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Cost for one vial of insulin in 1996: $21 (Original Post) Uncle Joe Nov 2021 OP
we live in an age of rentier capitalism Voltaire2 Nov 2021 #1
Yes. That's a very important term to understand harumph Nov 2021 #22
It is unlikely, given the evolution of insulin, Ms. Toad Nov 2021 #2
Very interesting. Thanx. marybourg Nov 2021 #6
In other words that $320 is incorrect. George II Nov 2021 #18
There is insulin that is $320/vial. Ms. Toad Nov 2021 #23
Right. I guess what I should have said is the $21 vial isn't $320 today, it's $25. In fact.... George II Nov 2021 #25
Good analogy. n/t Ms. Toad Nov 2021 #27
Now, I'm absolutely CERTAIN that Bernie wouldn't try to mislead people intentionally... NurseJackie Nov 2021 #32
How could Bernie get it so wrong? NurseJackie Nov 2021 #21
Who knows. Ms. Toad Nov 2021 #24
It doesn't seem possible that Bernie would be so careless... NurseJackie Nov 2021 #28
He is correct. See reply #33. (nt) muriel_volestrangler Nov 2021 #34
It may seem unlikely, but it is the same vial. See #33 (nt) muriel_volestrangler Nov 2021 #35
If nothing else, insulin should be nationalized and sold a cost. rickyhall Nov 2021 #3
+1 n/t area51 Nov 2021 #44
Isn't Joe Manchin's daughter the one who ownes the company that makes that $320 vial of insulin. ratchiweenie Nov 2021 #4
True BlueJac Nov 2021 #5
Epipens, I believe Ms. Toad Nov 2021 #9
Have you seen the Big Pharma ad on M$NBComcast malaise Nov 2021 #7
Even that is a false flag whine. Open competition is also another one of the drug companies Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #12
We all know this malaise Nov 2021 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author malaise Nov 2021 #15
Which would be fine if we weren't paying for their reseach and if we weren't paying more for the ratchiweenie Nov 2021 #43
Don't mind paying for the research, do mind paying for the windfall profits and extended Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #45
If we paid for the research and then reaped the rewards with low drug prices it would be great. ratchiweenie Nov 2021 #47
Government labs could do the same research...is that too socialist though? Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #49
True. Lots of money goes to University programs and lots more could. ratchiweenie Nov 2021 #54
This message was self-deleted by its author malaise Nov 2021 #8
The cost of insulin is absolutely criminal. Elessar Zappa Nov 2021 #10
This makes me both sad and MAD, luvtheGWN Nov 2021 #16
Outrageous...still 19 dollars in Canada..pure American greed at its evil best...and all made Alexander Of Assyria Nov 2021 #11
So comforting to know our reps REALLY work in the best interests of Big Pharma. calimary Nov 2021 #20
Surely it cannot be patented by now? This price is ridiculous. BSdetect Nov 2021 #13
Comparing to other countries makes you relaize how badly we are price gouged JT45242 Nov 2021 #17
+1 dalton99a Nov 2021 #29
I hear you JT, check out this urgent call to action from the Mayo Clinic on the high cost of insulin Uncle Joe Nov 2021 #31
Mayo Clinic? What do they know about healthcare? Voltaire2 Nov 2021 #51
So, if my math is right (always an iffy proposition)... momta Nov 2021 #19
If you make minimum wage you qualify for medicaid (thanks obama) and it's virtually free mathematic Nov 2021 #55
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, not by me, Sanders is comparing the price of one version.... George II Nov 2021 #26
The price for the same insulin did increase from $21 in 1996 to $275 in 2017 muriel_volestrangler Nov 2021 #33
The tweet says $320, not $274.70 or 137.35, and it says "the same vial"! That's simply not true.... George II Nov 2021 #36
Your Yugo/Cadillac analogy remains bullshit muriel_volestrangler Nov 2021 #37
I'm "invested" in getting the facts without them being incorrect for one reason or another. George II Nov 2021 #38
It's in preparation for explaining Voltaire2 Nov 2021 #52
The cost of a vial of Humalog today ranges from $48.85 (CVS) Ms. Toad Nov 2021 #40
And when I look at the most recent archive of that page muriel_volestrangler Nov 2021 #41
You print the coupons from the website Ms. Toad Nov 2021 #42
Cheaper and easier to get it mailed from pharmacy from Canada. Autumn Nov 2021 #46
I was responding to the poster who responded to me - Ms. Toad Nov 2021 #48
60% base rate of inflation over that time, so the non-insane-price-gouging price would be $33.61 Silent3 Nov 2021 #30
If what someone else said in this thread is correct, it's not $320 it's $26, lower than $33.61 George II Nov 2021 #39
Wow Defense of Big Pharma. Voltaire2 Nov 2021 #50
The clout chasing BannonsLiver Nov 2021 #53

