VT lawmakers face decision on including health coverage for illegal immigrants

[cali]

MONTPELIER, Vt. — A Vermont legislative panel has begun meeting to work out differences between versions of a bill designed to move the state toward a single-payer health care system.

The panel met Friday, with the House making proposals for changes in the Senate-passed bill. But several of the more controversial provisions were left for meetings slated to begin Monday.

Among them: a Senate amendment that would bar illegal immigrants from being covered by Green Mountain Care.

A group supportive of the bill wants that amendment stripped, saying coverage is needed for thousands of immigrant workers, particularly on Vermont dairy farms.

<snip>

http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/story/a536271571394a9bb171b446fbc03970/VT--Health-Care-Immigrants/

[Vincardog]

1. If they cover migrant workers will they cover me?

[cali]

4. if you move to vermont.

[jody]

2. IMO illegal aliens are entitled to a free, fast, one way trip out of our country. NOTHING MORE! nt

[cali]

3. I disagree. that's not even practical.

and I find the phrase "illegal aliens" offensive.

[jody]

7. And the majority of voters are offended by illegal aliens. n/t

[Lance_Boyle]

25. How is it impractical? Assuming the illegal aliens are employed,

you simply fine the employer an amount sufficient to cover deportation costs, plus a punitive amount on top of that so they think twice before doing it again. For illegal aliens who are not employed, use some of the leftovers from the punitive illegal employer fines to deport them. Illegal aliens should not be welcomed with open arms - they are a net negative for society.

And if you find the proper legal term for these people offensive, well that's just your little problem, isn't it?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Upton]

11. +1000

[TheFarseer]

40. you're a brave man to say that here

but for the record, I'm with you.

[Unvanguard]

42. How many people are you willing to have die from treatable diseases

in order to get your way?

[pampango]

5. Once you start excluding "thems" from coverage, where do you stop?

Each politician is going to have their favorite (or least favorite) group of "thems" (those with preexisting conditions, those needing abortions, foreign students, legal immigrants, those on welfare, etc.) that they would like to exclude to save money or score political points with some group of voters.

If the purpose of a single-payer system is to provide universal coverage, that won't happen if a bunch of "thems" are excluded. The last I heard, "thems" can spread contagious diseases and show up uninsured at hospitals just as much as "us legals" can. I may or may not like all the groups of "thems" that there are out there, but I'm not inclined to deny them universal medical care that should be a human right, just because they fall into one of my "them" groups.

[cali]

6. I don't agree. I'm actually for covering undocumented workers

who live in Vermont, but I think it's a real stretch to say that those with preexisting conditions etc won't be included.

the point is cover all vermonters- not everyone who so much as steps foot in the state. we do have to pay for it you know.

and where do you live?

[jody]

10. Then use your money, not mine to covering undocumented workers. I have as much right to decide how

my money is spent as a pregnant woman does to decide how her body is used.

I'm pro-choice on abortion and I'm pro-choice on spending my money.

To be otherwise IMO is hypocrisy!

[cali]

12. you live in Georgia. In Vermont we actually have access to abortion services

In my state unlike yours, we actually care about such things. you should fucking worry about the backward fucked up state you live in and not Vermont where we govern well. oh and don't move here in fact, don't even visit.

[jody]

13. LOL I live in AL, CA, GA and I've lived in VT as well as other countries. Spend your money as you

choose but not mine.

[NotThisTime]

14. Then you have the choice not to move here if they cover the undocumented workers who work on the

farms that provides your milk, meat and everything else in between.

[jody]

15. "move here"! My ancestors met the Mayflower, helped create MA, relatives signed our constitution.

One was the first baby born in the White House, and others did things that are common place in history.

Have a great day and goodbye. :hi:

[SPedigrees]

16. Unless you are a Vermonter, your taxes won't be

going to our single payer health care system. "Don't move here" meant "don't move here to Vermont." And this Vermonter hopes you don't.

[jody]

18. If you promise to leave VT if I move there, then I'll pack tonight. nt

[SPedigrees]

45. I'm not leaving Vermont.

You can do whatever the fuck you want.

[cali]

20. yeah? so the fuck what? aren't you the entitled little critter.

