General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsConservative professor explains the futility of arguing with Trump-voters:
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/07/conservative-naval-professor-explains-futility-trying-reach-trump-voters-just-bad-people/Both did the standard Trump thing: talking at me in a fusillade of words punctuated with questions that they would not let me answer, Nichols said. This is a compulsion with Trumpers: they must *must* constantly explain to you why they *had* to vote for Trump.
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Nichols told the woman she was not a reasonable person, and he said their views on Trump were simply not compatible with reality.
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These two people will never, ever change their minds, Nichols said. They are not accessible to reason. They demand agreement and respect, even when they dont give it and are themselves unreasonable. This is the cohort that neither the GOP post-Trump nor Dems will ever reach.
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These types of Trumpers are just lost, he said. Theyre not going to climb down, change their minds, listen to new information. Trump really could shoot them on Fifth Avenue. Theres no point in discussion, because they dont *discuss*, they *preach*.
No rational or fact-based politics will reach these folks, Nichols added. I hate to say that, because I believe in the power of reason and facts. But theyre gone. Some of them are nice people, but dumb. Some of them are just bad people. But rationality isnt going to change much here.
And that is the real problem for the Republicans. The party has driven their voter-base of the deep end with never-ending hate and propaganda, and now they are wholly unreachable for anybody.
dalton99a
(81,637 posts)Afromania
(2,771 posts)Some of us have know for exactly that long that those people are unreachable. Others, strung it out as long as they could with puff pieces, calls to reach across the aisle, empathy for those who have no empathy for others. Even though they took the long way around it's good to see we're finally getting there with a proper understanding about the trump voter psyche.
Cosmocat
(14,575 posts)with Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck - the thousands and thousands of AM radio and book writing profiteers, turning a nice buck spinning right wing lunacy to willing chumps - their brains were completely well before 45 took the whip and gave them what these people, and republican politicians whistled at for over a quarter century.
There is a reason 45 ran as a republican - the key to the con is not the con itself, but the marks. And, he knew he had 10s of millions of people who were already tuned up by the GOP, he just took these people from the party by giving them what they have been whipped into a frenzy to so desperately want.
Side note - 8 years of barking at the moon lunacy over BHO put them over the edge. The disconnect from reality to make him out to be so horrible is in equal proportion to the disconnect to try to rationalize 45.
yonder
(9,682 posts)"The disconnect from reality to make him (Obama) out to be so horrible is in equal proportion to the disconnect to try to rationalize 45."
It's like squeezing a balloon: It's going to pooch out somewhere else. Until it pops.
OMGWTF
(3,980 posts)who are not interested in your stinkin' facts and reason.
Duppers
(28,127 posts)Don't question your leaders.
Texin
(2,599 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Just can't reason with them.
47of74
(18,470 posts)Good one!
H2O Man
(73,637 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)facts, truth, & reality told to them by their leader.
They assume everyone else is lying. Like a cult follower, they have totally lost their independent thinking and ability to filter out obvious lies. They make excuses for some obvious lies, and Trump & others give it to them: He was joking; or that was taken out of context.
Example: Trump did not make fun of a disabled man. When faced with the video...no response, or stating "that's not making fun of anyone. He's moving his hands like that for another reason...to make a point."
If you press them, they'll respond with typical phrases: "You're just a lyin' demotard. Fake news."
lpbk2713
(42,769 posts)I don't even talk politics with many of my family members.
It only elevates blood pressure needlessly.
AlexSFCA
(6,139 posts)mudstump
(342 posts)right-wing propaganda and brainwashing have worked to solidify these followers into loyal soldiers of the right. They are unreachable. It will take years and a massive deprogramming effort to ever turn this around. Democrats should focus on reaching those that can still reason.
appalachiablue
(41,182 posts)cstanleytech
(26,334 posts)the biggest example.
griloco
(832 posts)We can't out talk him. I tell them to watch the video of him lying and back it up with the depositions. They won't turn until he hurts them in some way and maybe not then as marks still believed in Ponzi even after he was exposed.
Believe me!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University
cab67
(3,010 posts)The Death of Expertise - I recommend it. It's coming from a conservative angle, but nevertheless makes some legitimate arguments.
yonder
(9,682 posts)since listening to his interview on NPR. I thought he presented himself very well in the interview. Thanks for the conservative angle aspect.
world wide wally
(21,757 posts)If we all refuse to discuss politics with them at all, they will STFU and Logic will take hold. It will accomplish just as much as trying to reason with them.
jalan48
(13,901 posts)Marcuse
(7,530 posts)yonder
(9,682 posts)Because you've been there before and still have hope, you've engaged with a redhat working to find a common thread of humanity through facts or reasonable argument. Their eyes glaze over or they start to do the Gish on you. Voices might rise til once again, you realize it's pointless to go further.
Now, you can take that unfortunate comfort in knowing you are not likely to progress, so why try? It's your choice. Know when to stop. Save some time. You might better advance your argument and have more fun in talking to your dog.
The hope, though beaten down, remains. When to apply it on a facts bereft subject, is a clearer choice.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Facts should matter but it is labeled as fake news by The Trumpsters and their idiot hero.
Dangerous to be sure, right out of Hitlers playbook.
Hassler
(3,393 posts)Mark Twain: It's easier to con people out of their money than it is to convince them after that they were conned.
JI7
(89,279 posts)so instead of just admitting it they come up with other bs to justify it.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,245 posts)and how Democrats "don't have a message". Whether Democrats have "a message" is beside the point. Nothing can break through the M$M's obsession with all things Trump. It's been that way since the day he announced. He got outsized coverage all during his primary, and it continues right up until today. Every utterance, every tweet, and every falsehood sucks up all the oxygen in the room. So I don't blame Democrats for messaging. We don't own the media.