"The very fact that they would seek such a job belies the underlying flaws in their character"

[apples and oranges]

"In other words, anyone who would seek a job intimidating and molesting other humans has something really, really wrong with their character. They have no honor. Refuse to associate with them on a local level, send a message. We are Americans, and we won't take this shit!"

Someone posted that about TSA agents on another board. Do you agree?

[Drale]

1. No I don't

At this point, most people are going to take any job they can. Its easy to stand back and say don't take that job, its "bad", but if you have a family to feed and keep a roof over, you will take any job you can get.

[trumad]

2. I say fuck you

To the person who wrote this.

Just the fact that they would write such shit shows me a shit bird character flaw.

[11 Bravo]

53. Yup, with a barbed wire dildo. You were too kind with "shit bird".

[Vincardog]

3. Say the same about prison guards

[inademv]

4. Absolutely not about TSA

But for debt collectors who use those tactics hell yeah. One cannot honestly hold TSA agents accountable for the bullshit "techniques" and "strategies" that they are forced to use in their jobs (unless one were an inconsistent jerkoff with no grasp of the real world).

[blondeatlast]

6. +1,111,111 nt

[elleng]

5. Its a b.s. assumption and, fwiw, I just did some traveling

and met and observed some very kind, professional and considerate TSA agents.

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. This being DU...

...based just on post's headline, I figured it was about politicians.

[RandomThoughts]

7. College and buisness can do that also.

Every step up in pemootion always requires a little more of 'system profit first'

The colleges that teach everyone selfish, or greed is good, or deception is correct. All that stuff, you wont make it through college, or high level in business if you don't slowly slide down those beliefs.

I do think many in many areas try to do better where they are, but there is a constant training in those systems.

[Viking12]

17. WTF?

Your post is unintelligible.

[RandomThoughts]

32. I understand it. although there was a typo.

Should I make it more clear

I am due beer and travel money, and many experiences.

Does that help?

[surrealAmerican]

9. Actually it says more about the lack of ...

... more respectable job opportunities in this country.

[villager]

10. it's disturbing that no TSA employees speak out about what they're "made" to do on the job

if enough of them did, things would change.

But -- it's always someone else's job to stand up to the current outrage and intrusion...

[blondeatlast]

13. You ever worked for near minimum-wage? Had to wear a name badge?

Deal with the public?

I have--in these hard times, I understand why they don't speak out. The last thing I want to do right now is look for work--but wait, I already am (and I'm a paraprofessional and a guild member that can demand a damn good salary).

[villager]

So then what *is* the line in the sand? Seriously? How much personal dignity do you ultimately

...fritter away?

Granted, these are hard times. How much silence do hard times buy?

[blondeatlast]

26. Every (imperfect) human being has to decide that for him/herself.

I work in the legal profession. Does every criminal, even if they are guilty, deserve a vigorous and thorough defense? If not, which ones do and which ones don't?

(Edit: I'm not an attorney.)

[villager]

50. so then other human beings are free to judge those who cave in to authority?

If everyone is judging for themselves, then, others are free to hold certain opinions or ideas about those who routinely give in to "the rules," at the cost of continually corroding democracy?

[blondeatlast]

51. Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion and only the judicial system

is required to hold the presumption of innocence.

You can have any opinion you want. Did anyone, including me, argue with that? BTW--it is an OPINION, not a judgment. Their fate is not directly in your hands.

[villager]

60. Ah no, but the point you're missing is that my fate could be in *their* hands

...when I'm traveling. Hence my views on what their carrying out the orders of the Fear State does to me, and my fellow Americans.

[blondeatlast]

11. Hmm... TSA workers want to unionize (which I fully support, btw).

And we have this posted on "other boards" and then repeated here.

Hmmm...

[maxsolomon]

12. i feel that way about the POTUS

BHO excepted, * included.

[necso]

14. belie: to show to be false; contradict

On another note, a real tragedy; my condolences to all the afflicted, bereaved.

[woo me with science]

39. Yes, someone should have looked up the word, "belies," in the dictionary.

The author was trying to say "betrays."

