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CousinIT

(9,277 posts)
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 10:17 AM Nov 2021

What Collective Narcissism Does to Society

In everyday settings, it can keep people from listening to one another. At its worst, it might fuel violence.

In 2005, the psychologist Agnieszka Golec de Zavala was researching extremist groups, trying to understand what leads people to commit acts of terrorist violence. She began to notice something that looked a lot like what the 20th-century scholars Theodor Adorno and Erich Fromm had referred to as “group narcissism”: Golec de Zavala defined it to me as “a belief that the exaggerated greatness of one’s group is not sufficiently recognized by others,” in which that thirst for recognition is never satiated. At first, she thought it was a fringe phenomenon, but important nonetheless. She developed the Collective Narcissism Scale to measure the severity of group-narcissistic beliefs, including statements such as “My group deserves special treatment” and “I insist upon my group getting the respect that is due to it” with which respondents rate their agreement.

Sixteen years later, Golec de Zavala is a professor at SWPS University, in Poland, and a lecturer at Goldsmiths, University of London, leading the study of group narcissism—and she’s realized that there’s nothing fringe about it. This thinking can happen in seemingly any kind of assemblage: a religious, political, gender, racial, or ethnic group, but also a sports team, club, or cult. Now, she said, she’s terrified at how widely she’s finding it manifested across the globe.

Collective narcissism is not simply tribalism. Humans are inherently tribal, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Having a healthy social identity can have an immensely positive impact on well-being. Collective narcissists, though, are often more focused on out-group prejudice than in-group loyalty. In its most extreme form, group narcissism can fuel political radicalism and potentially even violence. But in everyday settings, too, it can keep groups from listening to one another, and lead them to reduce people on the “other side” to one-dimensional characters. The best way to avoid that is by teaching people how to be proud of their group—without obsessing over recognition.

Groups may differ in their narrative about why they are superior—they might believe that they’re the most moral, the most culturally sophisticated, the most talented, the most powerful, or the most protective of democratic values. They may think that their greatness is God’s will, or that they’ve earned it through exceptional suffering in the past. Regardless, collective narcissists are resentful of other groups, and hypersensitive to perceived intergroup threat. As a result, collective narcissism often breeds prejudice. In one study, for instance, participants in Poland who rated high in collective narcissism were more likely to hold anti-Semitic beliefs. In other research conducted on Americans, high collective-narcissism scores predicted negative attitudes toward Arab immigrants.


https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/11/group-narcissism/620632/
51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What Collective Narcissism Does to Society (Original Post) CousinIT Nov 2021 OP
"belief that exaggerated greatness of one's group is not sufficiently recognized by others," Hortensis Nov 2021 #1
Now I understand the Squad. Tomconroy Nov 2021 #2
I doubt it. ret5hd Nov 2021 #3
+1 n/t ariadne0614 Nov 2021 #33
It made me think of white and male supremacy movements and Trump Cult, recent Tea Party movement CousinIT Nov 2021 #4
And certain religious groups PatSeg Nov 2021 #12
And social networks online enable them to find or recruit many, many others for their group. tblue37 Nov 2021 #22
Yes, so much easier today than years ago PatSeg Nov 2021 #47
Yea I'm related to one of those evangelicals. Other sibling is a men's rights activist - hates women CousinIT Nov 2021 #30
Fear and hate seem to be great motivators PatSeg Nov 2021 #49
+1 n/t ariadne0614 Nov 2021 #34
The ModSquad? Cobalt Violet Nov 2021 #7
Agreed n/t Devil Child Nov 2021 #8
Could you be confusing a deep commitment to one's values with narcissism? dlk Nov 2021 #14
Nope. Not at all. paleotn Nov 2021 #16
Please tell me what you understand nt Javaman Nov 2021 #17
I understand these people voted against the infrastructure bill and wasted everyone's time Tomconroy Nov 2021 #20
Ah I see, so you don't believe that a person's convictions Javaman Nov 2021 #21
I believe politics is the art of the possible and if you have any political skills you Tomconroy Nov 2021 #23
Politics in a democracy is the art of compromise. murielm99 Nov 2021 #24
And that is exactly what they did, or did you miss that Javaman Nov 2021 #26
Yes. The squad would have killed it. And when the BBB bill that Tomconroy Nov 2021 #35
I have a bridge for you cheap. Javaman Nov 2021 #38
Watch what happens in the spring (because Joe Manchin wants a Tomconroy Nov 2021 #39
Thank you ..... H2O Man Nov 2021 #41
Here's what actually happened Friday night: Tomconroy Nov 2021 #42
I'm well aware. H2O Man Nov 2021 #43
Ah. The Don Draper move! Tomconroy Nov 2021 #44
Gracious. H2O Man Nov 2021 #45
I'll give it a shot. Regards. Tomconroy Nov 2021 #46
Au contraire. KPN Nov 2021 #18
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Nov 2021 #36
Narcissism I_UndergroundPanther Nov 2021 #5
Can't argue w/ that! n/t CousinIT Nov 2021 #6
Narcissism, greed, corruption. Irish_Dem Nov 2021 #11
Sociology of groups creates psychology of individuals sanatanadharma Nov 2021 #9
I would add blame to sports, media, music, employer hierarchies bucolic_frolic Nov 2021 #10
This is true PatSeg Nov 2021 #15
Naracissism, whether individual or collective is a a cancer dlk Nov 2021 #13
In my mind, one antidote is.... paleotn Nov 2021 #19
KNR and bookmarking niyad Nov 2021 #25
"lead them to reduce people on the "other side" to one-dimensional characters" Sympthsical Nov 2021 #27
Ancient wisdom I believe Uncle Joe Nov 2021 #28
Facebook is a magnet for narcissists Qutzupalotl Nov 2021 #29
It was started by one, too. n/t CousinIT Nov 2021 #31
How so very true. I and my other half are proud of the fact that we aren't on FB, or other ... SWBTATTReg Nov 2021 #37
It goes beyond politics malletgirl02 Nov 2021 #32
The very notion of white male "supremacy" is absurd on its face. ariadne0614 Nov 2021 #40
So many leaders of so many organizations are narcissists. milestogo Nov 2021 #48
Very interesting article ymetca Nov 2021 #50
I'm not so sure that further studies about collective... Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2021 #51

