General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVoltaire2
(13,331 posts)Innovation is too risky, capturing markets and extracting profits is a much safer way to make money.
"Rentier capitalism is a term currently used to describe the belief in economic practices of monopolization of access to any kind of property (physical, financial, intellectual, etc.) and gaining significant amounts of profit without contribution to society."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_capitalism
harumph
(1,925 posts)when trying to make sense of our economy - also "rent seeking behavior" by capital.
Thank you for mentioning it.
Ms. Toad
(34,154 posts)That it is the same vial of insulin.
You can still purchase the insulin which was available in 1996 for about $25 at Walmart. Most of what was available in 1996 was synthetic human insulin. Much of what is available now (and more expensive) are insulin analogs. (The earlier versions were nearly all needle and vial delivery, as opposed to the more convenient (and costly) pre-measured single dose delivery systems.)
I'm not disputing that the cost of the more common insulin today is outrageous, but it is disingenuous to say the dramatic increase is for the same vial of insulin.
marybourg
(12,653 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,154 posts)But not all insulins are created equal. The newer stuff is much more convenient - and - I think make blood glucose easier to control. But most of the insulin analogs were developed around the around, or the original pricing mentioned.
So it isn't the $320 that is incorrect - it is assertion that it is "the same vial" that is incorrect.
George II
(67,782 posts)...(not a doctor or pharmacist) the $320 vial does more or is more effective or has less side effects or something.
It's like saying last year a coach ticket on American Airlines was $119 to Miami and now the first class ticket is $800.
Ms. Toad
(34,154 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... so I just wonder how it is that he could make a mistake like that. I mean, these are facts that can be easily checked... and thusly confirmed OR refuted. Who is his "fact-checker"? Whoever the person was that was careless enough to allow him to make such an OBVIOUS mistake should be FIRED immediately.
Poor Bernie... I'm sure he's embarrassing. I guess the old axiom "you just can't get good help these days" applies to politicians' staffers and fact-checkers in the same way it applies to ordinary people. (Sigh.)
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Doesn't he have fact checkers and proofreaders?
Ms. Toad
(34,154 posts)But it's a popular mantra that insulin, which has been around forever, is now priced sky high. Most people don't realized the evolution of insulin over time.
I have been around diabetics (both T1 and T2) all my life - including one recently who still uses the $25 vials of insulin, and one who is using the much more expensive analog insulin.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... or that he'd intentionally be dishonest by trying to compare two different things. Especially with something like this that can so easily be verified by people who know what they're talking about.
It's amazing what politicians do. All I know is that if *I* was tweeting out something like that, I'd be absolutely certain that I've got my FACTS CORRECT. Something like this isn't subjective or up to "interpretation". These are hard-cold figures that are being tossed out there.
Have a great weekend, Ms. Toad 🐸 😘🥰💖🍷
muriel_volestrangler
(101,431 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,431 posts)rickyhall
(4,889 posts)Anything more than that is criminal.
ratchiweenie
(7,757 posts)Not gonna happen.
Ms. Toad
(34,154 posts)and she was president & CEO, not the owner.
malaise
(269,442 posts)against price controls for drugs
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)great fears. Price controls is a lie as what is intended is price caps slightly south of 1k% profit
but price controls sounds sooo much more scary socialist.
Drug companies supplying every other country in the world with both patented drugs and generics are still making plenty of profit, but American companies want to make much more profit, all without breaking a collective sweat.
Lazy fks.
malaise
(269,442 posts)Nice post
Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #12)
malaise This message was self-deleted by its author.
ratchiweenie
(7,757 posts)drugs (who's research and development we paid for) than every other country in the world.
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)patent protection followed by monopolistic behaviour to keep prices high and generics off physicians prescription pads.
ratchiweenie
(7,757 posts)Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)I mean its the same scientists government could hire, theres no magical private for profit business only scientist.
ratchiweenie
(7,757 posts)Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)
malaise This message was self-deleted by its author.
