Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Solly Mack

(90,795 posts)
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 03:39 PM Dec 2022

African-Germans During the Holocaust

The Nazis viewed Afro-Germans—children with one African parent and one German parent—as a threat to the purity of the Germanic race. In his 1925 autobiography, Mein Kampf (My Struggle), Adolf Hitler charged that “the Jews had brought the Negroes into the Rhineland with the clear aim of ruining the hated white race by the necessarily-resulting bastardization.”

Once the Nazi regime came to power, Afro-Germans were marginalized in German society, isolated socially and economically, and not allowed to attend university. Racial discrimination prohibited them from seeking most jobs. By the end of 1937, the Gestapo had secretly rounded up and forcibly sterilized many Afro-Germans. Some were subjected to medical experiments; others mysteriously “disappeared.”


Black people fought against Nazi Germany in World War II as members of the Allied militaries. Black prisoners of war faced imprisonment and mistreatment at the hands of the German military, who did not uphold the regulations imposed by the Geneva Convention (international agreement on the conduct of war and the treatment of wounded and captured soldiers). Black soldiers of the American, French, and British armies were worked to death on construction projects or died as a result of mistreatment in concentration or prisoner-of-war camps. Others were never incarcerated but were instead immediately killed by the SS or Gestapo.





Although no exact figures exist, it is known that a significant number of black people were detained in concentration camps and forced labour camps during the Nazi reign, and that many were murdered. Nonetheless, there seems to be little interest in Hitler’s black victims. Their plight is not talked about enough. This is partly because unlike Jews, Roma and Sinti, black people were not marked for destruction. But they were denied their human rights, sterilised, persecuted, experimented upon and murdered in camps.

This racist philosophy underpinned the decision to deny German citizenship to people of African descent, thus complicating their employment prospects and their ability to get by in society. Being born in Germany did not make the slightest difference. Nazi fears of “racial pollution” led to the traumatic break-up of many mixed-race families. The derogatory term Rheinlandbastard (Rhineland bastard) was used to describe children from interracial relationships. They were viewed as symbols of racial “disgrace”, and many were forcibly sterilised to prevent “alien blood” from being passed on.


Nazis were virulent racists. In 1935, after the enactment of the notorious Nuremberg racial laws *, which designated black people as a minority with “alien blood”, many left Germany. Those who remained were isolated and suffered horrendous racial abuse. And while the exclusion of black children from public schools became official policy in 1941, it is a matter of record that they had long suffered racist abuse in their classrooms.




* Nuremberg Laws:

On September 15, 1935, the Nazi regime announced two new laws:

1 - The Reich Citizenship Law
2 - The Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor

Did the Nuremberg Laws apply to other groups?

Yes. While initially focused on Jews, the Nazi government clarified that the Nuremberg Laws also applied to Roma (also called Gypsies), Black people, and their descendants. They could not be full citizens of Germany. Nor could they marry or have sexual relations with “people of German or related blood.”



Oh, and Hitler did not invent highways. Nor did he invent the microphone. Shocker, I know.




31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
African-Germans During the Holocaust (Original Post) Solly Mack Dec 2022 OP
Kind of brings a new dynamic to the role of Sergeant James Kinchloe in Hogan's Heroes. TheBlackAdder Dec 2022 #1
Yes. He would have been shot on sight. Or put into a camp where he would have been worked to death. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #2
Hitler would have a heart attack if he could see them malaise Dec 2022 #4
Anything that could have given him a massive coronary prior to 1933 would have been great. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #9
Those in German Town got here during the war malaise Dec 2022 #10
I thought Germans migrated to Jamaica prior to that. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #12
You are correct - about 300 came after Emancipation malaise Dec 2022 #13
Were any of the POWs allowed to stay? I know the US had two POW camps in Jamaica. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #15
I was of the view that some did but malaise Dec 2022 #18
Just curious. Thanks! I'll do some more reading. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author malaise Dec 2022 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author malaise Dec 2022 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author malaise Dec 2022 #5
The Nazis kept records of everything - even of the people they killed FakeNoose Dec 2022 #3
I'm sure there are records but even the records we do know of don't tell the complete story. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #7
Regarding microphones... SoBlueInFL Dec 2022 #6
A German-American invented the microphone in 1877, so all microphones are "German", so to speak. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #8
I think I'd prefer to say that they are American. r/o SoBlueInFL Dec 2022 #16
I agree, actually. But that he was an immigrant is important, I think. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #17
He also wasn't a vegetarian. That's another Nazi lie. Coventina Dec 2022 #19
Exactly that kind of thing, yes. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #21
Agreed. The whole socialism thing really irks me too. Coventina Dec 2022 #22
Yep. He wrote about it and said it. Yet idiots still claim otherwise. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #23
Goebbels was the big socialist true believer, if somewhat contorted in his interpretations. DFW Dec 2022 #28
Thank you. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #29
I'm sure Republicans will not want this taught in our schools. tclambert Dec 2022 #24
That would be funny if it wasn't true. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #25
But Kayne said Hitler was a good guy! NickB79 Dec 2022 #26
Ignorance lies. Hate lies. Bigotry lies. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #27
There are vestiges of that mentality left, but it is dying out fast. DFW Dec 2022 #30
I found that to be the majority case when I lived in Germany. Solly Mack Dec 2022 #31

