This is terrorism, and ignoring it any longer is sheer folly

[babylonsister]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/12/17/2142496/-This-is-terrorism-and-ignoring-it-any-longer-is-sheer-folly
 
This is terrorism, and ignoring it any longer is sheer folly
Dartagnan
Community (This content is not subject to review by Daily Kos staff prior to publication.)
Sunday December 18, 2022 · 12:44 AM EST
Share this article


Imagine a former U.S. president who, after being summarily tossed out of office by the electorate, incited a pre-planned, all-out assault on the U.S. Capitol in an effort to overturn the election that removed him -- an assault which resulted in multiple deaths and millions in property damage -- and then doubled down on his rejection from office by enthusiastically propagating a lie that the election was fraudulently decided against him. And then, imagine him sending this message to his base of known violent supporters, after the legal walls began to crash in on him.

"Our Country is SICK inside, very much like a person dying of Cancer. The Crooked FBI, the so-called Department of 'Justice,' and 'Intelligence,' all parts of the Democrat Party and System, is the Cancer. These Weaponized Thugs and Tyrants must be dealt with, or our once great and beautiful Country will die!!

It’s far long past time that this country stop treating this person as it has been treating him for the past two years— as some sort of distressing anomaly or curiosity to be tolerated and managed, and instead treat him like any other person who makes calculated, violent threats against our justice system and the people who uphold it. Trump occupies a peculiar place in our history, one that should by any reasonable measure hold him to a higher standard of behavior. That is an implicit bargain that an elected official submits to — willingly or not — when he is placed in an office of public trust. The fact that Trump refuses to accept that precept doesn’t negate it; rather, it makes its enforcement all the more critical.

We have to stop coddling this guy or making excuses for him. We have to stop tolerating the excuses others make for him. He’s a menace, a clear and present danger, deliberately trying to be cute and clever by couching his terminology in a twisted and grotesque simulation of what he thinks will pass as “patriotism.” And wrapping himself in the cloak of what he thinks will pass muster as “free speech.”

But this isn’t patriotic. Read it again in the context of someone who incited an insurrection against a lawful election, and keeping in mind the person who is saying this, his position, and his implicit (and explicit) duty and responsibility:

The Crooked FBI, the so-called Department of 'Justice,' and 'Intelligence,' all parts of the Democrat Party and System, is the Cancer. These Weaponized Thugs and Tyrants must be dealt with, or our once great and beautiful Country will die!!

And please don’t pretend that “dealt with” means anything less than what is obvious. This isn’t a message of complaint or protest against government overreach or malfeasance, in the context of who is delivering it. It is a threat, from a former president and a now-declared candidate for the same office.

This is sedition, and it’s an evocation — and exhortation — to violence and terrorism to achieve that. 

Garland and Smith, please. Do. Your. Jobs.

[DeeDeeNY]

1. And consequences for the 147 who voted against certification

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/07/us/elections/electoral-college-biden-objectors.html

[Alexander Of Assyria]

8. It's not terrorism in the absence of hate speech laws! Why does no one get that??

[KS Toronado]

20. Other than voting them out of office

Is there any consequences for the 147 who voted against certification? Some of these will never get
voted out of office.

[plimsoll]

32. It is absolutely terrorism with or without hate speech ordinances.

It just means there are limited means to prosecute. Slavery was wrong and immoral, regardless of the legality.

[Starfury]

11. And consequences for the 34 Members of Congress who actively worked to overthrow our government.

Undoubtedly more were involved, but these are the ones we know were actively communicating and coordinating with Meadows prior to, during, and (in some cases) even after 1/6. The only thing that saved us is that, by and large, they are all incompetent morons out of touch with reality.


https://talkingpointsmemo.com/feature/mark-meadows-exchanged-texts-with-34-members-of-congress-about-plans-to-overturn-the-2020-election

[Turbineguy]

2. The best thing

is he is charged and escapes to a non-extradition country to a luxurious life, abandoning his rube supporters.

The next best thing is he drops dead from natural causes.

[ChazInAz]

24. Why not both?

[Justice matters.]

