General Discussion
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(13,303 posts)spanone
(135,633 posts)'If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament' .....Gloria Steinem
niyad
(112,434 posts)a woman cabbdriver with having said it to them. There is a wonderful scene in "The Glorias" depicting this.
Walleye
(30,705 posts)niyad
(112,434 posts)Walleye
(30,705 posts)niyad
(112,434 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)newdayneeded
(1,939 posts)So we should ignore this whole abortion Supreme Court deal then?
The very very very very very few trans men that deliberately planned to have a fetus surgically placed in there stomach doesn't compare to how women can be forced into sex and then have to carry to term based on essentially religious law.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)Trans men don't get fetuses "surgically placed in there stomach." They get pregnant the way women do -- sometimes through forced sex.
newdayneeded
(1,939 posts)unless you're referring to female to male. Then yes, I get that. and in that case I totally agree with you.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)A trans man is someone who was assigned female at birth and has transitioned to male. They may still have a uterus and can get pregnant, but they are men. I have helped provide abortion care to trans men and it's important to include them in any discussion about abortion access, whether it's a throwaway meme or actual policy.
TygrBright
(20,733 posts)I do agree that it's important not to exclude trans men from discussions of pregnancy and its risks, but it's also important to extend a sense of trust and good will to people who may be relying on exclusionary language and concepts only because they lack familiarity with better alternatives.
In the case of men whose bodies contain a uterus, there isn't yet a widely-understood and easy to use language for this discussion. But the discussion remains important.
It's fine to remind people that "Yes, and please don't forget this problem affects some men who have transitioned and still have the biological capability for pregnancy - they often feel excluded."
The fact that it's a relatively small percentage of humans who have the experience doesn't make it invalid.
It does, however, say an awful lot about our instinctive reliance on gender as a definer of identity, which is the root of the problem altogether. But it will be many, many generations before we can leave the concept of gender as a meaningful element of identity behind altogether.
regretfully,
Bright
ShazzieB
(15,952 posts)Yorkie Mom
(16,420 posts)Thank you!
hamsterjill
(15,214 posts)I think to read more in to this is asking a bit much.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)vanlassie
(5,637 posts)Woodwizard
(832 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)it can happen to them if they end up being a father when they did not want to. Seems best to play that part up to get them to understand.
Hope22
(1,641 posts)Probably best if women quit having sex with men for the time being. I think that would be the best way to get them off of their butts to make the calls to DC. I am surrounded by fine men in my family but not one of them makes the calls, writes the emails, sends out the postcards. I am now less than a person in my own country and these men shake their heads and say they understand but that is crap. They do not understand! Their inactions tell me so!
wnylib
(21,146 posts)the only outcome, unfortunately, is that rape would increase.
Is my husband going to rape me? Rape is about anger not sex. If men rape because they arent given sex they need to see a doctor or a prison cell. God gave men two hands for a reason! Trying to scare women into sex with the threat of rape is all kinds of wrong when we have lost control of our right to make our own health care decisions! This isnt just playing around out here. Our right to control our lives has been ripped away from us. This can not go on much longer!
wnylib
(21,146 posts)I also know that for some rapists, the anger is related to being unable to relate well enough with women to get consensual sex. I also know that it is possible for a husband to rape his wife, even though that would not be the case in your marriage.
Men who believe that sex is their entitlement in marriage due to religious teachings or to social conditioning are very capable of claiming their "rights" through rape.
You are absolutely right that rape is not just an issue of getting sex. Rape involves issues of power and control over another person (both same sex and opposite sex) more than just getting sex. There are some paternalistic "nice guys" whose sexual relationships with women in their lives are based on benevolent authority in the relationship. As long as the relationship is harmonious, there is no problem. But, disrupt the harmony and they feel threatened with loss of their benevolent authority role. Threatened with loss of that authority, they will try to claim it with force.
Aside from benevolent authority men, hate-fulled misogynists are very capable of deciding to "teach women a lesson" through rape.
I can remember a time when otherwise "good men" believed that women who were too independent needed a "good f--k" to "loosen up" and become nicer and more human. That attitude is expressed (and was well accepted) in the film Gone With the Wind in the scene where Rhett carries Scarlett to bed after an angry argument. The next morning, she awakens humming and delightfully happy, as if a forceful hand in sex is what she really needed. It's why I have hated that film, along with the racism that it projects about happy, dumb, helpless slaves.
I am NOT fear mongering to frighten women from fighting back for control of our bodies and lives. I am just stating the stark reality of how some men think and act. I would advocate for denial of sex AND armed self protection without hesitation about using it if any guy tried force.