Elessar Zappa
(14,162 posts)That said, I think the insulin available in 96 was different than the rapid acting insulin we have now.
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)considering that Drs. Banting and Best sold their medical lifesaver to Connaught Labs at the University of Toronto in 1921 for just $1. They could never have imagined that diabetic Americans would have to pay $320/per dose, just to stay alive.
It really is Criminal.
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)legal by a corrupted past congress
werent both sides involved?
Such any easy thing to change, wtf is so hard?
calimary
(81,632 posts)BSdetect
(9,000 posts)JT45242
(2,332 posts)Source : https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cost-of-insulin-by-country
Insulin Costs Around the World.
To compare some insulin prices between countries around the world, the types of insulin must be considered. All prices below are the out-of-pocket cost in dollars per milliliter ($/mL).
Apidra (Rapid-Acting Insulin)
United States: $6.00
Dominican Republic: $1.33
Poland $1.00
Cyprus: $0.03
Argentina, Austria, Italy: $0.00
Humalog (Rapid-Acting Insulin)
United States: $13.47
Chile: $6.95
Canada: $3.16
Brazil: $2.57
India: $2.30
Japan: $2.00
Rwanda: $0.10
France, Italy, Lithuania, Portugal: $0.00
Novorapid/Novolog (Rapid-Acting Insulin)
United States: $9.20
Singapore: $4.80
Syrian Arab Republic: $3.03
India: $2.39
Egypt: $2.13
South Africa: $0.74
Australia: $0.60
Austria: $0.48
Uncle Joe
(58,625 posts)dated from 2020.
Alec Smith was 23 when he was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. He
worked as a restaurant manager in
Minnesota. At age 26, he could no longer
stay on his mothers health care insurance
plan and needed to find his own coverage.
On June 1, 2017, he was on his own. The insurance available to him came with a $7600
deductible and a monthly premium of
approximately $440.1 Because he could not
afford this, Alec decided to temporarily
forego insurance coverage and purchase insulin with cash. Unfortunately for him, the
cash price of insulin was far beyond his
means.2 He decided to try and ration the
amount of insulin he took till he had enough
savings to purchase insurance. Sadly, on
June 27, 2017, he was found dead in his
apartment of diabetic ketoacidosis.
The most commonly used forms of analog
insulin cost 10 times more in the United States
than in any other developed country.3 There
have been many other recent reports of deaths
in patients with type 1 diabetes because of lack
of affordable insulin.4,5 The high prevalence of
diabetes, the chronic lifelong nature of the disease, and the fact that patients with type 1 diabetes will die without access to insulin make
this an urgent problem that must be solved
expeditiously. The price of insulin is also a
stark and troubling example of the rising cost
of prescription drugs in the United States and
highlights a systemic problem with how drugs
are priced compared with every other commodity.6,7 This commentary will address the
reasons for the high cost of insulin and
examine possible solutions. By understanding
and solving this problem, we can create a roadmap that brings much needed reform and fairness to the existing system and helps make all
prescription drugs more affordable.
Reasons for the High Cost of Insulin
The number 1 reason for the high cost of
insulin is the presence of a vulnerable population that needs insulin to survive (Table 1).
This population, which numbers in the millions,14 is willing to pay anything to have
access to a lifesaving drug. The desperate
need for a lifesaving product allows insulin
to be priced at high levels because it is not
a luxury item that one can forego. The manufacturers of insulin know that patients who
need it will spend whatever it takes to
acquire it, regardless of price. It is a matter
of life and death.
Second, there is virtual monopoly on insulin that has been sustained for decades.
Three companies, Novo Nordisk, SanofiAventis, and Eli Lilly control most of the
market.2 Until recently, almost every insulin product sold in the United States was
made by these 3 companies. They still
continue to have a monopolistic hold on
an essential product, with limited competition, and no regulations in effect to cap or
control prices.11
(snip)
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(19)31008-0/pdf
Voltaire2
(13,331 posts)We got us real experts who are busy explaining why price gouging is excellent.
momta
(4,083 posts)Minimum wage in 1996 was $4.75. Now it is $7.25. So once you take out taxes...