Voltaire2

(13,331 posts)
1. we live in an age of rentier capitalism
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 11:23 AM
Nov 2021

Innovation is too risky, capturing markets and extracting profits is a much safer way to make money.

"Rentier capitalism is a term currently used to describe the belief in economic practices of monopolization of access to any kind of property (physical, financial, intellectual, etc.) and gaining significant amounts of profit without contribution to society."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_capitalism

harumph

(1,925 posts)
22. Yes. That's a very important term to understand
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 01:54 PM
Nov 2021

when trying to make sense of our economy - also "rent seeking behavior" by capital.
Thank you for mentioning it.

Ms. Toad

(34,154 posts)
2. It is unlikely, given the evolution of insulin,
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 11:41 AM
Nov 2021

That it is the same vial of insulin.

You can still purchase the insulin which was available in 1996 for about $25 at Walmart. Most of what was available in 1996 was synthetic human insulin. Much of what is available now (and more expensive) are insulin analogs. (The earlier versions were nearly all needle and vial delivery, as opposed to the more convenient (and costly) pre-measured single dose delivery systems.)

I'm not disputing that the cost of the more common insulin today is outrageous, but it is disingenuous to say the dramatic increase is for the same vial of insulin.

Ms. Toad

(34,154 posts)
23. There is insulin that is $320/vial.
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 02:26 PM
Nov 2021

But not all insulins are created equal. The newer stuff is much more convenient - and - I think make blood glucose easier to control. But most of the insulin analogs were developed around the around, or the original pricing mentioned.

So it isn't the $320 that is incorrect - it is assertion that it is "the same vial" that is incorrect.

George II

(67,782 posts)
25. Right. I guess what I should have said is the $21 vial isn't $320 today, it's $25. In fact....
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 02:55 PM
Nov 2021

...(not a doctor or pharmacist) the $320 vial does more or is more effective or has less side effects or something.

It's like saying last year a coach ticket on American Airlines was $119 to Miami and now the first class ticket is $800.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
32. Now, I'm absolutely CERTAIN that Bernie wouldn't try to mislead people intentionally...
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 06:09 PM
Nov 2021

... so I just wonder how it is that he could make a mistake like that. I mean, these are facts that can be easily checked... and thusly confirmed OR refuted. Who is his "fact-checker"? Whoever the person was that was careless enough to allow him to make such an OBVIOUS mistake should be FIRED immediately.

Poor Bernie... I'm sure he's embarrassing. I guess the old axiom "you just can't get good help these days" applies to politicians' staffers and fact-checkers in the same way it applies to ordinary people. (Sigh.)

Ms. Toad

(34,154 posts)
24. Who knows.
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 02:30 PM
Nov 2021

But it's a popular mantra that insulin, which has been around forever, is now priced sky high. Most people don't realized the evolution of insulin over time.

I have been around diabetics (both T1 and T2) all my life - including one recently who still uses the $25 vials of insulin, and one who is using the much more expensive analog insulin.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
28. It doesn't seem possible that Bernie would be so careless...
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:40 PM
Nov 2021

... or that he'd intentionally be dishonest by trying to compare two different things. Especially with something like this that can so easily be verified by people who know what they're talking about.