[jody]

21. I'm entitled to what I earn from my own work and gladly share with others but that's my choice. I'm

pro-choice on how the money I earn is spent.

I accept joint responsibility on sharing costs for services that benefit all society but object to anyone using the power, not authority, of government to steal my money and give it to those who don't deserve a handout.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

24. As a Democrat all my life I support our Party Platform position on illegal aliens. Do you?

At the same time, we cannot continue to allow people to enter the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked. The American people are a welcoming and generous people, but those who enter our country's borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law. We need to secure our borders, and support additional personnel, infrastructure and technology on the border and at our ports of entry. We need additional Customs and Border Protection agents equipped with better technology and real-time intelligence. We need to dismantle human smuggling organizations, combating the crime associated with this trade. We also need to do more to promote economic development in migrant-sending nations, to reduce incentives to come to the United States illegally. And we need to crack down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants, especially those who pay their workers less than the minimum wage. It's a problem when we only enforce our laws against the immigrants themselves, with raids that are ineffective, tear apart families and leave people detained without adequate access to counsel. We realize that employers need a method to verify whether their employees are legally eligible to work in the U.S., and will ensure that our system is accurate, fair to legal workers, safeguards people's privacy, and cannot be used to discriminate against workers.

[cali]

26. no. i don't walk in lockstep. Do YOU?

[jody]

28. What other parts of my Party's Platform do you oppose? Corollary question, how much of a party's

platform can one oppose before she/he should stop masquerading as a party member?

ADDED: THE 2008 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL PLATFORM, RENEWING AMERICA’S PROMISE

[SPedigrees]

46. So you decide whether or not to pay taxes?

It's your choice whether or not your tax money pays for schools, roads, the military, police services, etc? Maybe you get to call the shots on who is or isn't deserving of these services?

What reality are you living in? Ask the IRS if it's your choice whether or not to pay taxes if you feel that legal recipients of social programs that your tax money helps to fund are unworthy.

[NotThisTime]

22. Spent forty years there, I'm good for now, yours weren't the only relatives appearing in MA history.

Did you come from somewhere?

[Unvanguard]

43. So you support voluntary taxation?

And anyone who doesn't is a hypocrite?

Really?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

39. +1

Great post!

[MasonJar]

8. Most other industrialized countries treat everyone for free, including

visiting Americans. We are a "sick" society. (A little play on words there) I am disgusted that the Dems didn't push for single payer. That said Vermont is certainly a leader in this fight. I can hardly denigrate them.

[SPedigrees]

17. +1000. nt

[jody]

19. Every other industrialized country has grown under the incredibly expensive military protection paid

for with US bodies and dollars.

Enough already,let them protect themselves.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. We haven't been "protecting" those countries for years

America is the OUTLIER when it comes to military spending.

Most other countries spend in proportion to their share of the world's population. The U.S. spends more than the next ten countries (including Russia and China) COMBINED.

When a military establishment gets to be this big, it's not about "defending freedom" anymore. It's about imperialism, grabbing resources and forcing other countries to be friendly to U.S. corporate interests.

[jody]

30. LOL, history shows that Europe, India, Japan, South Korea, Middle East oil countries et al grew

their economies under the protection of US forces.

True the US reaped enormous benefits at the same time but that's the synergy of a global economy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. But did they really NEED this protection

We impoverished ourselves by "protecting" our own corporate interests.

There's no evidence that the Soviet Union would have tried to conquer Europe militarily. All their aggressive moves were against rebellious client states, not against Western Europe.

India was neutral and received aid from both the U.S. and the Soviets (Some right-wingers thought of it as too pro-Soviet). That is not to mention the fact that development in India has been incredibly uneven, with a growing wealthy and middle class but with the poor worse off than before because prices for necessities have skyrocketed while wages for unskilled labor have not.

South Korea was in poverty until they started taking control of their own economy.

And the U.S. "protected" the Middle Eastern oil countries by overthrowing the only democratically elected government they had ever had (Mossadegh in Iran).

Where did you learn all your "facts"? In ROTC?