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
1. "belief that exaggerated greatness of one's group is not sufficiently recognized by others,"
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 10:29 AM
Nov 2021

"Collective narcissism is not simply tribalism. ... Collective narcissists, though, are often more focused on out-group prejudice than in-group loyalty. In its most extreme form, group narcissism can fuel political radicalism..."

Though these days major focus on out-group prejudice doesn't necessarily indicate toxic development of group narcissism. Or does it? For a forum that doesn't allow hate or extremism...

Thanks, CousinIT. Always something worth reading in The Atlantic. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a subscription renewed each Christmas.

CousinIT

(9,277 posts)
4. It made me think of white and male supremacy movements and Trump Cult, recent Tea Party movement
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 10:45 AM
Nov 2021

etc.

The massive 'blacklash' since a black man was elected POTUS. The minority-but-dominant 'in-group' of white conservatives are SO very angry and afraid that their minority rule is threatened, then installed Trump, and went back to Jim Crow voter suppression and complete destruction of voting rights (and with that, Democracy) all across the nation.

"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." - David Frum

PatSeg

(47,772 posts)
12. And certain religious groups
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 11:45 AM
Nov 2021

who consider themselves superior to other religions and non-religious people. So superior that they will try to destroy democracy or any group or government that does not agree with them. For THEY are the chosen people. Some will even kill for their beliefs.

It would seem that narcissistic groups happen when an individual narcissist is too insecure to oppose others on their own. So they seek out like-minded people and find strength in numbers, while justifying their own intolerance and self-absorbed beliefs. In the process, they undoubtedly become even more intolerant and judgmental, because they now have external validation. Of course, there are also those who are just gullible and get recruited into such groups. Weak minds are easily manipulated to fear and hate.

CousinIT

(9,277 posts)
30. Yea I'm related to one of those evangelicals. Other sibling is a men's rights activist - hates women
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:06 PM
Nov 2021

Both of them hate government.

Both of them are members of political and social groupings of others with similar beliefs. Both voted Trump and one would have damn well voted for Youngkin if she lived there. She is the suburban housewife, no college degree, white, driven by fear, racist as hell and married to patriarchy and all the benefits that she gets from that by association.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
20. I understand these people voted against the infrastructure bill and wasted everyone's time
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 12:21 PM
Nov 2021

For the last three months.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
23. I believe politics is the art of the possible and if you have any political skills you
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 12:30 PM
Nov 2021

Figure out early on what is possible and live to fight another day.

Javaman

(62,540 posts)
26. And that is exactly what they did, or did you miss that
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 12:39 PM
Nov 2021

Do you honestly believe that voted the way they did not knowing that 13 republicans were going to vote for it?

If you believe that, then I have a bridge to sell you.