It's amazing what politicians do. All I know is that if *I* was tweeting out something like that, I'd be absolutely certain that I've got my FACTS CORRECT. Something like this isn't subjective or up to "interpretation". These are hard-cold figures that are being tossed out there.

Have a great weekend, Ms. Toad 🐸 😘🥰💖🍷

ratchiweenie

(7,757 posts)
4. Isn't Joe Manchin's daughter the one who ownes the company that makes that $320 vial of insulin.
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 11:45 AM
Nov 2021

Not gonna happen.

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
12. Even that is a false flag whine. Open competition is also another one of the drug companies
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 12:20 PM
Nov 2021

great fears. Price controls is a lie as what is intended is price caps slightly south of 1k% profit…but price controls sounds sooo much more scary socialist.

Drug companies supplying every other country in the world with both patented drugs and generics are still making plenty of profit, but American companies want to make much more profit, all without breaking a collective sweat.

Lazy fks.

Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #12)

ratchiweenie

(7,757 posts)
43. Which would be fine if we weren't paying for their reseach and if we weren't paying more for the
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 10:29 PM
Nov 2021

drugs (who's research and development we paid for) than every other country in the world.

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
45. Don't mind paying for the research, do mind paying for the windfall profits and extended
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 11:01 AM
Nov 2021

patent protection followed by monopolistic behaviour to keep prices high and generics off physicians prescription pads.

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
49. Government labs could do the same research...is that too socialist though?
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 03:19 PM
Nov 2021

I mean it’s the same scientists government could hire, there’s no magical private for profit business only scientist.

Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Elessar Zappa

(14,162 posts)
10. The cost of insulin is absolutely criminal.
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 12:04 PM
Nov 2021

That said, I think the insulin available in 96 was different than the rapid acting insulin we have now.

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
16. This makes me both sad and MAD,
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 12:42 PM
Nov 2021

considering that Drs. Banting and Best sold their medical lifesaver to Connaught Labs at the University of Toronto in 1921 for just $1. They could never have imagined that diabetic Americans would have to pay $320/per dose, just to stay alive.

It really is Criminal.

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
11. Outrageous...still 19 dollars in Canada..pure American greed at its evil best...and all made
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 12:16 PM
Nov 2021

legal by a corrupted past congress…weren’t “both sides” involved?

Such any easy thing to change, wtf is so hard?

JT45242

(2,332 posts)
17. Comparing to other countries makes you relaize how badly we are price gouged
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 12:48 PM
Nov 2021

Source : https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cost-of-insulin-by-country



Insulin Costs Around the World.
To compare some insulin prices between countries around the world, the types of insulin must be considered. All prices below are the out-of-pocket cost in dollars per milliliter ($/mL).


Apidra (Rapid-Acting Insulin)
United States: $6.00
Dominican Republic: $1.33
Poland $1.00
Cyprus: $0.03
Argentina, Austria, Italy: $0.00
Humalog (Rapid-Acting Insulin)
United States: $13.47
Chile: $6.95
Canada: $3.16
Brazil: $2.57
India: $2.30
Japan: $2.00
Rwanda: $0.10
France, Italy, Lithuania, Portugal: $0.00
Novorapid/Novolog (Rapid-Acting Insulin)
United States: $9.20
Singapore: $4.80
Syrian Arab Republic: $3.03
India: $2.39
Egypt: $2.13
South Africa: $0.74
Australia: $0.60
Austria: $0.48

Uncle Joe

(58,625 posts)
31. I hear you JT, check out this urgent call to action from the Mayo Clinic on the high cost of insulin
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:55 PM
Nov 2021

dated from 2020.



