This is catastrophic

[angrychair]

With Manchin now fully in support of the Republican agenda, we have no hope at all of passing any meaningful legislation...likely for the foreseeable future.
If this holds and Congress cannot get anything done our chances to hold the House in 2022 and Senate in 2024 are zero.
Republicans were in control of the Senate for the last 6 years straight.
How much "reaching across the isle" did they do in that time? None.
Those 6 years were spent demonizing and attacking Democrats at every turn and dismantling everything Obama did.
I worry what this will mean for our country's future.

[SoonerPride]

1. Trust in Joe to get things done

The sky hasn't fallen.

Stop panicking.

Really.

[soothsayer]

3. Yep this

[angrychair]

5. Just the truth

Barring Manchin having a significant change of heart, which seems incredibly unlikely, I don't see how Biden fixes this.
I mean we all collectively lived the last 6 years together and Manchin, despite seeing everything he has seen, still thinks Republicans want to work with Democrats or compromise on anything? There is zero evidence that will happen. In fact there is literally a mountain of evidence saying the exact opposite.

Sorry, given the very public opinions Republicans have stated on HR1 and infrastructure and student loan debt and immigration reform and so on, I see no way forward.

[LakeArenal]

6. That's all conjecture on your part.

You don’t know. Just that your sky is falling.

[angrychair]

9. Its conjecture

That republicans spent the last 6 years attacking Democrats at every turn?

Manchin's public opinion is not conjecture.

The Republican's position on things like HR1 are very clear.
On infrastructure? Very clear.

On student loan debt? Clear.

On immigration? Clear.

On just about everything? Crystal clear.

What exactly is my conjecture on this?

[LakeArenal]

23. My opinion is the Democrats are stronger than Manchin.

Your view is pessimistic and just an opinion.

My mom would call it being a Negative Nelly.

Dwelling in “all is lost” and pessimism is not solving anything but it is your prerogative.

It’s a beautiful day.

[angrychair]

30. There is a difference

Between being negative and being realistic.

I watched Obama, arguably the most popular president in a generation and one of the best communicators in US political history, twist himself into knots for 6 years trying to get agreement with Republicans and all he was left with was a handful of dust.
Those same Republicans spent the last 4 years dismantling what ljttle Obama did mange to do through policy and EO.

6 years of experience makes it very clear that republicans will never work with us on anything unless our plan is complete capitulation to every Republican demand.

[LakeArenal]

33. Not really. It's still all conjecture either way.

“Realistic” is a subjective term.

[lagomorph777]

16. Manchin doesn't have to have a change of heart (he has no heart).

But he does have a wallet, and surely he is responsive to Kompromat.

McConnell is squeezing Manchin. Biden can squeeze him harder.

[Celerity]

22. Ok, I will play. Explain to me how filibustered bills (basically anything that cannot be passed

through reconciliation) get passed as now Manchin has said no to even MODIFYING the filibuster to any degree that would actually work for us.

Is he flat out lying? He is making absolute statements so either he is lying or he is going to block a shedload of Biden's agenda. Plus not many are even talking about Sinema, who is even more radical on the filibuster than Manchin. She wants a 60 vote threshold for ALL Senate action.

It is not me nor the press saying this. It is Manchin himself. He also says he will not pass a bill through reconciliation that doesn't have bi-partisan support. Where is that going to come from? What is his definition of bi-partisan? 1, 2 Rethugs? 10 Rethugs?

Do you actually think 10 Rethugs will sign on and vote all the voting rights bills into law? They would have too, as they al will be filibustered, and Manchin will not eliminate the 60 vote threshold. They cannot be put into a reconciliation bill.

If you do think 10 Rethugs will sign on for those voter bills, well, I have a bridge to sell you. It comes with a great view of the Thames.

Also, what modifications will he support now that he has taken any that 'weaken' it at all (which is the entire point of modification) off the table? He already specifically said NO, never, to the 41 votes to sustain option, and his insistence on 60 votes being kept as the threshold for cloture being invoked kills off the talking filibuster option to any remotely workable degree.


Joe Manchin says there is ‘no circumstance’ in which he would back weakening the filibuster.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/07/us/politics/joe-manchin-filibuster-reconciliation.html

Senator Joe Manchin III of West Virginia, a key moderate Democrat, on Wednesday reaffirmed his vow to protect the filibuster in the evenly divided Senate and suggested reluctance to his party repeatedly using a fast-track budget process to advance legislation without Republican votes.

