Dammit, I don't see why people dump on Wal-Mart so much.

[Archae]

I shop there. At least 2-3 times a month.

Let me give you an example of their prices.
Generic Excedrin, (their brand,) $4 for 2 100-pill bottles.

I live in a town with 50,000 people, and we have two Supercenters.
One on each end of town.

I buy toilet paper there.
Cleaning stuff.
Groceries.
Videogames.
CD's.
Blank CD's and DVD's.

And all at prices I can afford, since I'm on a fixed income, (SSI,) and don't have much.

Maybe I don't go to the "Mom and Pop" places anymore, mainly because I got screwed by "Mom and Pop" a few times.

Now Wal-Mart will have a new service, have all your stuff ordered on-line, it gets delivered to you.
About $5 for the delivery.

Do they even deliver pizza anymore from local pizza joints?

[Incitatus]

1. I'm running out of popcorn tonight. nt

[Angry Dragon]

19. ................

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Atman]

41. You buy medicine from people who melamine in baby formula?

Dear lord. Bad enough to be wiping your ass with toilet paper from God-knows-where, but MEDICINE? The Chinese have absolutely no concept of quality control. Stuff at Wal Mart is cheap for a reason. You could be literally poisoning yourself...but at least you saved 79 cents.

[Luminous Animal]

2. The business model is to bully everyone to the race to the bottom.. their employees,

their suppliers, and their government.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Yes my local pizza join still delivers

We don't order since I am highly allergic.

the problem with Wally mart are the externalities. You are not paying for the cost of that excedrin, but you are in other ways. For example, every time an employee from, Wally Mart goes to the ER... and YOUR CITY has to pick up the tab.

For the record if they actually paid living wages to their employees, and... benefits, could you afford average, 12 more bucks a year?

[Archae]

5. Around here...

The only places that pay benefits anymore are union factories like Sheboygan Paint Factory, or Johnsonville Meats.

We need Obama's original helath plan.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. yeah but serious a study cited by the hartmann show

stated that if all Wally Mart employees had their pay raised to 12 bucks an hour and got health care, it would raise YOUR AVERAGE cost 12 bucks a year.

As is you are paying for it, as I said, every time one goes to the ER, for example, or is on food stamps.

Incidentally they would be able to spend more money too.

You asked why people ragg on them. I just gave you ONE reason. I am glad you get your stuff cheap, but you are paying for it.

As to labor, CARD CHECK... and UNIONS, that is what we need... and we will have to bleed for it AGAIN. Partly due to that penchant for lower prices. No, it is not you, most people are not connecting those dots YET.

[freshwest]

69. +1,000

[Codeine]

32. Not quite making the connection, are you? nt

[999998th word]

73. Johnsonville brats are on the boycott list

Heavy donations to walker and repub recall candidates in Wi.

[Cerridwen]

4. First, speaking for myself, I'm 'dumping' on walmart...not you.

I understand completely why people shop at walmart.

Second, I'm old enough to remember when walmart stocked made in the USA; then Sam died and the kids took over.

Third, they've destroyed small businesses in the name of the "free market" while creating a monopoly.

Fourth, because of their monopoly in many places, there are no alternatives for quality goods at reasonable prices but only that which walmart sells.

Fifth, they are the antithesis of a free market business.

Sixth, a lot of their growth has been done on the taxpayers' dime; special tax rates, property rates, etc. They make so damned much money, why the hell do they need my tax dollars?

Seventh, they are typical, emblematic of socialized risk and privatized profit. That doesn't sit well with me.


Others will have other reasons.

[BillyJack]

14. +1000

very well explained. :thumbsup:

Every one of those points (and more) are valid and should be well understood by the public, and especially, the Walmart shopper.

An educated CITIZEN cares where their dollars are spent/who makes money off of their hard earned dollars, b/c that will come back to affect their/your life in a very real way.

A CONSUMER only cares about saving $1.00 on a bottle of aspirin. ("Consequences? I don't see no d*mn stinking consequences!" - that's how a 'consumer' thinks.)

