credit question from 1997

[xmas74]

I just received a phone call from a credit agency stating that I had a loan from a company in 1997. I have never heard of the company before and I stated that over the phone. They want the full amount of the loan immediately, even though I stated that I am contesting the loan.

When I refused to make a payment plan (why-because I've never had a loan with this company) they stated that they will call me night and day until I make a payment. I stated that I wanted no further correspondence with this company via telephone, only through the mail. They stated that in Virginia that this law doesn't apply and that they will keep calling until I pay them, whether I dispute it or not.

Any idea what steps I should take?

[RagAss]

1. Call your local FBI office.

[xmas74]

3. What will that do? nt

[JanMichael]

5. keep them from getting an older person on the phone

and scaring them into signing away their life's savings.

[RagAss]

6. If you took no loan this is wire fraud....

[xmas74]

8. I stated that I do not remember this loan.

I also stated that this must be a new account, since it doesn't show on my report. They stated that they have reopened the account.

[JanMichael]

2. agree with the poster above-- FBI

Get the number, name of the person, etc.

Do NOT give them any information on the phone. Ever.

[xmas74]

7. I refused.

The name of the company is Portfolio Recovery. I have the names of the employee and the supervisor, of course only a "Miss So-and-So" and a probably fake first name.

[JanMichael]

9. Google them

they have many complaints. It's a scam. FBI...seriously.

[xmas74]

15. I just read that my state's Attorney General

has a complaint against them.

http://ago.mo.gov/newsreleases/2009/Fradulent_debt_collectors_scam_gets_busted/

[hobbit709]

17. They're a well known bottom feeder agency.

they buy up old debts for pennies on the dollar and try to collect the full amount. They routinely break the FDCPA. They are nothing but scum
Here is some info on them
http://www.budhibbs.com/collectorpages/portfolio_recovery_associates.htm

[xmas74]

20. He (the manager) stated

that I had no idea what I was talking about and I could shut up if I wasn't going to listen to him. He began to yell and scream at me. When I asked him to stop yelling so I could say something to him he stated that he had nothing else to say to me and then hung up.

[hobbit709]

22. Next time they call

Ask for their physical address location of their place of business. They'll try to con you into a PO Box but say you need the physical address of the place of business. When they ask why, tell them your attorney needs it to serve the papers. They will hang up and probably not call back after that.

[xmas74]

25. Now that is a thought.

That could be fun.

[QED]

4. You might try this

I found good information in the forums section on this site when I was hounded by an obnoxious attorney-collection agency for a debt that wasn't mine.

http://www.creditboards.com/mambo/

I did a search for the company you mentioned and found a number of reports about them:

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-6290044153964199%3Ae0mssy-xxmd&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=portfolio+recovery&siteurl=www.creditboards.com%2Fforums%2F

[xmas74]

26. Thank you.

I've been reading through this now.

[QED]

35. It's a lot of information to absorb

but hopefully will give you some ideas. I learned that the lawyer calling me was a total scumbag and had numerous judgements against his firm for fraud. I also learned how to get him to stop calling. I called the firm, gave them the phone number they'd been calling and they said they'd take me off the list. It worked temporarily. The calls would stop for 6 months or so then start up with yet another agency. they would never say in the message who they were calling for except once. Then I finally learned it was for someone whose name was similar. The cycle continued until I had my landline disconnected.

[wellstone dem]

10. Get a lawyer

This sounds like a collection agency. If so, they are violating the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act which is a federal law, and provides for attorneys fees. Also likely that the statute of limitations to collect the debt is long past.

[xmas74]

12. One, I don't remember this loan.

(Seriously. And the phone number they had for me from before was a number I've never had and from a place I never lived in.)
Two-I know the statute has expired.

[Enrique]

11. figure out a way to tape their calls

it sounds like they plan to make some calls that could be useful to you in a lawsuit where you win a lot of money.

[xmas74]

27. I need to do something.

Everything I've read says that what they do is illegal.

[demwing]

13. Virginia may not have a state law, but federal Law still applies

Start by reading the Fed regulations here:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre18.shtm

and you might want to search locally in your area for free legal aid clinics.

Good Luck!

[xmas74]

28. Thank you. nt

[RKP5637]

14. Sounds like a scam. Here I answer no phones unless I recognize the number. As someone

else said I would get the FBI involved, at least ask them for advice.

[xmas74]

29. I've read up about them.

They buy zombie debt for pennies and then charge through the roof, using threats against the persons involved. Turns out they don't even care if it's a legal debt or not. They just want their money.

[Contrary1]

16. Report them.

§ 805. Communication in connection with debt collection

"Without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a debt collector may not communicate with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt—

(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the consumer. In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, a debt collector shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a consumer is after 8 o’clock antimeridian and before 9 o’clock postmeridian, local time at the consumer’s location.

