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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat Collective Narcissism Does to Society
In everyday settings, it can keep people from listening to one another. At its worst, it might fuel violence.Sixteen years later, Golec de Zavala is a professor at SWPS University, in Poland, and a lecturer at Goldsmiths, University of London, leading the study of group narcissismand shes realized that theres nothing fringe about it. This thinking can happen in seemingly any kind of assemblage: a religious, political, gender, racial, or ethnic group, but also a sports team, club, or cult. Now, she said, shes terrified at how widely shes finding it manifested across the globe.
Collective narcissism is not simply tribalism. Humans are inherently tribal, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. Having a healthy social identity can have an immensely positive impact on well-being. Collective narcissists, though, are often more focused on out-group prejudice than in-group loyalty. In its most extreme form, group narcissism can fuel political radicalism and potentially even violence. But in everyday settings, too, it can keep groups from listening to one another, and lead them to reduce people on the other side to one-dimensional characters. The best way to avoid that is by teaching people how to be proud of their groupwithout obsessing over recognition.
Groups may differ in their narrative about why they are superiorthey might believe that theyre the most moral, the most culturally sophisticated, the most talented, the most powerful, or the most protective of democratic values. They may think that their greatness is Gods will, or that theyve earned it through exceptional suffering in the past. Regardless, collective narcissists are resentful of other groups, and hypersensitive to perceived intergroup threat. As a result, collective narcissism often breeds prejudice. In one study, for instance, participants in Poland who rated high in collective narcissism were more likely to hold anti-Semitic beliefs. In other research conducted on Americans, high collective-narcissism scores predicted negative attitudes toward Arab immigrants.
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/11/group-narcissism/620632/
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)"Collective narcissism is not simply tribalism. ... Collective narcissists, though, are often more focused on out-group prejudice than in-group loyalty. In its most extreme form, group narcissism can fuel political radicalism..."
Though these days major focus on out-group prejudice doesn't necessarily indicate toxic development of group narcissism. Or does it? For a forum that doesn't allow hate or extremism...
Thanks, CousinIT. Always something worth reading in The Atlantic. I'm still waiting for someone to give me a subscription renewed each Christmas.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)ret5hd
(20,565 posts)CousinIT
(9,277 posts)etc.
The massive 'blacklash' since a black man was elected POTUS. The minority-but-dominant 'in-group' of white conservatives are SO very angry and afraid that their minority rule is threatened, then installed Trump, and went back to Jim Crow voter suppression and complete destruction of voting rights (and with that, Democracy) all across the nation.
"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." - David Frum
PatSeg
(47,772 posts)who consider themselves superior to other religions and non-religious people. So superior that they will try to destroy democracy or any group or government that does not agree with them. For THEY are the chosen people. Some will even kill for their beliefs.
It would seem that narcissistic groups happen when an individual narcissist is too insecure to oppose others on their own. So they seek out like-minded people and find strength in numbers, while justifying their own intolerance and self-absorbed beliefs. In the process, they undoubtedly become even more intolerant and judgmental, because they now have external validation. Of course, there are also those who are just gullible and get recruited into such groups. Weak minds are easily manipulated to fear and hate.
tblue37
(65,552 posts)PatSeg
(47,772 posts)So many vulnerable and gullible people in the world.
CousinIT
(9,277 posts)Both of them hate government.
Both of them are members of political and social groupings of others with similar beliefs. Both voted Trump and one would have damn well voted for Youngkin if she lived there. She is the suburban housewife, no college degree, white, driven by fear, racist as hell and married to patriarchy and all the benefits that she gets from that by association.
PatSeg
(47,772 posts)for so many people. It seems to energize some people.
ariadne0614
(1,747 posts)Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)dlk
(11,606 posts)They are different.
paleotn
(18,015 posts)and stop turning them into one dimensional characterizations.
Javaman
(62,540 posts)Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)For the last three months.
Javaman
(62,540 posts)Mean anything?
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Figure out early on what is possible and live to fight another day.
murielm99
(30,787 posts)Javaman
(62,540 posts)Do you honestly believe that voted the way they did not knowing that 13 republicans were going to vote for it?