You would be spending ALMOST ALL of your $400 in increased wages on your diabetes medication. Meanwhile everything else in your life costs more too.
mathematic
(1,441 posts)Around 25% of the country is on medicaid.
George II
(67,782 posts)...of insulin, one of the least expensive, back in 1996 to the price of a new version of insulin in 2018. The two prices are NOT for "the same vial".
It's like saying the price of a car in 1996 was $8,000 and the price of a car in 2018 was $85,000, not mentioning that the 1996 car was a Yugo and the 2018 car is a Cadillac.
Plus, why is he going back to 2018 for his price and not 2021? Has the price gone down since 2018?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,431 posts)After they were sued for price gouging, Eli Lilly produced a generic version for $137.
...
Last October in Minnesota, state Attorney General Lori Swanson sued insulin manufacturers, alleging price gouging. Pharmaceutical executives were grilled about high drug prices by the Senate Finance Committee on Feb. 26.
This is the backdrop for Lillys announcement last week that it is rolling out a half-priced, generic version of Humalog called insulin lispro. The list price: $137.35 per vial.
...
At $137.35 per vial, Lillys generic insulin is priced at about the same level as Humalog was in 2012, 16 years after it came to market.
https://khn.org/news/how-much-difference-will-eli-lillys-half-price-insulin-make/
Current:
https://www.lillypricinginfo.com/humalog
So, no, this is nothing like a Yugo/Cadillac comparison. Forget that - it's bullshit.
George II
(67,782 posts)You may not agree with me but my pointing that out is not "bullshit"!
Link to tweet
muriel_volestrangler
(101,431 posts)June 2020:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341808658_Expensive_Insulin-The_Epicenter_of_a_Large_Life-Threatening_Problem
Yes, as you point out in bold, the same vial.
I'm glad you are more invested in quibbling about a tweet within the range of easily findable articles agreeing with a politician on our side, than thinking about the price gouging. It makes it all so clear.
George II
(67,782 posts)Voltaire2
(13,331 posts)why ditching drug price reform is a good thing.
Ms. Toad
(34,154 posts)to $141 (Discount Drug Mart, Meijer, Costco, and several others).
https://www.goodrx.com/humalog
muriel_volestrangler
(101,431 posts)(because the live page is not available outside the US) it says their retail prices are $163 to $213, unless you have coupons. Or $220 by mail order - relevant because some people may not be within reach of the pharmacies offering discounts.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211028055344/https://www.goodrx.com/humalog
Selling life-saving drugs via coupons and special offers is obscene in its own way.
The official list price is $275.
Ms. Toad
(34,154 posts)Pretty much everyone in the US is within driving distance of at least one of:
CVS
Disount DrugMart
Walgreens
Costco
Meijer
Kroger
Target
RiteAid
Giant Eagle
Walmart
Hy-Vee
Bakers
Safeway
Albertsons
Smith's
King Soopers
Wegmans
Acme
Kmart
(and more I didn't bother to search for).
Every geographic location I checked had at least a dozen pharmacies listed.
GoodRx works for pretty much any prescription drug. It's not specific to humalog. GoodRx is used by a lot of folks in the US who don't have access to insurance (or for medications not covered by insurance) to save a bit of money.
You can also find it in stores and through mailorder for $45, $70, 116.32. (Mail order pharmaices randomly selected).
In other words, it is readily available anywhere in the United states fo rless than half the price you are quoting.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)No coupons needed.
Ms. Toad
(34,154 posts)who was trying to pick holes in my suggestion that the OP was misleading.
Silent3
(15,463 posts)At $320, that's 9.5 times the inflation for everything else.
George II
(67,782 posts)Voltaire2
(13,331 posts)Amazing.
BannonsLiver
(16,551 posts)Displayed in a few responses in the thread is predictably tiresome. Have seen the same thing play out with the pandemic.