25. My take is he's freaking out because his lawyers have been informed that

he is a TARGET in Jack Smith's criminal investigations (both J6 and TS/CSI documents).

That's always how he reacts when he feels cornered: Incite violence against those who 'corner' him.

[gab13by13]

3. Thank you for this thread.

Amen.

I'm sure that people were murdered in foreign countries because we are treating Trump with kid gloves.

It will take a generation or longer to repair the damage that Trump has done.

[kacekwl]

4. Indeed, time to

stop dragging our feet. Nuff said.

[Orrex]

5. Now, now. It's not as if he's an 82 year old black woman who didn't pay her garbage bill

Now THAT'S a serious crime that should suffer full punishment of law.

[mountain grammy]

6. Yes, time to put an end to it all..

Do your jobs, please, or there will be no country left to save..

[WA-03 Democrat]

7. The Crypto Fraud guys are being charged faster

But someone who is rich, foolish and lost money-front of the line. This is unregulated and at least to me, more complex. There is no live video of the crimes or boxes and boxes of confidential state secrets. Hell even the payment to Stormy Daniels for which the one conspirator has already served time after being convicted.

Amazing how our system is so dysfunctional.

There is no law

[Alexander Of Assyria]

9. Crypto Dudes ordinary criminals. Hate speakers fomenting violence are protected by lack of law,

not so much he law.

[WA-03 Democrat]

12. Sorry but there is no regulation around Crypto

We have the first Amendment and its limits are well known. You cannot yell fire in a movie theater when you know there is not one because it will because a riot. Trump yelled “fire” on J6.

Trump, his family and his minions are ordinary criminals who skate free above the law.

Trump has a tee time today

[Alexander Of Assyria]

13. The yell fire in a theatre analogy is a fig leaf. True hate speech laws exist in other nations

that are not.

Google German and Canada hate speech laws!

[TigressDem]

10. OK. LOCK HIM UP is what I just said on another post. It has to be the solution.

IT WILL LEAD TO CIVIL WAR, but that seems to be coming one way or another.


However, I don't think anyone is "coddling him" as much as because we are a country of LAW and ORDER we feel an obligation to have all the evidence presented so NO ONE doubts that this is completely just action and not just some political stunt as it is being portrayed.

THE PROBLEM with that is NO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE will convince the MAGATS that he is guilty.

WE ALL SAW HOW HE STOOD BY AND GAVE COMFORT TO THOSE WHO ATTACKED THE CAPITOL.

And because there are ways to delay the workings of the court that normal people could not/would not use... like appointing judges in case you need a favorable ruling or just refusing to show up in court..... it's taking too much time.


IT'S LIKE PLAYING FOOTBALL and the other team is playing HOCKEY and using LAND MINES in the field.


This country is so divided it isn't even ONE Country anymore. The MAGATS don't LIVE IN REALITY.

Some Republicans are waking up, but there is no place to put their feet that anchors them to reality unless they side with US then they get attacked too.

[slightlv]

18. I don't think anything will happen until the Magats start

blowing buildings up ala Timothy McVeigh en masse. And I wouldn't put it pass them after the hearing on Monday. I expect anything and everything after Monday, except indictment of Trump.

I hate to say it, but after 66 years in this country, all I've seen is this country has been bought and paid for by the richest this country has. They control everything. And they get away with everything. Always have and to my mind, always will. That may change, but it's gonna take a sea change to make it happen. And I don't see the will of the American people making it happen. We can't even get it together enough to have a one day total strike against wage inequality. We're willing to let women die with dead fetuses inside them instead of following doctors recommendations of taking the dead tissue out of their bodies that will allow the women to live. This country is too screwed up. It's like somebody's fed us all acid through the years and we're just now coming out of the trip.