If you believe that, then I have a bridge to sell you.
And because the repubs voted for it, they were allowed to vote via their convictions
Thats how Congress works.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Joe Manchin writes in the Senate comes back to the House for a vote there won't be any Republicans to pass it.
Javaman
(62,540 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 7, 2021, 02:57 PM - Edit history (2)
Were done and you choose not to understand how congress works
Have fun smashing your head repeatedly in to the wall because
I have know idea why.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)pause). We will go through this crap all over again.
H2O Man
(73,709 posts).... for confirming Javaman's point.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)How a $1 Trillion Infrastructure Bill Survived an Intraparty Brawl https://nyti.ms/3CUr2Qu
H2O Man
(73,709 posts)Thank you, though. And that's a wonderful item to discuss, should anyone want to post yet another OP to rehash the numerous discussions on exactly that. Yet, it obviously as nothing to do with the OP here. Perhaps in that context, you could expand on your equally obvious attempt to score a goal by ignoring what the OP actually is about, and focus on explaining how, exactly, you think it was important for you to inject it into an otherwise important discussion? Thanks in advance!
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 7, 2021, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)
H2O Man
(73,709 posts)I have to admit that you have me there, Tom. I haven't read any fiction since 10th grade, and as we are about the same age, I think you can identiy approximately how many years that has been. For there are, I as noted in post #36, many, many great works on the reality we are confronted with today.
But you clearly lack interest in any real discussion about, in an OP/thread about one of those very important issues -- complete with references to the very serious books about the topic -- you had an irresistable urge to post a poorly planned insult directed towards four of the best advocates of the general public serving in DC today. This reminds me of a 1974 John Lennon quote: "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words."
Again, I urge you to read but a single chapter about the important issue noted in the OP, which I supplied in post #36. You just might find that you both like and agree with the manner in which the authors explain their insights.
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)KPN
(15,679 posts)H2O Man
(73,709 posts)I would venture that your comment actually illustrates a lack of understanding of the very real concept that one of DU's most respected thinkers posted. There is always that risk when one attempts a snide comment about a topic that one has no familiarity with or understanding of. Such examples of self-exposure rarely turn out well.
As the DU community's resident student of Erich Fromm, and most capable of referring others to Fromm's most important works, I hesitate to suggest any of them at this point. Instead, let's go with a sinle chapter of a book that influence Theodor Adorno's thinking. It's "The Culture Industry: Enlightenment as Mass Deception," from Adorno & Horkheimer's 1947 "Dialect of Deception." I think that not only would you enjoy it, but it would help you to begin to understand the Trump cult. And even a shallow understanding of this topic is essential in this day and age, and might even hold the key to keeping Democrats from losing focus on what the stumbling blocks to successfully confronting the dire threats to our society.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,511 posts)Is the biggest threat to humanity,after climate change.
CousinIT
(9,277 posts)Irish_Dem
(48,120 posts)sanatanadharma
(3,761 posts)Confusion about the border of personal self-identity and social-national-ethnic-identity give rise to problems.
These confusions of self and otherness create problems; some feel their own personal existence is attacked when their chosen sports team is dissed.
Healthy humans know that anyone's personal existence is equal to any others'.
It is by actions that people, groups, nations, societies differentiate. Results vary, but every life-form eats, sleeps, mates, and defends, in multitudinous ways.
I can feel belittled by others who differ, only by believing that I have no inherent self-worth.
If one claims that self-tribal value exists on a sliding scale (a continuum), they must accept (need not like) that they can be anywhere along that scale from bestiality to humanity. Believing I am a saint doesn't make it so.
Believing in one's greatness does make it so.
The soul is great only if that greatness is absolute and true of all souls.
Societies are collections of souls.
bucolic_frolic
(43,520 posts)People look up and want to be right about everything. The whole narcissistic system is primed from an early age.
PatSeg
(47,772 posts)I don't think it happens naturally, but is part of a system that encourages it as you say from an early age.