<snip>

§ 806. Harassment or abuse

A debt collector may not engage in any conduct the natural consequence of which is to harass, oppress, or abuse any person in connection with the collection of a debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(5) Causing a telephone to ring or engaging any person in telephone conversation repeatedly or continuously with intent to annoy, abuse, or harass any person at the called number.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf

[xmas74]

18. They've threatened to call me nonstop

so that would be harassment.

[RKP5637]

19. Take a look at this -

http://reportyourcomplaint.com/portfolio-recovery-associates-and-highly-illegal-fraudulant-debt-collection-practices/

[xmas74]

30. thank you! nt

[notadmblnd]

21. I would tell them that you think they are running a scam and that you are recording

every single call and you will be turning it all over to the attorney general of your state. Make sure to request their full names, the name of the company and proof that this bill is yours. Get a copy of your credit report (they should have everything, probably for the last 15 years) and see what is on it. You should not under any circumstances send them any money. Once you send them money, it's admitting that you owe them.

on edit; here are the result from googling the company name.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Portfolio+Recovery&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[xmas74]

31. They will not get one penny from me.

I've read about them and it turns out my attorney general has issued complaints, specifically using their name.

[Exilednight]

23. Next time you recognize the caller ID answer the phone: "Thank you for calling the Organization for

Americans Fighting for Consumer Rights, how may I direct your call?"

I ran into the same problem with some company that claimed to be trying to collect on an old cell phone debt. They stopped calling after that.

[xmas74]

32. Now that's funny! nt

[Drale]

24. Record you phone calls if the law allows it

that way if you ever have to go to court you have proof of verbal assault.

[xmas74]

33. I believe it's legal

as long as I notify them that I am recording.

[struggle4progress]

40. Code of Virginia. Title 19.2 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE.

Chapter 6 - Interception of Wire, Electronic or Oral Communications
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC19020000006000000000000

§ 19.2-62. Interception, disclosure, etc., of wire, electronic or oral communications unlawful; penalties; exceptions ...
B ...
2. It shall not be a criminal offense under this chapter for a person to intercept a wire, electronic or oral communication, where such person is a party to the communication or one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception ...
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-62


Virginia Recording Law
Virginia's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. Virginia makes it a crime to intercept or record any "wire, oral, or electronic communication" unless one party to the conversation consents. Virginia Code § 19.2-62. Therefore, if you operate in Virginia, you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to the conversation or you get permission from one party to the conversation in advance. That said, if you intend to record conversations involving people located in more than one state, you should play it safe and get the consent of all parties ...
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/virginia-recording-law

[karnac]

34. a couple tips.

1. don't pay or OFFER to pay a penny. There is a statute of limitations that also applies. usually about 7 years. IF you pay a penny, that means you acknowledge at least part of the debt and the statute of limitations starts all over again.

2. IF you by FEDERAL law request them(via registered mail) not to contact you any more except by mail, they MUST comply or face a massive fine each time they call after. I think it's about 1500. There is actually somebody that make a living just waiting for collection agencies to call. read up on this....

3. the paperwork that *might* have existed on this old debt is most likely all gone,out of date and wrong. THis almost always happens when debts are transferred to a collector a couple times over the years. so
a. don't give them ANY information that makes their job easier to hastle you. not even to update.
b. challenge them to see you in court and sue you. they won't. not worth their time and money.


4. The moral issue. Keep in mind on a debt this old, the entity/person you *might* have owed WILL NOT get a penny. he/she sold this debt to a collector for pennies on the dollar. that collector probably traded/sold that debt to another by now and so on and so on. The final collector will keep ALL the money.

5. if this just a credit card,old auto service,towing or similar, you are VERY safe. take care if it is something government involved(student loan).

[anneboleyn]

36. Yes, do not give them ANY information about you.

No address, certainly no social security number, credit card numbers, or bank information. Do not take any action unless you receive a hard copy in the mail of a document showing that you actually took out this loan. If this is legitimate, the company should do this. If this is a scam, they will try to get you to pay them over the phone without providing physical proof. As other posters have stated, do not answer the phone when this company calls you (just look at the caller ID or screen your calls). Have you checked your credit report recently to see if this has been reported? A legitimate loan would have a paper trail.

[xmas74]

38. I just checked it

and there is no report of it on the report.

They are attempting to scam me. I'm just mad that they've threatened me.

[xmas74]

37. They said it was for an old auto loan.

I've never had an auto loan in the amount they listed and I've never defaulted on an auto loan. In 1997 I didn't have one-I had paid off my vehicle in 1995.

[spooky3]

39. Send them a certified letter or fax, with a text like the following. I did and the calls stopped.

In my case, the bottom feeders were seeking a person with a name similar to mine. The last pgh. would probably remain the same for you.

Everything I said in the letter is true, i.e., don't tell them you're on the Do Not Call list unless you are; I had gotten dozens of calls like this from other companies like this, so I had to write multiple letters, and I had no interest in being sweet and nice. Your mileage may vary. Do Not Call.gov is designed to protect against telemarketers and not debt collectors, but because I had no guarantee that the person/robot calling was actually one versus the other, I covered both bases. You could omit the donotcall info, since you had a personal conversation with the company rep. and know it's about a phony debt.