We're already in a civil war, but nobody's recognizing it, and no one's doing a damned thing about it. Trump should be shut away and his microphone should be taken away from him. He IS a clear and present danger. He, DeSantis, and Elon Musk. But then you also have to go deeper and follow the money into Koch, the Federalist Society, the Supreme Court and their Spouses, and now the Evangelical and Dominionist religion sects. The terror groups are wide ranging are so much larger than just the KKK this time around. We've normalized so much since we let Nixon walk to just "heal the nation." It's all been mainstreamed. And a lot of what we consider "cherished rights" may have to change in order to get a handle on the situation. The First Amendment deals with Free Speech and Government. But maybe it's about time we start thinking about restricting what can and can't be said if a society can't police itself in a civilized way. I've about had enough with the racism, misogyny, anti-semitism, and homophobia that's in the news every single day. Maybe it IS time for some people to go back to school to learn what living in a civilized society means. And if they can't, then we're going to have to come to grips with that, and make some sort of alternate arrangements for them, IMNSHO. YMMV. All I know, is we can't keep living under *their* terror.

[Justice matters.]

26. No need to convince the maggots.

Just the Jurors (100% of them) in his criminal trials.

The DC Grand Jury only require a 50% + 1 vote to issue criminal indictments.

[Martin Eden]

14. Most APPALLING is the support this evil creature still has

In one of America's two major parties and its voters.

[LaMouffette]

23. The lack of consequences, combined with unflagging support for Trump from Fox and other right-wing

media are a large reason why Trump's voters still support him.

If they had witnessed Trump being frog-marched out of the White House shortly after January 6 occurred, AND if the hosts at FoxNews had a patriotic bone in their collective body and they had reported the events of January 6 for what it really was: a shameless, brazen, illegal, violent, attempted coup to overthrow democracy, his voters, most of whom are law abiding, would have formed a different opinion of him.

I was pretty young at the time, but I still remember the gravity of Watergate and felt the national outrage surrounding Nixon's actions. It's been stated here and elsewhere before, but it's so true that if Nixon had had FoxNews back then, he never would have resigned or been impeached.

[Martin Eden]

27. Well said.

Fox News, RW media, and the Republican Party drape themselves in the flag, but
They
Do
Not
Have
A
Patriotic
Bone
In
Their
Collective
Bodies

[True Blue American]

40. True, but

Neither do any of the other stations cable and local..I noticed when Mike DeWine and his gang were cheating, using gerrymandered maps the Supreme Court in Ohio ruled illegal the local media ignored all of that. A couple of Republican states gave them enough votes to take over the House.

The media ignored that so do not count on any media to tell you the truth!

[LaMouffette]

43. You are absolutely right. The local media here in Montana are definitely biased in favor of Repubes.

Not surprising, I guess, but still infuriating to have them not call out blatant Republican hypocritical and anti-democratic antics, at either the state or federal level.

[True Blue American]

45. Our Spectrum local is based in Columbus.

They have to stay on the side of the Gang who can not shoot straight, good Roman Catholic boy. Who would cut his Mothers throat if it helped him

[ZonkerHarris]

15. Trump and his followers must be dealt with.

[Lonestarblue]

16. Had something like January 6 happened during the Washington, Adams, or Jefferson

administrations, a perpetrator like Trump would quickly have been tried and sent before a firing squad for execution. Trump instigated an insurrection against the US government via Twitter, a public speech, and on live TV. He has been shown extraordinary deference by the DOJ, both in the J6 investigation and in his theft of top-secret classified documents and subsequent obstruction in refusing to return documents he stole. His crimes are serious and deliberate, not accidental misjudgments. My hope for next year is that we see indictments and trials of Trump and the people who helped plan the overthrow of the government.

[plimsoll]

33. Actually, during 1812 there was an attempted coup.

Madison sent a loyal regiment to take care of it, but none of the participants were charged. Their political careers were ruined, despite everything, even that isn't happening now because the GOP doesn't believe in America anymore.

[Cosmocat]

17. All due respect

A truly righteous rant.

But, 45 is the symptom, not the cause.

He is the festering malignant growth that you have to cut out, but the cancer is the republican party / GOP / conservative movement.

Going on a half a century of their poisonous rhetoric and relentlessless, craven efforts to deconstruct american democracy.