[Cerridwen]

26. And, continuing your premise, there is a 3rd type...

those who have no option. Either no money with which to be choosey or no alternative stores from which to buy.

Those who have the money and the options are the ones who need to fight for those who have neither. Preferably while not being smug or looking down their nose at those who have neither option. Oh, this is not directed at you specifically. It has to do with the OP's replies posted further down the thread as well as a general attitude that creeps into some "liberal" discussions.

edit typo

[DCKit]

37. "...they are typical, emblematic of socialized risk and privatized profit."

That pretty much covers all the implications of their business model - wages, health insurance, taxation....

Well stated!

[HopeHoops]

46. I remember when WalMart was "Bring it Home to the USA" and "Look for the Union Label".

That shit's out the window.

[blondeatlast]

6. What does your downtown look like?

Do you still have a downtown?
If not, do you ever ask yourself why not?

If you live in a suburb, have you ever been in a small town that didn't have a Wal-Mart? v. one that does?

[Archae]

15. Our downtown...

Went to hell years before Wal-Mart ever got first built here.

The "Plaza 8," a brick walkway encompassing 8th St from Pennsyvania Ave all the way to Ontario Ave, was a fiasco.
Even the Walgreens on the Plaza went out of business.

The city paid out scads of $$$ in medical payments to people injured by the brick walkway heaving up.

8th St is now open, and is slowly recovering, with mostly specialty shops.

[Katarina]

42. Daytona Bch, Fl

When I was younger downtown was awesome. Everyone shopped there, Christmas was magical with Santa in the Park, music piped over speakers. There was the Sears store and the Woolworths. A really fun place.

And then the mall opened. There was no Wal-Mart. There was the Volusia Mall. That was the end of downtown as I remembered it.

Wal-Mart had no part in that.

[Codeine]

7. All those low prices are predicated on

repulsively low wages and vile business practices.

[hlthe2b]

8. Dammit, I don't see why people DON'T dump on Wal-Mart much more...

I understand the point you are trying to make, but you could never convince me that it is not a bargain with the devil. The negative trade-offs are not always immediately apparent but when they are, it is too late.

[underseasurveyor]

11. ++++++++++++1000

I REFUSE to shop at Walmart. I'll do without if need be.
I loath that place with a passion!

[Codeine]

9. There's a great documentary called "WalMart, the High Cost of Low Prices"

or something very close to that. Do yourself a favor and watch it.

[BillyJack]

16. Heh....I just tried to google it to find it for the OP....take a look

at what shite comes up in the top returns. The Walmart IT team has got 'search optimization' covered on this one.....unfortunately. :-(

on edit: It's correctly called SEO (Search Engine Optimization).

[white_wolf]

10. You know whenever I need a good example of the problems that arise from capitalism and

I'm tired of pointing at Wall Street, Oil companies, and the MIC, I point to Wal-Mart, because they are in some ways as bad as the others I mentioned, well except the MIC. I don't even want to think how many lives those fuckers have ended.

[Hugabear]

12. Where to start? Cheap foreign goods, minimum wage jobs, anti-union, local business killer...

Run a small hardware store? Better hope that a Walmart doesn't open near you.

By their reliance on cheap foreign goods, how many US jobs have disappeared over the years?

How about Walmart's staunch anti-union stance?

Or how about the way they hire for low wages, part-time hours?

[Ron Green]

13. Shopping at Wal*Mart is ignorant, if you're not aware, and selfish if you are.

There's no reason to make a bargain with that devil other than to shave pennies off some things and buy other things that are crap you don't need.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hugabear]

20. For some of us, we don't have much choice. Doesn't mean that we have to like it.

Do you think most DUers who perhaps have limited income enjoy having to shop at Wal-mart simply because they can't really afford to shop anywhere else? Or how about DUers who live in areas where Walmart is practically the only place to go?

Just because some of us might shop there from time to time doesn't mean that we have to like it, or that we can't comment on Walmart.

[Archae]

25. There's also "Liberal snobbery"

Liberals who look down their noses at those who don't have much money, so they have to shop at Wal-Mart or Big Lots.