TheBlackAdder

(28,239 posts)
1. Kind of brings a new dynamic to the role of Sergeant James Kinchloe in Hogan's Heroes.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 03:47 PM
Dec 2022

.

Tatted up Neo-Nazis would have been shot on sight by the Getapo or SS or sent to the Russian Front.

That's the irony.

.

malaise

(269,239 posts)
4. Hitler would have a heart attack if he could see them
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 04:00 PM
Dec 2022

in German Town, Westmoreland, JA or Portland, JA

malaise

(269,239 posts)
13. You are correct - about 300 came after Emancipation
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 04:48 PM
Dec 2022

to the Seaford estate/known as German town, but there are more from WW2

malaise

(269,239 posts)
18. I was of the view that some did but
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 06:19 PM
Dec 2022

I’m double checking that. I know some of them worked in the US to reduce labor shortages. There were quite a few POW camps here.

Solly Mack

(90,795 posts)
20. Just curious. Thanks! I'll do some more reading.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 06:24 PM
Dec 2022

I was thinking about responding in one of the threads about Kanye's idiotic rant of ignorance and hate but felt facts would better serve as a rebuttal. Not that facts make a difference to some people. Still.

Response to Solly Mack (Reply #12)

Response to Solly Mack (Reply #9)

Response to Solly Mack (Reply #2)

FakeNoose

(32,841 posts)
3. The Nazis kept records of everything - even of the people they killed
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 03:58 PM
Dec 2022

They were obsessed with keeping records of all the people they persecuted and killed. So there had to be records of the African-Germans too. If the records can't be found, then it means they were destroyed in the war. A lot of stuffed burned up in the final bombings.

Solly Mack

(90,795 posts)
7. I'm sure there are records but even the records we do know of don't tell the complete story.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 04:14 PM
Dec 2022

People disappeared, assumed dead. A record of destroying a village, leaving a mass grave behind doesn't tell you who all died. That takes DNA, eyewitnesses who knew the dead, etc..

The assumption would be everyone living in that village but that doesn't really tell you the names of everyone. Or that all of the dead lived in that village.

People are still uncovering records from that time. More information is still coming out. And, yes, a lot of things did burn up in the bombings.

In France, the NAZIS came to one town, rounded up the adults while the children were in school, then they went to the school. A woman I know was a student at the school, along with her younger brother.

They ran and hid in the woods beside the school. They watched as people were lined up, both children and adults, and then shot.

She and her brother eventually made it to England and then to America and then to the state of Georgia, where I met her through her children.

She told her story. Said they didn't even bury the dead, just moved on to the next town where they continued their butchering.





SoBlueInFL

(191 posts)
6. Regarding microphones...
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 04:05 PM
Dec 2022

Here's a funny anecdote from Cosimo Matassa of J & M Records, New Orleans:

Did you use any old Telefunken mics back in those days?

Yeah. In fact I had a very dear friend who was a member of a conservative Jewish congregation. You know there's kind of a contest between them, who's got the best cantor. Somebody heard, "This is the world's best microphone," so they bought one. Then people in the congregation said, "We don't think we ought to be using the German microphone." My friend said, "I'll take it. I know somebody who could use it." That was the original U-47.