I was once married to a misogynist. I have been a rape crisis advocate for a women's agency. I am aware of rape dynamics. I am also firmly committed to fighting for our rights.
Hope22
(1,641 posts)We have to meet at the next level. What women are currently doing to have their voices heard just isnt cutting it. For the first time in half a century I feel hopeless and angry about what we have come to. We can not move safely into the future without equal rights. Peace and love to you.
Fullduplexxx
(7,818 posts)Hope22
(1,641 posts)Voting is just not cutting it. Gerrymandered states have brought the disfunction that is the House. Dark money flooded Ohios senate race and we were gifted a T#@$& wanna be! It is happening across the country.
Fullduplexxx
(7,818 posts)There are groups out there trying to end gerry mandering You can join one ,
Women make up more than 50% of voters ,this country is yours for the taking . Reach in to the red states build a coalition try to get other women on board With you
Hope22
(1,641 posts)People worked their butts off to get the thing on the ballot! People actually voted to fix the system. Deeming the Ohio representatives responsible for redrawing the failed system. The Rs in charge waited until the last minute to put committees together, refused Dem participation and ran the damn clock out. Somehow the Ohio Supreme Court got involved and sent the maps back to the committees. Quite frankly I cant even tell you where they are at with this now but it will be after the 24 election before any changes. Imagine! What year did the people vote to fix this $@#t ? May 2018. It will be six years before we have a slight chance at anything better. That is a lot of stolen votes.
https://publicintegrity.org/politics/elections/who-counts/ohio-votes-under-extreme-gerrymandering-that-favors-republicans/
https://www.vox.com/2018/5/7/17302388/ohio-issue-1-gerrymandering-redistricting
treestar
(82,383 posts)when it came to women getting the vote?
1848 to 1920. Good thing those women and the men who agreed with them weren't so quick to give up.
treestar
(82,383 posts)like it would be a loss only to men, because sex is for men.
Hope22
(1,641 posts)Weve tried voting, marching, science, constitutional law, equality looks like we are backed into desperation. Sex is for people who treat each other with respect and equality. Free to choose together when, where and how. With abortion, women's health care,financial stability, careers and birth control all on the line I dont think the old line of women taking their power back could ever equate to the age old sex is for men or insinuating that someone is saying women dont like sex or have desire. This whole thing is A LOSS TO EVERYONE! But note to self women have the right to say NO! What is that so hard to understand? We are at the last resort here.
treestar
(82,383 posts)there are men who are on the right side when it comes to these questions. Probably we are not attracted to those who don't. Which ones are to be "punished" with this? Maybe they would not care -- they'd prefer non-feminist women anyway.
And how much marching and voting is too much and other things have to be done? Susan B. Anthony and the other early feminists had to do a lot more of it and some didn't even live to see the 19th Amendment.
Hope22
(1,641 posts)What is happening in the US to women warrants a national day of action at a minimum. I know many good men who wring their hands at this situation. Its just not right. Not looking for punishment ..looking for action.
2naSalit
(86,048 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(143,999 posts)burrowowl
(17,606 posts)housecat
(3,121 posts)fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)Love Cher.
OMGWTF
(3,894 posts)A woman can only produce one child a year no matter how much sex she has.
The Butler
(25 posts)I understand the point you are trying to make but your math is a little off. The Octomom comes to mind and there is Wilt Chamberlain.
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)because they chose in vitro and agreed to have multiple fertilized eggs inserted for implantation.
Skittles
(152,964 posts)?
Paladin
(28,202 posts)vanlassie
(5,637 posts)years ago Im betting shes as aware as any of us about the issues here. Id love to hear her response.
Behind the Aegis
(53,831 posts)Chaz (transman) and Ellijah
vanlassie
(5,637 posts)bucolic_frolic
(42,666 posts)sl8
(13,584 posts)From the surveys I've seen, just as many women are against abortion as are men. Putting all the blame on men seems counter-productive.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)Hope22
(1,641 posts)And they would probably need two weeks in the hospital to recover!😂😁😂
Warpy
(110,903 posts)and yeah, I lit her and Sonny back in the dark ages, club lighting, two shows a night. It was a grind for any performer.
republianmushroom
(13,050 posts)llashram
(6,265 posts)Timeflyer
(1,961 posts)Martin68
(22,671 posts)twodogsbarking
(9,300 posts)Martin68
(22,671 posts)progressoid
(49,825 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)LAS14
(13,749 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)Lisa0825
(14,487 posts)Skittles
(152,964 posts)WITH PAY; yes indeed
Lisa0825
(14,487 posts)Skittles
(152,964 posts)for periods.....yes INDEED