[Luminous Animal]

27. Most of the liberals I know buy used. And they don't have a lot of stuff. And

they share things, like tools, with their liberal neighbors instead of thinking that each and every household needs to own each and every thing.

[freshwest]

70. I have heard of them on media, but never meet them in real life.

[hlthe2b]

22. Nope... No one in my household has stepped foot inside for >15 years.

We do without if we can't get it/afford it elsewhere.

[Cerridwen]

23. I presume you purchased your crystal ball from walmart?

It may be broken.

I can't speak for everyone here (something you might want to consider), but I understand that those who have money and can shop elsewhere will, those who can't afford otherwise will shop as they can, and those who have no options will shop at those places, whether walmart or otherwise.

Rather than taking pot-shots at the people who do what they can and/or need to to survive, why don't you look up. That 'golden shower' you're getting, is not for *your* enjoyment. Which reminds me, I think walmart has KY on sale this week.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Funny, the only time I am forced to go there

is when I travel to Mexico City... where it is the wet dream for the US...

Here, I avoid them like the plague

[Luminous Animal]

30. I've been to Mexico City many times and I've never been forced to shop at Walmart.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Did you go to Aurrera?

What about dining at Vips? Those are just two of the chains they own.

So yes, if you need something fast from the formerly independent store from up the block, like fresh cream... that's where you go.

We usually go to Suburbia, when parents go to coffee. Wallmart is in talks to absorb them too.

[Codeine]

31. I've never shopped there.

Why would you assume most of us shop at WalMart?

[Paradoxical]

34. I haven't shopped at Walmart in years.

[Archae]

21. I live in an economically depressed town.

It's nowhere near as bad as Detroit or that other Michigan town being taken over, (forgot the the name,) but the biggest places still operating are Sheboygan Paint, Johnsonville Meats, and Wal-Mart.

And this isn't Wal-Mart's fault.

We had economic fiascos like the "Plaza 8" years before Wal-Mart came here.

But the local Trilling True Value hardware store is still on the corner of 10th and Michigan, where it's been for decades.

Suscha News, a Mom-And-Pop magazine store is still on 8th St, where it's been for decades.
The deli next door to Suscha News is still where it's been for decades.

[Chris_Texas]

28. They are America's largest employer

And compared to MOST jobs in America these days, Walmart is a fantastic place to work and you are lucky to get a job there.

Yeah, it sucks, but that's what happens when you export all the jobs.

[kentuck]

44. They are also America's largest "unemployer"..

A lot of American jobs are lost because of Walmart.

[BillyJack]

63. walmart may be america's biggest employer....but that BY NO MEANS,

WHAT-SO-EVER means that it is the BEST employer.

And there is NO WAY IN HELL that walmart will ever give enough money or benefits that I (or anyone) should EVER say "I am *luckY* to be employed by walmart"

[emilyg]

29. I shop there at least

once a week. One has to survive.

[dkf]

33. Is there really a difference between Walmart, Kmart, Target and CVS?

[joshcryer]

38. Price-wise, indisputably.

[dkf]

45. I think they jack up all the prices here.

I shall have to compare.

[MyrnaLoy]

35. I'll stand with you.

While I never shop there myself I will never judge those who have to price shop. I can afford to shop local now but for a time in my life I had to shop carefully or do without. I won't judge or condemn you, I support you. While our needs are different, our hopes and dreams are the same.

[JI7]

36. what do you mean you got screwed by mom and pop ?

and there are many mom and pop stores . you saying you got screwed at all of the ones you went to ?

[Gilligan The Younger]

39. Pizza?

Look... I feel your pain. I am surrounded by a bunch of liberal, thinking jerks who do not understand my pain. Holy fuck!

[provis99]

40. God bless WalMart! Fuck Mom and Pop stores.

Thank god for the great american megacorporation! Our lives would be shitty and incomplete without WalMart crap!

[kentuck]

43. Fuck all those jobs lost because of Chinese exports...

mostly to Walmart. Cheap prices do not come without a cost.

