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riversedge

(70,445 posts)
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:30 PM Apr 2021

Pete Buttigieg says there is racism physically built into some highways.............

I learned something new just now............


I live on Long Island. Robert Moses built low overpasses on the Southern State parkway so buses from the city couldn’t make it to the beaches


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Pete Buttigieg says there is racism physically built into some highways............. (Original Post) riversedge Apr 2021 OP
Covering topics like this in a class ChazII Apr 2021 #1
Detroit, Michigan Kid Berwyn Apr 2021 #2
Happened in New Orleans, too.... Goodheart Apr 2021 #7
The institution of US racism is cast in concrete. Kid Berwyn Apr 2021 #8
Eisenhower's Interstate highway system h2ebits Apr 2021 #11
St. Paul, Mn LNM Apr 2021 #16
Interstate routes were routinely used to obliterate thriving minority communities or cut them WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2021 #3
K & R musette_sf Apr 2021 #4
As is the highway by Yale in New Haven obamanut2012 Apr 2021 #5
I found one of those Long Island Southern State Parkway overpasses with Google Street View Towlie Apr 2021 #6
Nicely done, there, Towlie. Don't you just love the Internets for stuff like this? RussellCattle Apr 2021 #12
Robert Moses' bridges are not new news Vogon_Glory Apr 2021 #9
Also, as originally envisioned, the Long Island Expressway would have had a large median to dhol82 Apr 2021 #10
It's new news for the US Secretary Of Transportation to be acknowledging it. Iggo Apr 2021 #20
I don't know about that. Not disagreeing that there is some racism involved, but buses have always.. George II Apr 2021 #13
A Robert Moses biographer has a pretty direct quote on the topic caraher Apr 2021 #15
Portland, OR destroyed black neighborhood Nululu Apr 2021 #14
For the Lloyd Center and Memorial Coliseum.. Permanut Apr 2021 #24
I grew up on Long Island. I rather liked the parkways for the absence of trucks. However... NNadir Apr 2021 #17
DAMN! elleng Apr 2021 #18
Pete B. continues to amaze and gratify Hekate Apr 2021 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author AllaN01Bear Apr 2021 #21
Check out Tulsa for a huge example of this. yellerpup Apr 2021 #22
Robert A. Caro's "The Power Broker" set a new standard for political bios. It is an amazing read. eppur_se_muova Apr 2021 #23
This happened all over the country and is still happening Withywindle Apr 2021 #25

Kid Berwyn

(15,060 posts)
2. Detroit, Michigan
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:34 PM
Apr 2021
Freeways are Detroit's most enduring monuments to racism. Let's excise them.

Nithin Vejendla
Opinion, The Detroit Free Press, July 5, 2020

The protests over George Floyd’s murder at the hands of Minneapolis Police have brought to the forefront the variety of ways in which our society continues to harbor white supremacy and perpetuate racism. Part of this reckoning involves removing racist monuments, including the Christopher Columbus statue that the City of Detroit recently put in storage.

But if we’re going to get serious about removing symbols of this country’s endemic racism, we shouldn’t stop there. Detroit’s most persistent, visible, and disruptive symbols of racism are its freeways.

Planners routed Detroit's freeways through predominantly Black communities. The Chrysler Freeway blasted through Paradise Valley and Black Bottom, destroying a vibrant Black business and entertainment district that contained some of the African-American community’s most important institutions. The Lodge Expressway (M-10) cut through the increasingly Black neighborhoods around 12th Street and west of Highland Park, and the Edsel Ford Freeway (I-94) managed to cut through both the Black west side and the northern extension of Paradise Valley.

Highway planners sold the demolition programs as part of an “urban renewal” campaign designed to help residents by replacing older homes and apartments with new construction. In practice, it amounted to “negro removal”: Predominantly Black and poor residents displaced by the demolition were left to find new housing without government assistance at a time when demand in the city’s segregated housing market far outstripped supply. Instead of moving into better living conditions, a majority of those displaced ended up within a mile of the new super-highways, in homes that were almost no better than the ones they had left. The better residential developments, such as Lafayette Park, became mostly white enclaves. Harvey Royal, whose home was demolished for the Ford Freeway, summed it up best by saying: “I think it would have been so much nicer to have built places for people to live in than a highway and just put people in the street.”

Continues...

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/2020/07/05/detroit-freeways-racism-segregation-white-flight/5366081002/

Goodheart

(5,352 posts)
7. Happened in New Orleans, too....
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:14 PM
Apr 2021

I-10 from downtown eastward was deliberately routed over North Claiborne Avenue, which was a fine wide avenue of black-owned houses and businesses.

Kid Berwyn

(15,060 posts)
8. The institution of US racism is cast in concrete.
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:17 PM
Apr 2021

Time for some real urban renewal— a New Reconstruction.

h2ebits

(650 posts)
11. Eisenhower's Interstate highway system
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:57 PM
Apr 2021

Denver Interstate designed to wipe out poor section of town. Even today, major fight to repair I70 by moving a section underground to save the people and help with pollution failed so we are repeating the systemic racism rather than correcting it.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,520 posts)
3. Interstate routes were routinely used to obliterate thriving minority communities or cut them
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:35 PM
Apr 2021

off from the larger community.

musette_sf

(10,209 posts)
4. K & R
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:42 PM
Apr 2021

and I just ordered The Power Broker. (No Kindle version. I thought about the Audible version but it’s 66 hours long.)

obamanut2012

(26,183 posts)
5. As is the highway by Yale in New Haven
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:07 PM
Apr 2021

It was built to keep the POC and other "lower class" from being able to easily access the Yale grounds.