Competitive sports is an excellent example. I read a couple old Utopian books recently and in one, competitive sports were not allowed probably because it fostered hate, disunity, and ultimately warfare. I believe it was A Modern Utopia by H.G. Wells.
dlk
(11,606 posts)We can see, more and more each day, how deeply it is rotting our country.
paleotn
(18,015 posts)accepting the failures as well of as the triumphs of one's group. It's not meant to degrade anyone's group, like the arguments from the right against teaching about racism pure and unvarnished. It teaches us that we're all human and all groups are equally capable of wondrous things and incredible horrors. Then again, that would take an open mind.
Had a relative back in the late 70's who was huge into our family genealogy. Busily writing everything down that they could before the old folks died and took their information with them. But, whenever I'd make a crack about Iranians due to the whole hostage slog going on at the time, he'd remind me that when our ancestors lived in stone hovels, running around stealing each others cattle, the Persians had the most advanced civilization on earth.
niyad
(113,967 posts)Sympthsical
(9,194 posts)Sounds familiar.
Yep. God I wish I had my copy of Ezra Klein's "Why We're Polarized." Lent it to a classmate. It cites a study in it that basically showed the more partisan a Democrat or Republican you are, the less you actually know about your political opponents.
Look at the reactions to Virginia. The more I read here, the more I ground my teeth a little. I kept going, "No, that is not what those people were thinking. No, that is not what they are like."
But the caricature is just so much easier to address, rationalize, and dismiss than the idea that people are complicated and have their reasons for things. Better to go with the parody. Then you don't have to worry about it so much.
We make straw men of our opponents. They do it, too. Anyone excessively partisan is likely to do this with their opponents.
It's just not helpful, but social media have done wonders to reinforce the behavior.
Uncle Joe
(58,565 posts)Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:18
Thanks for the thread CousinIT.
Qutzupalotl
(14,344 posts)(Look at my kid! Look at my food! Look at my house!) and quickly became a haven of prejudice.
CousinIT
(9,277 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,222 posts)platforms (except DU, which sometimes we restrain ourselves from being on so much, but hard to do sometimes). Oftentimes we don't even carry our cell phones w/ us (or leave in the cars).
Staying off of the Internet is sometimes hard to do, but the two of us and our cast of friends would rather meet up in person, chat with others in person to keep our minds busy and active, on our own merits and not via the online stories of others so much. Of course these stories are important, but there is value in meeting up w/ people face-to-face, and sharing experiences, so there is a fine line to travel on, and a lot of people don't know how to do this. How many times have you gone out and look around you, and see that 10 out of the 11 people in the room are on their cell phones?
Online bullying is very prevalent and shows up in many different ways. This bullying sometimes includes those those who tend to hog conversations and/or casually dismiss others for what they believe in or said. Only they and only them (the bullies) have valid points, and no one else. Isn't everyone else's conversations just as important as the bullies and their points?
Remember, After all, your values, your lives, your cred is just as important as those that are online constantly preaching about theirs. Maybe this is why djt is fading away into the background...everybody is getting sick and tired of listening to often repeated over and over again crap. He's beginning to sound like a record track that has been damaged and is stuck on one track.
malletgirl02
(1,523 posts)There is an often unrecognized prejudice against single people. Unmarried people are immature, and people like me who never been in a relationship aren't even considered human. I have a great deal of empathy for people are different from me, but it makes me angry when my empathy isn't returned. It makes me feel used. It is hard to want to listen to others when I am not listened to.
ariadne0614
(1,747 posts)_Voltaire
milestogo
(16,829 posts)There is little true leadership.
ymetca
(1,182 posts)Helps in understanding how the sociological interacts with the psychological. Interesting take.
Which brings us naturally to our oldest social problem --who will commit violence to stop the violence?
Turn the other cheek - meet Liberty Valance!
It's a conundrum.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,860 posts)... narcissism would be well-received on DU.
Racial implications of the narcissistic personality inventory reinterpreting popular depictions of narcissism trends
https://www.oatext.com/pdf/JPP-2-106.pdf