Mr. Manchin has long been one of the most stalwart defenders of the 60-vote threshold needed to end debate in the upper chamber, even as it threatens to derail key elements of President Biden’s agenda. Despite previously toying with possible reforms to the procedural hurdle, he has repeatedly swatted away queries about what could drive him to vote to outright abolish the filibuster, even as Democrats have gamed out various scenarios in which he might relent.

In an opinion piece published in The Washington Post, Mr. Manchin vowed that there was “no circumstance in which I will vote to eliminate or weaken the filibuster,” and he urged party leaders to compromise on legislation instead of trying to work around Republican opposition. Ten Republicans are currently needed to join all Democrats in a 50-50 Senate to pass major pieces of legislation through the regular process.

snip




https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/joe-manchin-filibuster-vote/2021/04/07/cdbd53c6-97da-11eb-a6d0-13d207aadb78_story.html



snip

The filibuster is a critical tool to protecting that input and our democratic form of government. That is why I have said it before and will say it again to remove any shred of doubt: There is no circumstance in which I will vote to eliminate or weaken the filibuster. The time has come to end these political games, and to usher a new era of bipartisanship where we find common ground on the major policy debates facing our nation.

Unfortunately, our leaders in the Senate fail to realize what goes around comes around. We should all be alarmed at how the budget reconciliation process is being used by both parties to stifle debate around the major issues facing our country today. Legislating was never supposed to be easy. It is hard work to address the needs of both rural and urban communities in a single piece of legislation, but it is the work we were elected to do.

I simply do not believe budget reconciliation should replace regular order in the Senate. How is that good for the future of this nation? Senate Democrats must avoid the temptation to abandon our Republican colleagues on important national issues. Republicans, however, have a responsibility to stop saying no, and participate in finding real compromise with Democrats.

Working legislation through regular order in the Senate prevents drastic swings in federal policymaking. Voting rights reforms, instituting health-care protections and changes to the federal tax code and business regulations take time to implement on the state and local levels. If the filibuster is eliminated or budget reconciliation becomes the norm, a new and dangerous precedent will be set to pass sweeping, partisan legislation that changes the direction of our nation every time there is a change in political control. The consequences will be profound — our nation may never see stable governing again.

So please do tell how this is going to work, and btw, quoting Schumer as saying 'Failure is not an option' is not a valid reply.


TIA

[FalloutShelter]

2. Let's bring an ambitious republican across the isle...

I'm thinking Liz Cheney. I really think this is the path. Forget Maschin. Take his power away.
We can get a Republican... some are looking for a way to get attention and do something of value for their constituents so they can run for president in 2024.

[Celerity]

10. Liz Cheney's a House member, useless in the Senate. Maybe you meant Murkowski or (gag) Susan Collins

[Calista241]

11. Murkowski is up for re-election in 2022.

Which is going to affect her vote, as she's being primaried from the right. And she's toed the party line in early votes this year where a 'centrist' could have easily crossed over.

[Celerity]

14. the ultra QMAGAt Kelly Tshibaka is unfortunately kicking Murkowski's arse in the polls so far

https://mustreadalaska.com/poll-tshibaka-in-strong-position-for-alaska-murkowski-has-ground-to-make-up/




Trump alums sign up with new Murkowski opponent

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/29/tshibaka-murkowski-alaska-2022-election-478388



Trump-loving GOP candidate says God thinks she's 'cute': 'I've got this high-powered brain that never stops and drives me crazy

https://www.rawstory.com/kelly-tshibaka-alaska/

[PortTack]

20. It's really early ...with 21% undecided the dotard idiot doesn't look so favorable

[FalloutShelter]

24. You are so right... I meant Murkowski.

I'm certain there are others.

[Celerity]

25. Look at how they ALL voted on the COVID bill. Zero support. They will never vote for the voting

rights bills. and even if 4 or 5 did, it is still dead, as we need 10 to invoke cloture. Those bills cannot be put in a reconciliation package.