Alec Smith was 23 when he was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. He
worked as a restaurant manager in
Minnesota. At age 26, he could no longer
stay on his mother’s health care insurance
plan and needed to find his own coverage.
On June 1, 2017, he was on his own. The insurance available to him came with a $7600
deductible and a monthly premium of
approximately $440.1 Because he could not
afford this, Alec decided to temporarily
forego insurance coverage and purchase insulin with cash. Unfortunately for him, the
cash price of insulin was far beyond his
means.2 He decided to try and ration the
amount of insulin he took till he had enough
savings to purchase insurance. Sadly, on
June 27, 2017, he was found dead in his
apartment of diabetic ketoacidosis.

The most commonly used forms of analog
insulin cost 10 times more in the United States
than in any other developed country.3 There
have been many other recent reports of deaths
in patients with type 1 diabetes because of lack
of affordable insulin.4,5 The high prevalence of
diabetes, the chronic lifelong nature of the disease, and the fact that patients with type 1 diabetes will die without access to insulin make
this an urgent problem that must be solved
expeditiously. The price of insulin is also a
stark and troubling example of the rising cost
of prescription drugs in the United States and
highlights a systemic problem with how drugs
are priced compared with every other commodity.6,7 This commentary will address the
reasons for the high cost of insulin and
examine possible solutions. By understanding
and solving this problem, we can create a roadmap that brings much needed reform and fairness to the existing system and helps make all
prescription drugs more affordable.

Reasons for the High Cost of Insulin

The number 1 reason for the high cost of
insulin is the presence of a vulnerable population that needs insulin to survive
(Table 1).
This population, which numbers in the millions,14 is willing to pay anything to have
access to a lifesaving drug. The desperate
need for a lifesaving product allows insulin
to be priced at high levels because it is not
a luxury item that one can forego. The manufacturers of insulin know that patients who
need it will spend whatever it takes to
acquire it, regardless of price. It is a matter
of life and death.

Second, there is virtual monopoly on insulin that has been sustained for decades.
Three companies, Novo Nordisk, SanofiAventis, and Eli Lilly control most of the
market.2 Until recently, almost every insulin product sold in the United States was
made by these 3 companies. They still
continue to have a monopolistic hold on
an essential product, with limited competition, and no regulations in effect to cap or
control prices.11

(snip)

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(19)31008-0/pdf



Voltaire2

(13,331 posts)
51. Mayo Clinic? What do they know about healthcare?
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 11:22 AM
Nov 2021

We got us real experts who are busy explaining why price gouging is excellent.

momta

(4,083 posts)
19. So, if my math is right (always an iffy proposition)...
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 01:31 PM
Nov 2021

Minimum wage in 1996 was $4.75. Now it is $7.25. So once you take out taxes...

You would be spending ALMOST ALL of your $400 in increased wages on your diabetes medication. Meanwhile everything else in your life costs more too.

mathematic

(1,441 posts)
55. If you make minimum wage you qualify for medicaid (thanks obama) and it's virtually free
Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:05 PM
Nov 2021

Around 25% of the country is on medicaid.

George II

(67,782 posts)
26. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, not by me, Sanders is comparing the price of one version....
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 03:13 PM
Nov 2021

...of insulin, one of the least expensive, back in 1996 to the price of a new version of insulin in 2018. The two prices are NOT for "the same vial".

It's like saying the price of a car in 1996 was $8,000 and the price of a car in 2018 was $85,000, not mentioning that the 1996 car was a Yugo and the 2018 car is a Cadillac.

Plus, why is he going back to 2018 for his price and not 2021? Has the price gone down since 2018?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,431 posts)
33. The price for the same insulin did increase from $21 in 1996 to $275 in 2017
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:29 PM
Nov 2021

After they were sued for price gouging, Eli Lilly produced a generic version for $137.

Between 2009 and 2017 the wholesale price of a single vial of Humalog, the Eli Lilly and Co.-manufactured insulin Gilmer uses, nearly tripled — rising from $92.70 to $274.70, according to data from IBM Watson Health.
...
Last October in Minnesota, state Attorney General Lori Swanson sued insulin manufacturers, alleging price gouging. Pharmaceutical executives were grilled about high drug prices by the Senate Finance Committee on Feb. 26.