Going back to the advent and popularity of AM radio, to the evangelical movement and christians in general making the deal with the devil in the late 70s and early 80s to join forces with the GOP, to the NRA, again in the 70s a rather benign educational organization, becoming one of the key drivers, to Reagen and his gee, golly shucks approach to pitching fascism, to when they really started to break through with the Nwet Gingrich years in the early 90s, to their electing a mildly affable buffoon as POTUS over an intelligent and decent man, that buffoon falling asleep at the wheel and letting 9-11 happen, but them using that to bully the country into giving them even more power, the losing their minds when BHO was elected, and this country giving them the biggest mid term win in our lives when they ran against THEIR FUCKING FORM OF HEALTHCARE REFORM, which not a single one of them voted for ....

There is so much more I have witnessed - I had heartburn in the 90s seeing where it was headed, and they just got more and more mean and determined.

45 would never have been able to get elected even 20 years ago, but they gave up all the pretenses of their bullshit about the constitution and family values and all that after BHO ...

The point is ... on the odd chance 45 faces justice, there is a never ending line of similarly included fascist goons who they will eagerly get behind, and this country will find a way to support of tolerate, cause ... LIBERALS!

We don't have a chance, not one bit of a chance, until the country sees the R party / GOP / Conservatives for the completely corrupt, power hungry immoral lunatics they are.

[markodochartaigh]

22. The US was so lucky

that the first Strong Leader was such a corrupt and incompetent kkklown. The Republicans were going to have a brokered convention in 2015 to choose another candidate because the corporate Republicans knew exactly what Trump was. But because Trump was so wildly popular with the 80% of their base who are authoritarians, they put party before country and chose Trump. If Trump had been a polished figure and had had the full support of the oligarchs and corporations he almost certainly would have been re-elected, but had the January 6th abortive coup been necessary the coup would almost certainly have been successful. About one third of the US population are authoritarians who have no commitment to democracy if they don't have control, and because of gerrymandering, suppression, disenfranchisement, the electoral college, and two senators per state, their vote counts for more. About one third of the US population will vote against authoritarianism. And about one third don't really care either way as long as they get their hamberders and sportsball, they can't be bothered to vote.

Perhaps if enough people in the unbothered third can be awakened and motivated to vote against authoritarianism, democracy in the US might have a chance. Ignorance and apathy are the Achilles' heels of democracy.

[Cosmocat]

31. Spot on

Been saying the same for decades.

[True Blue American]

41. Bingo!

[onecaliberal]

19. But, but, how do we know? So many have been saying this for years.

Why do we have to wait until everything is nearly as bad as it can get to do something?

[inthewind21]

46. Because

A very LOT of our fellow Americans elect the people who have the ability to change things or keep them the same/make them worse. That's why. And clearly there wasn't an overwhelming number of voters wanting the change/reversal or the House and Senate would be what it is right now. We didn't get here by accident. And where we are shouldn't be surprising, it's been very loudly telegraphed for decades. And believe me, it's not yet "as bad as it can get" it can most certainly get far worse.

[IronLionZion]

21. But he has no political agenda and suffers from mental illness

So he's the real victim here

[TeamProg]

28. K&R Thanks for posting. n/t

[llashram]

29. damn right!

[republianmushroom]

30. like

22 months and counting

[Hermit-The-Prog]

34. He should have been jailed without bail the day the documents came out of his basement.

[panader0]

42. I think he should have been arrested the minute that Biden was sworn in.

We all know that he committed many crimes during his term. They should have had indictments already
in place. But Bill Barr....

[Cha]

35. AG Garland & SC Jack Smith Are

doing Their JOBS!!

Just because those who are impatient in the side lines and don't know what's going on does NOT mean that they're Not doing everything they can to make dt pay for what he's done.

[LuckyLib]

36. The weaponized thugs and tyrants are in your own back pocket,

Mr. Trumpster! Perhaps we get a rescue when you get a huge kick in the ass by the legal system. We’re waiting!

[Evolve Dammit]

37. It is domestic terrorism, and they need to step up quickly. I have almost lost hope in USA. nt

[58Sunliner]

39. He, DT, is a symptom and a cause in a long line of proliferation of domestic terrorism by the GOP.

[moondust]

44. Trying to intimidate J6 Committee and DOJ

ahead of their recommendations and charges?

"I have an army of terrorists at my command that I will turn loose on the country if you even think about charging me."