on the parade.

Maybe it's a topic that most here have similar views?

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. The ONLY bit of truth regarding that tampon is

that yes you might die IF... you do not change it often enough. There is a pretty nasty infection that can develop otherwise.

Toxic Shock Syndrome is something to be aware about

http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/toxic_shock.html

But not common, not by any stretch.

We medics in another country, at times were part of that class... as it were.

Gee golly we also talked of contraception with older kids too, and AIDS... my idea... I got no fracking clue if they still do that.

(Yes, not the fifth grades, but eight graders got the condom talk)

[xmas74]

55. Honestly, I think the condom talk should come sooner.

One of my classmates had her water break when we were in seventh grade since class dissecting a frog. She was a heavier girl and had told no one she was even pregnant.

We've had some talks but not in depth yet. That will start within the next year.

And TSS is very rare. As long as she keeps herself up the risk is very low.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. that was a whle ago...

these years it should be in fifth grade...

Hell, you should have seen the faces of the nuns... when I had that talk (again I hope) with my old enough to consent medics .

I will burn in hell for that I tell ya!

And yes TSS is extremely rare... as in so rare... but any woman getting a few other things like sponges, should be aware of it's symtoms...

[xmas74]

66. I use sea sponges

so I know the risk. I'd never have her use them until she's much older-for me it was right. Then again, I also know how long I can keep them in and how to keep them clean. In addition, I don't have as many periods anymore so they don't get as much use as they once did.

The condom talk is scary but what is scarier is a seventh grader coming home pregnant-or worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. I'll up it... having to deliver that baby

<-------- Now that is some scary shit.

Nine kids I caught, one had a cord around neck (this one)... oy... I got the docs on the radio screaming instructions.. baby and mom lived... but those were literally the scariest moments for this at the time 21 year old (at the time) so far. There were others later.

[xmas74]

80. I've given instruction over the phone

and that was a bit of a rush. (I used to be a dispatcher.)

I don't want to deliver a baby.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. It was a not fun call

As i used to tell my kids... delivering a baby can be very exhilarating, as long as everything goes fine (98% of moms, we are just cheer leaders)... it is the other 2% that are scary as shit.

[riderinthestorm]

71. I have the EASIEST way to have the "condom talk" evah! with your kids.

When my kids starting posing for pictures in middle school, instead of having them say "cheese" when they lined up for the photo, I'd say "use condoms!"

EVERYONE in the photo would crack up. I have the loveliest photos EVER of ALL my kids and their friends because instead of the stiff shots - boys unsmiling and girls grimacing as they held their stomachs in - they'd all be laughing.

I got my message across without being "preachy" (and got a good photo shot as well).

My older girl is 23 now and a couple of years ago on a fine summer day with our house windows open, someone driving a very fast car drove past our farm and hollered "use condoms!" My daughter and I were on the porch eating dinner when it happened and we looked at each other and burst into laughter.

Yes it was uncomfortable at first. Yes, it felt weird with all the other parents at first (who inevitably laughed too once they caught on), yes my kids were mad initially and told me how "uncool" I was, and to cut it out.

But still. I think it's a gentle, easy reminder for ANY age.

[xmas74]

73. I like that!

I wish it would work in my town.

[riderinthestorm]

82. Oh my dear, it most definitely did NOT work in my town.

Remember, this was Wheaton IL, Billy Graham's spiritual home.

While the parents may be disapproving, the kids "got it". And some parents actually did "get it" too.

But then I was heathen scum so it really didn't matter what I did or did not do so I could have some fun. Regardless, once it comes out of your mouth the first time and the initial cringe factor is over, it becomes much more fun for you. I'd smile blandly at the other parents who may be scowling at me and say "we wanted them to smile didn't we?"

[xmas74]

88. LOL!

Now that's funny.

And I'm heathen scum to some anyway, even though we belong to a local church. Her father and I are no longer together which makes me a bad influence in their eyes.

[riderinthestorm]

96. So wryly, I add, I didn't want to be friends with these parents either.

Please know that if you are trying to be friends with any of these families, you will instantly be added onto their shit list. There are only so many tolerant adults in fundyville.