* * *

(my return address & date)


Corporate Headquarters XXXXX, Inc.
XXX XXXXXX Drive
City, State zip

Re: 1-xxx-xxx-xxxx (their number)

To Whom It May Concern:

I have received at least XXX illegal recorded telephone solicitation calls from you to my home number at xxx-xxx-xxxx. It was not difficult to find your company’s identifying information on the web, because a search by your phone number revealed that you have caused trouble for many other people.

My number has been on the Do Not Call list for quite some time and I have begun recording and reporting your intrusive and unwanted calls to www.donotcall.gov.

Your recorded message and the web info suggests you are calling about a debt, but I do not owe you or anyone else, nor have I ever done business with you. Possibly you, like other lazy and irresponsible debt collectors, have mistaken my number for that of someone with a somewhat similar name but who does not live in MyCity, MyState, who may or may not have a legitimate debt. Rather than taking the trouble to identify the correct phone number for that person, or having a live human (who could listen) call or write a letter that would facilitate correcting your error, you are externalizing your work at my expense by making illegal robo-calls requesting that I call you back. These are extremely annoying and they must stop immediately. It has taken more of my time and money to send you this letter.

Further, this is to advise you that pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (”FDCPA”) 15 USC 1692c(c), you are hereby notified to immediately terminate any contact with me, or any members of my family or household, regarding any matter concerning the collection of a debt you allege is owed to your company or to your principal/customer/client. This notice shall include, but is not limited to written correspondence, as well as telephonic communication. This letter also verifies that I live at the address above, therefore, any further locator attempts would be a violation of the FDCPA.

Sincerely,

spooky3

[karnac]

41. Something here REALLY concerns me....

From reading this thread and clicking on the links, they are clearly trying a new tactic. that generates a profit, or more exactly, reduction of their tax liability, at the expense of *yours*.

Here is how it works.

Say they have a $ 1000 *debt* they bought from somebody for 10 dollars. They can't collect from you so they declare they just had a LOSS of 1000 to the IRS. this is done with a form 1099C.

How do they benefit? say the business is in a tax bracket of 30 percent. That *LOSS* just saved them $300 in taxes! True, once they have wiped out all their tax liability, they cant make money with this scam. but this is still money they would not have otherwise.

How do you lose? say you are in an income tax bracket of of 30 percent. that 1099C says you GAINED$1000 from them. you have to pay the IRS $300!!

Isn't that neat? turn 10 bucks into 300$! like magic!

Now i know nothing about 1099C, but as a contractor i know that my customers now by law have to have use a 1099 to declare how much money they spent on me. so i don't cheat the irs and they can declare an expense. One caveat. they NEED my tax ID or social security number to do so.

Don't give it to them.

the 1099C form...

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099c.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099ac.pdf

Some discussion of the legality...
http://www.creditinfocenter.com/wordpress/2009/07/13/can-a-collection-agency-issue-a-1099-c-for-settled-debt/

Some advice...
http://www.collectorsexposed.com/forum/index.php/topic/3636-pra-1099-c-scam-begins-anew/

It's pretty clear you would win in court on this scam. that's why they give up so quick when challenged.

Yet they seem to be able to put the burden on you to fight it. either with them to cancel the 1099 or convince the IRS that you are not liable.

What scary is that it has me thinking in so many evil ways.

Say I am a tax cheat who owes a million bucks to the irs. All I have to do to cancel it is buy a million bucks of REALLY REALLY bad(the worse the better) debt for a 1000-10,000 bucks. Don't bother trying to collect. just send them all 1099Cs and BOOM! im off the hook to the irs!

[xmas74]

45. I've read quite a bit about that

and this company is known for doing it. If this happens I will fight, for the principle. I have no plans to take any of this lying down.

[JFN1]

42. It's called "zombie debt"

and you have no legal obligation to pay it. If the debt is older than 7 years, it cannot be legally reported to credit agencies, and it cannot be legally collected - unless you agree to pay it.

NEVER talk to these agencies more thn once. As soon as you determine it is illigitimate, hang up. when they call back, hang up again. the third time they call back (and they will call back) hang up and dial the operator, and report the number as harrassing, and ask it to be blocked from your phone. Most landlines these days offer call blocking - use this, too.

The authorities mostly don't give a shit about this stuff - so don't waste your time unless you are physically threatened. Then call the police and report it - otherwise, do all you can to avoid them - eventually they will go away, because THEY HAVE NO LEGAL GROUNDS TO COLLECT ANYTHING FROM YOU.

One more thing - every time they call you back after you tell them not to, they are subject to a $1000 fine - for each act - as this is a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Know your rights - while they last - they are really your only protection from these types of scam artists.

[xmas74]

44. They've already stated that they can call, whether I

orally request or if I request via mail. If they do decide to call back I will send them a cease of communication.

I have no plans to help them out. This isn't even my debt!

[salin]

43. scammers.