[jody]

32. "But did they really NEED this protection" The countries I cited did and they asked for it. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Or their elites asked for it, you mean

The U.S.-Japan Security Treaty was incredibly unpopular with the Japanese public, especially in the areas around the bases, where the locals had to put up with drunken 18-year-olds acting like overlords. It was railroaded through the Japanese Diet when the ruling party literally locked the opposition out.

I can't recall a time when the U.S. actually defended India.

As for the Middle Eastern oil producers, the U.S. wasn't defending the actual countries or the people in them. They were defending ARAMCO and British Petroleum. They didn't care if the actual people were ruled by religious fanatics (Saudi Arabia) or by dictators with delusions of grandeur (Iran).

All this worry about oil supplies, yawn. Oil producers sell to whoever is willing to buy. Iran continues to supply Western Europe and would supply the U.S. if we didn't have them under embargo.

The trillions spent on the military would have been better spent developing a modern non-automotive transportation network and finding replacements for non-transportation uses of petroleum.

That would have been REAL defense.

[jody]

34. "Or their elites asked for it, you mean" No, I do not mean that. Please read the histories of those

countries and learn about their problems in the 20th century.

Have a great day and goodbye. :hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. I bet I know a lot more about Japanese history than you do

and not the militarized version (which I can recognize a mile off, having taught on a campus where a huge percentage of students were in ROTC).

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. Countries that have universal health care operate like this--

They will provide emergency care (real emergency care, not the sniffles) for anyone who shows up, and they will stabilize them. So if you are a tourist in a country with universal health care and you suffer a heart attack, they will take you in their emergency room and stabilize you. However, they will not provide on-going care, such as rehab. They expect you to go to your home country for that.

A lot of the right-wingers on the Minneapolis paper's website made hay over the fact that when Natasha Richardson suffered her fatal head injury in Canada, she was moved to New York after a couple of days. But that wasn't because Canadian health care is inferior. It's because Richardson was not a resident of Canada, only a visitor, and therefore fell under the rubric of "We'll stabilize you and send you home."

Something like this seems fair in the case of illegal immigrants. Stabilize them but provide no on-going care or require them to pay cash for it.

[Armstead]

36. Let the distractions begin!

That's not a criticism of the OP. But now that Vt. is trying to move towards a single payer system, all kinds of distractions and attempts to derail it will begin in earnest.

Expect to see debates over abortion, death panels, Planned Parenthood, etc. used in attempts to make it so convoluted that it goesd the way of national health care "reform."

Hopefully, Vermonters will focus on the primary goal and mechanisms, set the distractions aside, get the dang thing finalized in basic form and put into place, and THEN deal with those divisive side issues.

[cali]

37. no, that's really not what's going on here.

I can guarantee you that the Senate and house bills will be reconciled within the week and the legislation will be signed by Shumlin within 10 days. No one following this here disputes that.

[Armstead]

38. I hope so...And I hope the butchers don;t surface during the real nuts and bolts

I have followed it somewhat from a distance (of a nearby state).

The GOP and Teabaggers are like bedbugs however. They come out when you least expect them.

[cali]

44. if you're really into following it

this is the place to do it.

http://vtdigger.org/

and there are no teabaggers or right wingers on any of the committees involved. And believe me, Shap (speaker of the house) has it under control. I was at the state house last week. the real nuts and bolts (of this bill) are in place.

[Unvanguard]

41. For health care to be universal, ALL people must be covered.

Undocumented people pay taxes and have health care needs just as much as anyone else. It's really a shame that this isn't a no-brainer: of course they should be covered.

[bluestate10]

47. Tough sticking point. Vermont is likely the only state that has a prayer of

making the right decision. What is you sense of how this should be handled, other than you want to see coverage for migrant workers? How would you make it work on a practical level? Would migrant workers be required to pay a slightly larger copay than residents? Would migrant care fall to a specialized group that operates within Vermont's single payer plan? How Vermont answers the issue and how successful the Green Mountain state is with it's plan will determine whether other states follow it's lead.

[moondust]

48. Likely to attract lots of undocumented?

Why bother to settle in Texas or Arizona when you can get free health care if you travel a little farther and settle in Vermont? Ask laborers in Vermont what they think of that idea.