[Donnachaidh]

15. I thought the post was about politicians

it certainly can apply to some of them :evilgrin:

[BlueCheese]

62. Yup.

Sometimes I think that anyone who actively seeks power is not to be trusted.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. Where's the ourage been for DEA agents who drag cancer grannies off to jail?

I find this TSA-as-boogeyman stuff tiresome.

[leftstreet]

27. +1

[sinkingfeeling]

18. No.

[RandomThoughts]

19. TSA workers are like birthers or Tea party.

They been told what they have to do, and that it keeps people safe.

They are not asking if it is necessary, or if courage and freedom means sometimes bad stuff happens.

They are doing what they are told makes us safer.

[JuniperLea]

25. They are doing what they are told to make a buck...

It's hard for me to disagree with that.

I'm sure the majority of prostitutes would "give up" their "career" if offered a nice desk job in a clean office, regardless of the actual work.

Hunger and desperation do something to people.

[RandomThoughts]

33. You touch on how economic conditions can have a part in peoples situations.

Where society systems can get people to do more harm to themselves or others by what they are said to need, or what they have to do to get what they need.

In that the skimmers, and oppressors are guilty of great crime.

[blondeatlast]

34. Hunger and security are instinctual needs and cannot be overcome by reason.

reason and ehics only prevail when the needs for food and security are met to an appreciable degree.

[RandomThoughts]

41. Interesting.

Probably true for most people, but as you experience lack of security, you can learn to reason through it. You can override an instinctual action.

Much of that is learning though, and people should not have to learn how to do that.

That is where insecurity can be used against a population to keep them from being rational about decisions.

The use of fear to confuse a population, and get them not to see the wrongs going on is also used often.

[JuniperLea]

58. Indeed!

And that last point is rampant!

[uppityperson]

30. You assume a lot about a lot of people you do not know. You also place one thought

on a lot of different people which seems to be prejudgement.

[RandomThoughts]

37. I doubt I am being prejudgemental, but it would be justified.

I am showing they use the same thought process.


A birther 'believes' the birther issue, becuase someone said it was that way, and they have a lack of trust in the systems that says some thought or effect, and want proof there suspicions are not valid to prove to them that society is safe or as they think it should be.

A TSA believes someone might be trying to take down a plane, becuase someone told them it was that way, and they have a lack of trust in the people in line that say otherwise, and want proof there suspicions are not valid to prove to them that society is safe on a plane, like they think it should be.


My assumption is that they were actually frisking people, if that was true, I did not go to the airport to see, but if they were frisking children and old ladies to drive them through the irradiation scanners, they were not thinking.

I actually doubt that happened as reported.



On a side note, you accuse me of prejudging? is not a search of a passenger in line a prejudgment of their intent when on the plane? They have not done wrong? they are prejudged as possibly dangerous until searched.

So although I was talking of same thought process, and it applies to many groups, maybe all people, I got rules applied back even if that was judgmental as a defense of that statement.

Maybe all TSA are not like that, how would I know without searching them all with such a comment, even the obviously unoffensive of them.

:rofl: You should make that same argument to TSA.

[uppityperson]

54. "a TSA"? Do you mean someone working for the TSA or the TSA itself? Seems you are talking individual

individuals, yet saying everyone who works for TSA "believes someone might be trying to take down a plane, becuase someone told them it was that way, and they have a lack of trust in the people in line that say otherwise, and want proof there suspicions are not valid to prove to them that society is safe on a plane, like they think it should be"

In which case, yes. You are prejudging them. Some probably believe that, there are many who are simply working for the TSA, doing what they are told to do. Like there are many cubicle workers who work there not because they Believe but because it is a job.

Now, if you are talking the Transportation Security Administration, why they exist, that is a different story. But you don't seem to be.

It is very possible to work for a company yet not Believe in them. Yes, you are being prejudicial towards TSA employees.

[blondeatlast]

56. It's becoming apparent that we are going to have to make this distinction.

It's hard to believe that all of this renewed interest in the TSA and its workers is purely coincidental.