But for me, I wasn't concerned. My real friends resided elsewhere and by middle school my girls had already figured out the "religious" dynamic and been "weeded out" from the hard core element (again, I remind you that in my town the non-religious were shunned since the first question asked was what church we attended). AWANA and other social/church groups had already decided my girls' fate so we proceeded without a whole lot of care.

Your mileage may vary. Good luck!

[musette_sf]

50. My dear Mom told me, 40+ years ago,

that if I used tampons I would "ruin" myself.

Oh, yeah, and 40+ years ago the common meme on menstrual cramps was "it's all in your head".

[gkhouston]

54. I never heard the "it's all in your head" meme until after I'd had my first period,

so I knew that meme was bullshit. I'd been told enough that I knew what periods were and didn't have any particular feelings about what was happening other than mild surprise (I was only 10 at the time), but I did have mild cramps the very first time. Considering that most OB/Gyns are male, how the hell would they know whether cramps are painful?

[xmas74]

56. The nurse is older.

I wonder if she is using the same info she learned all those years ago.

[musette_sf]

68. but if you were told this nonsense in, say, 1964,

what rock would you have had to be under to NOT know the facts by now?

(somehow I get the feeling that the "rock" is "Peter's rock", aka Church)

[xmas74]

70. It's a religious town

so that might just be the rock.

[pstokely]

84. It's also a college town

but a directional school

[Cerridwen]

52. Oh, and report the nurse to the state.

I know I said I'd butt out :blush: but I just noticed the discussion about the nurse.

She needs to be reported to the state nursing board; she's promoting 'religion' as science.

Here's a link I found; please notice there is a 'complaint form' link on the left of the page.

http://pr.mo.gov/nursing.asp

[xmas74]

57. I will definitely look that over!

Thanks!

[pstokely]

But the MO Board of Nursing might also be stacked with fundies?

and (Jay) Nixon is kind of a DINO

[pstokely]

85. But the MO Board of Nursing might also be stacked with fundies?

and (Jay) Nixon is kind of a DINO, this is assuming the "nurse" is even registered and not just some part time nurses aide like a lot of schools have

[Cerridwen]

92. Possibly. I figured xmas74 would have a better feel for that

than I do. I just wanted to get that link to her in case in might be a viable option.

[xmas74]

93. Nixon is a bit of a DINO

but he is a vast improvement over Baby Blunt.

And I wouldn't be shocked if the Board of Nursing were stacked, considering how hard some have tried to make it to obtain birth control.

[pstokely]

58. What area of MO is this?

Joplin?

[xmas74]

60. Sent you the town

in a pm.

[Odin2005]

75. Holy fuck, that "nurse" needs to be fired and banned from the healthcare field.

[xmas74]

81. It's scary. nt

[pstokely]

76. Who decides the sex-ed standards in MO?

If it's done at the state level, you could complain the state's Education department but they might also be filled with fundies?

[xmas74]

78. I don't know who decides.

I don't think there is an actual curriculum for the subject, since they were able to pick what movie they wanted to show.

[pstokely]

83. What movie did they show?

At my school (in the 90s), they showed some video by a pad maker.

[xmas74]

86. It was a brand new movie.

No pad maker this time, compared to the old movie. They didn't talk about pads in the movie, which surprised me.

[pstokely]

94. Too bad they didn't show this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDDcn0BroiY
probably more educational than anything from Focus on the Family

[xmas74]

98. Focus on the Family frightens me. nt.

[tammywammy]

95. This reminds me of the comic strip For Better or For Worse

[xmas74]

97. I love this!

I also found a clip on you tube that seems informative. They're teaching the girls the temporary toilet paper trick, which is very important to know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fySNheY5iag&feature=related

I'm bookmarking it so I can look around her site later.

[auntsue]

99. Check out the book "our bodies-ourselves" --

it;s been around a LONG time and gets updated often. Good info for women, also available in other languages, spanish that I know of and probably others. There are photos and diagrams. Perfect for mom;s and daughters. Take your girls to your ob-gyn or to planned parenthood. It may be a good thing that she learns to be aware that much of so called "date" is debatable. She'll be able to look beyond the bull and trust hem mom for the straight story or how to find it. Good job mom!!!

[xmas74]

100. I have a copy of that.

It's over twenty years old so I probably need something updated.

I plan on taking her to PP for more info.