This is the backdrop for Lilly’s announcement last week that it is rolling out a half-priced, generic version of Humalog called “insulin lispro.” The list price: $137.35 per vial.
...
At $137.35 per vial, Lilly’s generic insulin is priced at about the same level as Humalog was in 2012, 16 years after it came to market.

https://khn.org/news/how-much-difference-will-eli-lillys-half-price-insulin-make/


Current:

the list price of a Humalog U-100 10 mL (1,000 units) vial is $274.70

https://www.lillypricinginfo.com/humalog

So, no, this is nothing like a Yugo/Cadillac comparison. Forget that - it's bullshit.

George II

(67,782 posts)
36. The tweet says $320, not $274.70 or 137.35, and it says "the same vial"! That's simply not true....
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:45 PM
Nov 2021

You may not agree with me but my pointing that out is not "bullshit"!

Cost for one vial of insulin in 1996: $21


Cost for the same vial of insulin in 2018: $320



muriel_volestrangler

(101,431 posts)
37. Your Yugo/Cadillac analogy remains bullshit
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 07:58 PM
Nov 2021

June 2020:

Today, although a vial of insulin is estimated to cost no more than US $3 to $6 to produce,³ its skyrocketing price has threatened access to the drug. A vial of Humalog (insulin lispro), which cost $21 in 1996, now costs $250 to $400.⁴

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341808658_Expensive_Insulin-The_Epicenter_of_a_Large_Life-Threatening_Problem

Yes, as you point out in bold, the same vial.

I'm glad you are more invested in quibbling about a tweet within the range of easily findable articles agreeing with a politician on our side, than thinking about the price gouging. It makes it all so clear.

Ms. Toad

(34,154 posts)
40. The cost of a vial of Humalog today ranges from $48.85 (CVS)
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:12 PM
Nov 2021

to $141 (Discount Drug Mart, Meijer, Costco, and several others).

https://www.goodrx.com/humalog

muriel_volestrangler

(101,431 posts)
41. And when I look at the most recent archive of that page
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:24 PM
Nov 2021

(because the live page is not available outside the US) it says their retail prices are $163 to $213, unless you have coupons. Or $220 by mail order - relevant because some people may not be within reach of the pharmacies offering discounts.

https://web.archive.org/web/20211028055344/https://www.goodrx.com/humalog

Selling life-saving drugs via coupons and special offers is obscene in its own way.

The official list price is $275.

Ms. Toad

(34,154 posts)
42. You print the coupons from the website
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 08:39 PM
Nov 2021

Pretty much everyone in the US is within driving distance of at least one of:

CVS
Disount DrugMart
Walgreens
Costco
Meijer
Kroger
Target
RiteAid
Giant Eagle
Walmart
Hy-Vee
Bakers
Safeway
Albertsons
Smith's
King Soopers
Wegmans
Acme
Kmart
(and more I didn't bother to search for).

Every geographic location I checked had at least a dozen pharmacies listed.

GoodRx works for pretty much any prescription drug. It's not specific to humalog. GoodRx is used by a lot of folks in the US who don't have access to insurance (or for medications not covered by insurance) to save a bit of money.

You can also find it in stores and through mailorder for $45, $70, 116.32. (Mail order pharmaices randomly selected).

In other words, it is readily available anywhere in the United states fo rless than half the price you are quoting.

Ms. Toad

(34,154 posts)
48. I was responding to the poster who responded to me -
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 02:12 PM
Nov 2021

who was trying to pick holes in my suggestion that the OP was misleading.

Silent3

(15,463 posts)
30. 60% base rate of inflation over that time, so the non-insane-price-gouging price would be $33.61
Fri Nov 5, 2021, 04:49 PM
Nov 2021

At $320, that's 9.5 times the inflation for everything else.

BannonsLiver

(16,551 posts)
53. The clout chasing
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 11:30 AM
Nov 2021

Displayed in a few responses in the thread is predictably tiresome. Have seen the same thing play out with the pandemic.

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