Indeed, it is very possible to work for something you don't necessarily believe in--I'm in the legal profession and I have to give my services to criminals that I KNOW are guilty--but they are just as entitled to a thorough and vigorous defense as those I'm certain are innocent. I don't always like it, but I'm never ashamed of my work because I'm honest and give my all to every assignment. In that regard, I'm no different than an honest, hardworking TSA worker.

Thank you for a great post, uppityperson. :thumbsup:

[Greybnk48]

20. Nope. n/t

[Generic Other]

21. Like others of their kind, they needed a job and thought this was a respectable one

Not the workers fault we don't agree with them. Take away the scanners and the patdowns. Let them return to simply wanding and checking our carry-ons. That is their level of competence. No one objects to these security measures. It is the "no fly " list, groping pat-downs and power trips by unqualified rent-a-cops that annoy many. Makes them seem like fascists when it is undoubtedly true that for many it is nothing more than a job. Like ICE or Border Patrol or Store security, etc.

[hlthe2b]

22. No. Of course not. That does not mean there are not real problems

and valid complaints, despite a flurry of posts from sites like alternet to make us think all such incidents were simply a RW plot to prevent TSA from unionizing (I strongly support TSA unionization, nonetheless). The latter has me aghast, given how it is being swallowed, hook, line and sinker.

Of course the vast majority of TSA are honorable hard working people required to follow policies over which they have no control. A small subset are problems--for whatever reason or motivation.

[silverweb]

23. RW propaganda.

AlterNet has a great article on this subject today:

Did You Fall for It? America's Outrage Over TSA Naked Body Scanners Was Right-Wing PR to Prevent Workers from Unionizing

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. No. Everyone compromises their values.

I have a commitment to my family. I also have a belief in the 4th amendment. If I refuse a job which serves the former because of the latter, I'm compromising. Everyone takes a different path through the minefield.

[leftstreet]

28. "someone posted" "on another board" - do you have a fucking link?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apples and oranges]

52. 4th page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14mKoAptaiw&feature=channel_video_title

[blondeatlast]

55. Of what? I don't click blind links, ever, not even on YouTube.

Thanks.

[Ship of Fools]

31. most definitely disagree

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apples and oranges]

48. we don't all live and breathe DU. sorry!

[blondeatlast]

49. Well, bless your heart. nt

[DirkGently]

36. No. My beef is with TSA policy & the ludicrous Nudie Scan. Not the workers.

[seabeyond]

38. my brother in law went thru the time-consuming process of applying. his comment, the fun in seeing

the naked woman.

he is young, immature, porn obsessed adn was not comforting. i was inwardly cheering when he didnt get the job

only tidbet i have. otherwise, clueless....

[Odin2005]

42. I agree completely.

Don't give me the "they are just doing their job" argument, that is an excuse. Anyone with a conscience would refuse to do this fascist shit.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

45. Most DUers don't go 'googling' anti-working class propaganda

But thanks for bringing it to our attention

:eyes:

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apples and oranges]

47. That propaganda is present right here on DU on all the "groping" threads

[Lone_Star_Dem]

57. I agree that they need a dictionary and perhaps some treatment for a personality disorder.

nt

[Modern_Matthew]

59. I can roll with that. The personalities associated with security-related jobs are rather disturbing.

EOM

[csziggy]

61. No I don't agree, though being put into a position of power can change how

People treat those under their power.

There was a rather famous psychology experiment, the Stanford Prison Experiment, in which students were randomly assigned roles as prisoners and guards. Given increasing amounts of control over the "prisoners" the "guards" became increasingly authoritarian and abusive.

Stanford Prison Experiment - http://www.prisonexp.org/ - This is an account of that study by one of the persons involved in it. While I had read about the study, I had not read a first hand account. This site is well worth reading. It puts into perspective many things that have happened in our society - prison riots, Abu Gharib, Guantanamo, TSA, police officers and more.

Edited to add: I think the situation CREATES the personality rather than a particular personality type being attracted to certain job situations. The Stanford Prison Experiment seems to support this idea.