[provis99]

65. I was being sarcastic.

[madmom]

48. Our local mom & pop store

goes to walmart to buy their inventory, takes it back, marks it up and sells it. I worked at walmart, my daughter worked at the local mom & pop shop, we know, without a doubt this is what they did. So why should I pay more at the mom & pop for the same exact thing?

[RandomThoughts]

52. That is easy to explain.

Because the long range effect of 'efficiency of size' is monopoly, then no competition, then setting by edict.

Same thing with world government not by democracy, or two party system that forms backroom deals.

The wrong is the the smaller store supporting monopoly systems. That is the same as giving your power by appeasement.

They only see the monetary price, not the effects.

So you should not shop at either.


Also Wallmart uses cult tactics on its employees, and data gathers on its customers. It also uses censorship, and other methods for social control.


You are asking the question where cost of goods is all that matters, as is the smaller store, if they supported those that use 'efficiency of scale' as the dominating factor.

Break up the consolidations.


Why not have one grocery chain, one finacnial system, one of everything with complete control over price and setting of worker conditions. Big Oil, Big Steal, Big Coal. That is what that was.

And if they work with agreements about how they censor, or how they set prices, then that is what they do.

[w8liftinglady]

49. U nfortunately,in Texas, Walmart has ruined tons of small businesses

Family-owned shops are almost non-existant anymore in smaller Texas towns... the strip malls are pretty much Walmart,Pay-day Loan,Pawn Shop,Dollar general...from county to county.
Walmart ran the small shops out of business,then began slowly raising their prices.
The quality of their imported shit is far inferior to American-made products.
They intimidate their staff into working for minimum wage- and fire them if they dare complain about working conditions.
Our Walmarts in Dallas,Ellis,and Henderson Counties almost all employ adults with dependents...yet provide no benefits unless they are full-time.
They escape giving fulltime benefits by classifying the employees as "Part-time" and working them full time.

Yes- in Henderson County,there isn't much else.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

72. yep that is Texas.

I have to drive 20 miles to wallyworld just for groceries.

We have a Subway sandwich store (can get healthy stuff there) and a Dollar General. And three convenience stores. I wouldn't trust any of the local non-chain restaurants.

If I want to go to Target, it would be 80 miles. Costco is 150 miles away.

I heard from a guy on our local city council that the local merchants, the ones that are left, do not want any competition. This town has 1400 people. That they did not want the Subway restaurant to come here. And he said the Baptists have all the power.

Of course, this town has lots of drug users and convicted felons. A few years ago the police chief was busted for making and selling meth. The cops don't even go after the methheads, from what I heard.

[Aerows]

50. If Walmart actually paid their people

and offered benefits that people could afford, instead of encouraging them to go on welfare so that the taxpayers have to pick up the tab, they probably wouldn't get dumped on so much. Well, except for the fact that they are responsible for the outsourcing of millions of jobs to China.

[madmom]

55. When I worked at a walmart deli about 5 years ago..

I worked part-time, my choice, I made $10 an hour, I was NOT the highest paid employee of said deli. Around these parts $10 an hour for a part-time deli jobs is pretty freaking good wages considering kroger was paying about 50 cents above minimum wage as was meijer, for doing the exact same job. I had a pretty decent job at walmart and would work there again over the others if need be.

[AtomicKitten]

51. Good news Wisconsin! Costco has stores in Middleton and Grafton.

http://www.mystore411.com/store/list_state/1/Wisconsin/Costco-store-locations

[SalviaBlue]

53. Resistance is Futile. We will all assimilate eventually.

I still refuse to shop at walmart. But the choices around here continue to diminish.

[totodeinhere]

54. The criticisms of Walmart's business practices that I have read in this thread are valid. However,

I disagree with the contention that Walmart shoppers are "selfish." Is it selfish to do what is necessary to survive in this economy? I just paid $80 to fill up my gas tank. Now am I going to a mom and pop store to pay 40% more for my groceries, or am I going to Walmart where I just might be able to afford to buy enough food so that I don't go hungry? Am I selfish? I don't think so.