And because the repubs voted for it, they were allowed to vote via their convictions

Thats how Congress works.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
35. Yes. The squad would have killed it. And when the BBB bill that
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:23 PM
Nov 2021

Joe Manchin writes in the Senate comes back to the House for a vote there won't be any Republicans to pass it.

Javaman

(62,540 posts)
38. I have a bridge for you cheap.
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:33 PM
Nov 2021

Last edited Sun Nov 7, 2021, 02:57 PM - Edit history (2)

We’re done and you choose not to understand how congress works

Have fun smashing your head repeatedly in to the wall because… I have know idea why.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
39. Watch what happens in the spring (because Joe Manchin wants a
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:37 PM
Nov 2021

pause). We will go through this crap all over again.

H2O Man

(73,709 posts)
43. I'm well aware.
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 03:37 PM
Nov 2021

Thank you, though. And that's a wonderful item to discuss, should anyone want to post yet another OP to rehash the numerous discussions on exactly that. Yet, it obviously as nothing to do with the OP here. Perhaps in that context, you could expand on your equally obvious attempt to score a goal by ignoring what the OP actually is about, and focus on explaining how, exactly, you think it was important for you to inject it into an otherwise important discussion? Thanks in advance!

H2O Man

(73,709 posts)
45. Gracious.
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 04:16 PM
Nov 2021

I have to admit that you have me there, Tom. I haven't read any fiction since 10th grade, and as we are about the same age, I think you can identiy approximately how many years that has been. For there are, I as noted in post #36, many, many great works on the reality we are confronted with today.

But you clearly lack interest in any real discussion about, in an OP/thread about one of those very important issues -- complete with references to the very serious books about the topic -- you had an irresistable urge to post a poorly planned insult directed towards four of the best advocates of the general public serving in DC today. This reminds me of a 1974 John Lennon quote: "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."

Again, I urge you to read but a single chapter about the important issue noted in the OP, which I supplied in post #36. You just might find that you both like and agree with the manner in which the authors explain their insights.

H2O Man

(73,709 posts)
36. Respectfully disagree.
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:30 PM
Nov 2021

I would venture that your comment actually illustrates a lack of understanding of the very real concept that one of DU's most respected thinkers posted. There is always that risk when one attempts a snide comment about a topic that one has no familiarity with or understanding of. Such examples of self-exposure rarely turn out well.

As the DU community's resident student of Erich Fromm, and most capable of referring others to Fromm's most important works, I hesitate to suggest any of them at this point. Instead, let's go with a sinle chapter of a book that influence Theodor Adorno's thinking. It's "The Culture Industry: Enlightenment as Mass Deception," from Adorno & Horkheimer's 1947 "Dialect of Deception." I think that not only would you enjoy it, but it would help you to begin to understand the Trump cult. And even a shallow understanding of this topic is essential in this day and age, and might even hold the key to keeping Democrats from losing focus on what the stumbling blocks to successfully confronting the dire threats to our society.

sanatanadharma

(3,761 posts)
9. Sociology of groups creates psychology of individuals
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 11:16 AM
Nov 2021

Confusion about the border of personal self-identity and social-national-ethnic-identity give rise to problems.
These confusions of self and otherness create problems; some feel their own personal existence is attacked when their chosen sports team is dissed.

Healthy humans know that anyone's personal existence is equal to any others'.
It is by actions that people, groups, nations, societies differentiate. Results vary, but every life-form eats, sleeps, mates, and defends, in multitudinous ways.

I can feel belittled by others who differ, only by believing that I have no inherent self-worth.
If one claims that self-tribal value exists on a sliding scale (a continuum), they must accept (need not like) that they can be anywhere along that scale from bestiality to humanity. Believing I am a saint doesn't make it so.

Believing in one's greatness does make it so.
The soul is great only if that greatness is absolute and true of all souls.
Societies are collections of souls.


bucolic_frolic

(43,520 posts)
10. I would add blame to sports, media, music, employer hierarchies
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 11:23 AM
Nov 2021

People look up and want to be right about everything. The whole narcissistic system is primed from an early age.

PatSeg

(47,772 posts)
15. This is true
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 11:57 AM
Nov 2021

I don't think it happens naturally, but is part of a system that encourages it as you say from an early age.