Towlie

(5,332 posts)
6. I found one of those Long Island Southern State Parkway overpasses with Google Street View
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:07 PM
Apr 2021
Google Street View

The sign says 10' - 6" clearance.

A Google search for "height of a bus" returns "Total bus height is usually 13 to 14.5 feet..."

And that's just the first overpass that I looked at.

dhol82

(9,353 posts)
10. Also, as originally envisioned, the Long Island Expressway would have had a large median to
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:54 PM
Apr 2021

allow for a train to run down the middle. That would have accommodated low went housing on either side.
Moses threw that idea out the window.
He was an amazing shit stain.

George II

(67,782 posts)
13. I don't know about that. Not disagreeing that there is some racism involved, but buses have always..
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:08 PM
Apr 2021

....been prohibited from all parkways in New York State, as have trailers and most commercial vehicles.

So I don't think that's why the overpasses are so low.

caraher

(6,279 posts)
15. A Robert Moses biographer has a pretty direct quote on the topic
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:27 PM
Apr 2021

On one hand, there do exist perfectly innocent explanations - bridges were built lower at the time. And parkways were meant to evoke a rural area and exclude commercial traffic.

But there's also some pretty damning evidence:

So when I say that one man not only shaped New York but shaped it for centuries to come, because now how can you overcome that? All the people who live in northeastern Queens, or Co-op City in the Bronx, and all of Suffolk and a lot of Nassau County, they’re condemned to use cars. It’s not easy to use mass transit. Moses came along with his incredible vision, and vision not in a good sense. It’s like how he built the bridges too low.

I remember his aide, Sid Shapiro, who I spent a lot of time getting to talk to me, he finally talked to me. And he had this quote that I’ve never forgotten. He said Moses didn’t want poor people, particularly poor people of color, to use Jones Beach, so they had legislation passed forbidding the use of buses on parkways.

Then he had this quote, and I can still hear him saying it to me. “Legislation can always be changed. It’s very hard to tear down a bridge once it’s up.” So he built 180 or 170 bridges too low for buses.

We used Jones Beach a lot, because I used to work the night shift for the first couple of years, so I’d sleep til 12 and then we’d go down and spend a lot of afternoons at the beach. It never occurred to me that there weren’t any black people at the beach.


Moreover, the bridges blocking access to Jones Beach were, in fact, notably lower than average:

The Parkway was planned in 1925 by Moses to improve access for motorists to his newly constructed Jones Beach. Sid Shapiro, one of Moses’ closest associates, speaks to the construction of the bridges in the iconic 1974 Moses biography The Power Broker, ”too low for buses to pass. Bus trips, therefore had to be made on local roads, making the trips discouragingly long and arduous. For Negroes, whom he considered inherently "dirty," there were further measures. Buses needed permits to enter state parks; buses chartered by Negro groups found it very difficult to obtain permits, particularly to Moses' beloved Jones Beach." (p318) This anecdote has been widely repeated, but what is its validity?


...the Southern State bridges were substantially lower averaging just 107.6 inches (eastbound) with four under 8 feet tall.

While there may not be definitive proof, the verification that the Southern State bridges are substantially lower, Caro's anecdotal evidence from Sid Shapiro and Moses' successful attempt to prevent the Long Island Railroad from constructing a line to Jones Beach all make it clear that Moses likely ordered the bridge heights lowered to keep lower-income and minority New Yorkers from accessing Jones Beach. The example is one of many built environment strategies used by planners to racially discriminate.


Nululu

(842 posts)
14. Portland, OR destroyed black neighborhood
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:22 PM
Apr 2021

Over 300 homes taken for low payments. A mostly black neighborhood destroyed

Permanut

(5,710 posts)
24. For the Lloyd Center and Memorial Coliseum..
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 01:09 AM
Apr 2021

and I-5 northbound out of Portland toward Vancouver Washington.

NNadir

(33,586 posts)
17. I grew up on Long Island. I rather liked the parkways for the absence of trucks. However...
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:43 PM
Apr 2021

...I never thought of this possibility. On some level it makes sense, but ultimately they did build the LI Expressway.

Response to riversedge (Original post)

yellerpup

(12,254 posts)
22. Check out Tulsa for a huge example of this.
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 03:21 PM
Apr 2021

Intestates cut through all sections of Greenwood (North Tulsa) so it would never be the same, continuing throughout the years after the Tulsa Race Massacre in 1921.

eppur_se_muova

(36,317 posts)
23. Robert A. Caro's "The Power Broker" set a new standard for political bios. It is an amazing read.
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 06:34 PM
Apr 2021

If you don't have time to read all 700,000 words, try reading the Wikipedia article on the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_Broker

(Some other items: Moses had heard that POC are less tolerant of cold water than whites, so city pools were kept at low temps. Pools were also built in predominantly white neighborhoods only. Parks had steps at the entrances to discourage mothers from bringing prams into the park -- thus making sure that genteel strollers would not have to witness the unpleasantness of a diaper change. All forced onto NYC residents by a man who was never elected to any public office.)

The original MS ran to 1,050,000 words, and had to be shortened to be printed as a single volume. I almost wish it could be published in its original form, so I could read more. It was that good.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
25. This happened all over the country and is still happening
Mon Apr 12, 2021, 02:25 AM
Apr 2021

"Urban renewal" destroyed Black and brown neighborhoods.

Highways and transit systems designed to further segregation and coddle white people's fears of having anything to do with Black people nearby.

Shame is written into the very roadmaps of our cities.

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