[GoCubsGo]

56. I'm glad I have other choices.

We have several grocery store chains, including Aldi, in my town. With the help of a couple of "extreme couponing" sites, I can get MUCH better prices at these stores than I can at Walmart. At the chains that double coupons, I can often get items for free or next to nothing. And, at one of the chains, I can get marked-down produce and meat that is still better quality than what I have seen at the Walmart. And, Aldi usually has the best prices on most items without coupons, granted, their selection is more limited. And, they have the best chocolate in town, and also the cheapest.

[Fire Walk With Me]

57. See that film on Wal Mart, what is it, "The high cost of low prices"?

Wal Mart is a virus.

[Obamanaut]

58. I wonder if some of the 'buy American, support union' crowd is in this

earlier thread asking for car advice, where many were touting...... wait for it.....imported vehicles, not made in USA, not union made.

In that thread a very small number suggested some of the US vehicles. Many extolled the virtues of the imports they own.

Truth be told, I bet the cars of some of those import owners could be found in a Walmart parking lot from time to time.

Places like my town, if one wants something like work boots or baby furniture, WM is the only place that has it. There are only three grocery stores, and WM is one of them.

The closest town to the east is 26 miles, to the south about 30, to the north 50, and to the west about 50. There are not many alternatives. With gas at $4/gal, I'll go to the closest place available.


The earlier thread re cars
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=883103

[gauguin57]

59. Let me count the ways ...

Uh ... they had to be shamed into doing anything about their well-known security problems and all the rapes and carjackings in their parking lots across the country ... by a documentary film!

Uh ... locking employees in at night to prevent what they assumed would be mass thievery (I know that's old news, but still ...)

Uh ... destruction of Main Street.

Uh ... unabashed support for all things right-wing.

It's your choice to pick low prices over support for locally owned businesses. I'm broke, so I understand where you're coming from. But I'll go without rather than shop at Wally World. Seriously ... I'll go without aspirin for my headache before I'll buy it at Wal-Mart.

[Phoenix63]

60. I was going to ask if you are assuming people who are

"dumping" on Wally World are dumping on you. After reading the replies, apparently some are. Yikes.

I fault no one for doing what they have to do to survive and that includes shopping at Wal-Mart.

But... they are like a virus, they spread from town to town putting smaller businesses out of business, selling cheaply made junk that is affordable at the moment but is so poorly made that it needs to be replaced constantly.

Wal-Mart is doing no one any favors and I find it sad that many people have no other options.

[DainBramaged]

61. Baby butt wipes are superior to toilet paper

[Courtesy Flush]

62. Mom and Pop are not all they're made out to be.

If you've ever worked for a small mom and pop store, you now that most of them only allow advancement through nepotism. They don't offer any benefits, and the pay is not good. You might as well work at Wal Mart.

If you're a customer, you'll find a very small selection, and prices you can't afford.

If there were no big box stores here in my small town, I'd have to drive 25 miles to find the things I need. Even the larger local businesses, like the building materials place down the road, don't stock what I need much of the time, so I end up at Lowes. I've tried to give them my business, but they just don't have what I need.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Courtesy Flush]

66. Okay, which part is inaccurate?

Are you saying there's no nepotism in local businesses? Are you saying they offer benefits (maybe they do where you live)? Are you saying the local building supply place really does have what I went there for, even though they told me they didn't?

There's a store in my town that seems to hire vulnerable workers (I work in social services, and single moms in my caseload have worked there). Every payday, the owner makes up some excuse why he's cutting their pay. He'll tell them they were short on the cash register three days ago (never tells them on the day it happens, when they can count it for themselves). One of the women I know quit and went to work at McDonald's. The other one now works at a nursing home.

This isn't true for all local businesses, and I never said it was. All I'm telling you is what I see with my own eyes. YMMV.

[tsuki]

68. I have noticed an UP WalMarts, down small biz on other blogs

all day. I think it has something to do with the drop off in their end of month sales.

[Zoeisright]

67. Because the family that owns it is super rich and they pay their employees shit.

With no benefits. And they drive small businesses out of business. AND they are now trying to attract the gun porn crowd. AND their stores are gross. And the family that owns it is super repuke.

[Fuzz]

71. Damn, I just don't fucking get DU anymore. WTF is happening?