Competitive sports is an excellent example. I read a couple old Utopian books recently and in one, competitive sports were not allowed probably because it fostered hate, disunity, and ultimately warfare. I believe it was A Modern Utopia by H.G. Wells.

dlk

(11,606 posts)
13. Naracissism, whether individual or collective is a a cancer
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 11:54 AM
Nov 2021

We can see, more and more each day, how deeply it is rotting our country.

paleotn

(18,015 posts)
19. In my mind, one antidote is....
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 12:20 PM
Nov 2021

accepting the failures as well of as the triumphs of one's group. It's not meant to degrade anyone's group, like the arguments from the right against teaching about racism pure and unvarnished. It teaches us that we're all human and all groups are equally capable of wondrous things and incredible horrors. Then again, that would take an open mind.

Had a relative back in the late 70's who was huge into our family genealogy. Busily writing everything down that they could before the old folks died and took their information with them. But, whenever I'd make a crack about Iranians due to the whole hostage slog going on at the time, he'd remind me that when our ancestors lived in stone hovels, running around stealing each others cattle, the Persians had the most advanced civilization on earth.

Sympthsical

(9,194 posts)
27. "lead them to reduce people on the "other side" to one-dimensional characters"
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 12:42 PM
Nov 2021

Sounds familiar.

Yep. God I wish I had my copy of Ezra Klein's "Why We're Polarized." Lent it to a classmate. It cites a study in it that basically showed the more partisan a Democrat or Republican you are, the less you actually know about your political opponents.

Look at the reactions to Virginia. The more I read here, the more I ground my teeth a little. I kept going, "No, that is not what those people were thinking. No, that is not what they are like."

But the caricature is just so much easier to address, rationalize, and dismiss than the idea that people are complicated and have their reasons for things. Better to go with the parody. Then you don't have to worry about it so much.

We make straw men of our opponents. They do it, too. Anyone excessively partisan is likely to do this with their opponents.

It's just not helpful, but social media have done wonders to reinforce the behavior.

Uncle Joe

(58,565 posts)
28. Ancient wisdom I believe
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 12:56 PM
Nov 2021

Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 16:18

Thanks for the thread CousinIT.

Qutzupalotl

(14,344 posts)
29. Facebook is a magnet for narcissists
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:04 PM
Nov 2021

(Look at my kid! Look at my food! Look at my house!) and quickly became a haven of prejudice.

SWBTATTReg

(22,222 posts)
37. How so very true. I and my other half are proud of the fact that we aren't on FB, or other ...
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:33 PM
Nov 2021

platforms (except DU, which sometimes we restrain ourselves from being on so much, but hard to do sometimes). Oftentimes we don't even carry our cell phones w/ us (or leave in the cars).

Staying off of the Internet is sometimes hard to do, but the two of us and our cast of friends would rather meet up in person, chat with others in person to keep our minds busy and active, on our own merits and not via the online stories of others so much. Of course these stories are important, but there is value in meeting up w/ people face-to-face, and sharing experiences, so there is a fine line to travel on, and a lot of people don't know how to do this. How many times have you gone out and look around you, and see that 10 out of the 11 people in the room are on their cell phones?

Online bullying is very prevalent and shows up in many different ways. This bullying sometimes includes those those who tend to hog conversations and/or casually dismiss others for what they believe in or said. Only they and only them (the bullies) have valid points, and no one else. Isn't everyone else's conversations just as important as the bullies and their points?

Remember, After all, your values, your lives, your cred is just as important as those that are online constantly preaching about theirs. Maybe this is why djt is fading away into the background...everybody is getting sick and tired of listening to often repeated over and over again crap. He's beginning to sound like a record track that has been damaged and is stuck on one track.

malletgirl02

(1,523 posts)
32. It goes beyond politics
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:15 PM
Nov 2021

There is an often unrecognized prejudice against single people. Unmarried people are immature, and people like me who never been in a relationship aren't even considered human. I have a great deal of empathy for people are different from me, but it makes me angry when my empathy isn't returned. It makes me feel used. It is hard to want to listen to others when I am not listened to.

ariadne0614

(1,747 posts)
40. The very notion of white male "supremacy" is absurd on its face.
Sun Nov 7, 2021, 01:57 PM
Nov 2021
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
_Voltaire

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
50. Very interesting article
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 12:05 AM
Nov 2021

Helps in understanding how the sociological interacts with the psychological. Interesting take.

Which brings us naturally to our oldest social problem --who will commit violence to stop the violence?

Turn the other cheek - meet Liberty Valance!

It's a conundrum.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,860 posts)
51. I'm not so sure that further studies about collective...
Mon Nov 8, 2021, 01:08 AM
Nov 2021

... narcissism would be well-received on DU.

Racial implications of the narcissistic personality inventory reinterpreting popular depictions of narcissism trends
https://www.oatext.com/pdf/JPP-2-106.pdf

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