[link:https://tapeop.com/interviews/40/cosimo-matassa/|

I always loved that story!

Solly Mack

(90,795 posts)
8. A German-American invented the microphone in 1877, so all microphones are "German", so to speak.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 04:23 PM
Dec 2022

And American.

The story is amusing.

SoBlueInFL

(191 posts)
16. I think I'd prefer to say that they are American. r/o
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 04:58 PM
Dec 2022

But, the Telefunken mics were Nazi preferred. I can only imagine the Rabbi's horror when someone ordered one.

Solly Mack

(90,795 posts)
17. I agree, actually. But that he was an immigrant is important, I think.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 05:04 PM
Dec 2022

Immigrants being under attack all the time.

Yes, all things NAZI associated would be horrifying. Even now, it still causes unease though some brands used by the NAZIS remain popular today.



Coventina

(27,219 posts)
19. He also wasn't a vegetarian. That's another Nazi lie.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 06:22 PM
Dec 2022

And I'm sick of it being repeated.

Especially when it's intended to imply that vegetarians are evil.

Solly Mack

(90,795 posts)
21. Exactly that kind of thing, yes.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 06:28 PM
Dec 2022

As well as he was a socialist. When he murdered and put socialists into camps. Using the name only to attract the working class.

Coventina

(27,219 posts)
22. Agreed. The whole socialism thing really irks me too.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 06:35 PM
Dec 2022

He hated the Russians for being communists.
He intentionally targeted their citizens for that.

DFW

(54,465 posts)
28. Goebbels was the big socialist true believer, if somewhat contorted in his interpretations.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 07:10 PM
Dec 2022

"The social is a stopgap. Socialism is the ideology of the future"

"England is a capitalist democracy. Germany is a socialist people's state"

"Capitalism is the immoral distribution of capital"

"Money has made slaves of us… Money is the curse of mankind. It smothers the seed of everything great and good"

"Lenin is the greatest man, second only to Hitler, and that the difference between Communism and the Hitler faith is very slight"

All quotes from Göbbels, not Hitler.

tclambert

(11,087 posts)
24. I'm sure Republicans will not want this taught in our schools.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 06:39 PM
Dec 2022

Because it might hurt the feelings of one of their major voting blocs--the Nazis.

Solly Mack

(90,795 posts)
25. That would be funny if it wasn't true.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 06:41 PM
Dec 2022

White supremacy demands the truth be stifled or rewritten to blame the victims or where white people were somehow the poor, misunderstood hero.

DFW

(54,465 posts)
30. There are vestiges of that mentality left, but it is dying out fast.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 07:22 PM
Dec 2022

Many half-African Germans and children of black US soldiers are 100% German citizens and no one even blinks any more. This was not the case even 30 years ago, but times have definitely changed here. There are 100% African homicide detectives in crime series on TV here speaking German with no foreign accent at all. One worker at a friend's firm was the daughter of a German mother and a Nigerian father. One time, a customer remarked on how good her German was, and she said, "well, that's probably because I am German." Of course, that exact same dialogue has occurred with my two daughters when meeting Germans in America, so it isn't limited to mixed background people here. At any rate, that shut him up real fast, and it never came up (as far as she told me, anyway) again from anyone else, either inside or outside the company. Germans with some (or all) African blood are just too numerous to be considered "exotic" any more. Since the (West German) media and the entertainment industry have been fairly inclusive long before the general public was, the general public didn't have to stretch a lot to get to acceptance. If you speak the language fluently, and without an accent, you get accepted pretty quickly here, whether one of your parents was from Bujumbura or Bremen.

Solly Mack

(90,795 posts)
31. I found that to be the majority case when I lived in Germany.
Thu Dec 1, 2022, 07:36 PM
Dec 2022

Turks and East Germans, on the other hand, my goodness. Folks had a lot to say about both and little of it nice. Though most of it was about the social services they received - a rant on people (immigrants/others) viewed as undeserving getting help from the government is almost never without a degree of obvious bigotry involved. Same as in America.

I lived in Mannheim for several years.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»African-Germans During th...