[FalloutShelter]

26. I know it is a very long shot,...

But I think, as the tRump fog fades, the American people are going to LIKE getting actual "deliverables" from their government.
Pressure will build on R's to "deliver". They will begin to feel pressure for programs that they haven't felt in nearly 20 years.
The NEED out there is Soooo great. AS focus shifts to making things actually happen... some will some along.

Maybe I am delusional... maybe not.

[Celerity]

29. I would never insult you as delusional, and I truly hope you are right, but the odds are 99.99%

that 10 Rethugs NEVER break away, especially on the voting rights bills. The ONLY way they stay in power is to suppress the vote, rig the courts, rig the state assemblies, gerrymander, and cheat like motherfuckers, plus keep ramping up the white power elements to maintain white group solidarity. Oh, and wage plague wars via COVID and PoC. They are betting it kills more PoC and white Dem voters than it kills QMAGAts in crucial swing states and districts.

[CrispyQ]

4. I've come to realize that the thing these (mostly) white men fear the absolute most is irrelevance.

Manchin is going to milk this for all the attention & power he can. And I totally agree that it will fuck with our chances in 2022 & 2024. New voters & struggling voters are fickle, & we're going to need every single one of them to return to the polls. Our GOTV efforts are going to have to be as massive & diligent as 2020.

[angrychair]

7. Not sure how

Its the single minded goal of the republican party to make Democrats as ineffective as possible to help them win back the House and Senate.

[PortTack]

17. Please...the qgop wants you to think they have all the options and power and you're falling for it

DON’T!

[getagrip_already]

8. breathe......

First, we still have two chances to get meaningful legislation passed through the budget reconciliation act. Manchin hasn't said he wouldn't support an infrastructure bill for example, though he does have issues with the initial plan (as do some progressives). They will eventually come to agreement and pass it.

Second, he has said that hr-1 is important and will be voted on. That is at odds with how the press is reporting his comments on the fillibuster, but the press likes to scare people and politicians often use very precise language that can be twisted from they technically said.

So leave it to the adults. All is not lost. It was lost until we won GA. But there are still a lot of levers that can be moved.

Manchin has always voted with us when it mattered. Lets see how this plays out.

[angrychair]

12. Missed the point

With the filibuster in place he has given himself permanent coverage back home.

He has freed himself to vote on every single Democratic Party bill without any worry that it matters. Because it won't. Republicans will filibuster every single piece of legislation Democrats put forward.
This gives him cover to say "I tried but Republicans"
Without 60 votes not a single piece of legislation will pass.

[PortTack]

19. Schumer has indicated that all options are on the table. We need to trust our dem leaders

Law professors: the filibuster is unconstitutional, and Kamala Harris can issue a ruling.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215256096

[Celerity]

28. Not a valid answer to my detailed post asking simple questions:

See this

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15315101

Answer those simple and crucial, profoundly germane questions please and we can then have a good faith discussion.


Btw, your link is madness, IF we even tried that Manchin and Sinema will NEVER vote to uphold that ruling.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215256096

There are so many valid replies that OBLITERATE that nonsense OP. (and from a wide range of political ideological stances amongst the posters who smash it to bits, and right so)

[mikewv]

13. Exactly!

[DenaliDemocrat]

15. I have come to believe that politics is like a casino

Everything is precisely managed. I think this is mostly political theatre for Manchin’s constituency, but they are working it out behind closed doors

[PortTack]

18. This!!

[Greybnk48]

21. Agree. n/t

[TheBlackAdder]

27. Politics is like a casino. Crap Shoots everywhere! 🤣

[angrychair]

32. Sorry, no

We spent 10 years (6 Obama and 4 trump) getting nothing from Republicans but insane conspiracy theories, racism, bigotry and big pay outs to Republican donors.
What exactly do Manchin and Sinema think is going to suddenly change?

[Vinca]

31. While I agree we're up the creek in the short term because of Manchin, I see it as a motivating

opportunity to get people out to the polls to vote for Dems in 2022 and 2024. We have to overcome every obstacle to voting they put in our way because I think, in the end, Joe's bet will pay off. He's introducing everything Democrats usually avoid despite them being overwhelmingly popular with Americans. They're avoided because of GOP Congressmen and Senators who act exactly the way they're acting today. Educate the public to vote Republicans out and get some serious work done for the rank and file Americans.

[Boydog]

34. You need to listen to what President Biden

says about bipartisanship. He would like to achieve it but he's realistic.