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Whatever happened to the Republican goal to get government off of the backs of Americans? (Original Post) dlk May 2023 OP
Lucre. elleng May 2023 #1
I think the politics of convenience GenThePerservering May 2023 #2
I disagree Skittles May 2023 #4
Some sort of junior-high-level power games GopherGal May 2023 #8
Cruelty is a feature, power is the goal GenThePerservering May 2023 #13
Interesting. H2O Man May 2023 #15
Religious fundies control the majority of the base Matthew28 May 2023 #3
Spot on..... anciano May 2023 #7
It's something they claim to be for while screwing their very base liberal N proud May 2023 #5
It's just something Republicans continue to lie about to the utterly stupid population GoodRaisin May 2023 #6
It was taken over by fascists. roamer65 May 2023 #9
They believe in nothing. OAITW r.2.0 May 2023 #10
Nothing happened to it. It was always - always - a lie. Solly Mack May 2023 #11
It only applies to wealthy Americans. GoCubsGo May 2023 #12
Rule of Men government has always treated freedom as a privilege attached to loyalty. Rule of Law ancianita May 2023 #14
All the talk about power, cruelty, and grievance Thunderbeast May 2023 #16
If you're being serious canetoad May 2023 #17
It was always a lie ExWhoDoesntCare May 2023 #18

GenThePerservering

(1,945 posts)
2. I think the politics of convenience
Fri May 19, 2023, 07:34 PM
May 2023

and power happened.

People keep saying with the GOP "The cruelty is the point".

That's too touchy-feely for this.

The POWER is the point - the cruelty is an unimportant side effect.

GopherGal

(2,012 posts)
8. Some sort of junior-high-level power games
Fri May 19, 2023, 08:21 PM
May 2023

A way of establishing membership of "in" group.

I didn't exactly thrive in the junior-high social environment, but as I remember it, once of the key principles was that the mean kids were for some reason crowned the alphas, but sometimes the meanest were the bandwagon-jumping betas who reinforced the mean words/acts of the alphas perhaps partly in gratitude for not having the alphas' wrath turned upon them.

Well, that was not so much fun that i want to relive it even in order to analyze it... (although if I did so, LBJ's quote about convincing "the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man" would inform my interpretation.)

I guess maybe to the status-insecure, the measure of your status was/is whom you are allowed to be cruel to.

GenThePerservering

(1,945 posts)
13. Cruelty is a feature, power is the goal
Fri May 19, 2023, 11:33 PM
May 2023

Listen - we are talking about a party with no ethics. Cruelty does not exist in their lexicon, because cruelty requires some kind of moral compass to identify it, some kind of idea of what is not cruel.

Power as the ultimate goal means ultimate control, control without conscience - who cares about cruelty? It's just going to come as a matter of course along with death and destruction. What do the powerful care?

H2O Man

(73,785 posts)
15. Interesting.
Fri May 19, 2023, 11:57 PM
May 2023

In this context, I see "power" and "cruelty" as the yellow and blue that combine to make green. But in this case, they mix to make the republican party.

Matthew28

(1,798 posts)
3. Religious fundies control the majority of the base
Fri May 19, 2023, 07:35 PM
May 2023

and they dream of taking society back to the 18th century. Part of doing so is to make everything pure and rob the people of our freedoms.

anciano

(1,058 posts)
7. Spot on.....
Fri May 19, 2023, 07:48 PM
May 2023

It's all about controlling others, which is what organized religion has always been about.

liberal N proud

(60,362 posts)
5. It's something they claim to be for while screwing their very base
Fri May 19, 2023, 07:38 PM
May 2023

They tell their supporters that they are protecting them, while they are robbing them blind.

They have been doing it for so long, the republican base is too numb to realize what is happening

GoodRaisin

(8,945 posts)
6. It's just something Republicans continue to lie about to the utterly stupid population
Fri May 19, 2023, 07:48 PM
May 2023

of their dumb voters who believe anything they say without any evidence of it being true. Nothing is bigger government than inserting restrictive laws into your personal life choices the way Republican government does.

OAITW r.2.0

(24,936 posts)
10. They believe in nothing.
Fri May 19, 2023, 08:46 PM
May 2023

Local government? Nope
Family values? Nope
Power for power's sake? That is what it's all about.




Solly Mack

(90,840 posts)
11. Nothing happened to it. It was always - always - a lie.
Fri May 19, 2023, 09:16 PM
May 2023

Dismantling the administrative state - deregulations, trying to kill off the Department of Education and other regulatory agencies (for example) have always been part and parcel to that lie.

To do so, there has to be an actual intrusive (controlling/authoritarian) central government that controls all aspects of life.

Look at the local level examples - Florida, Texas, other republican majority states.

Sure, they call it freedom but look at the laws they are instituting. All about controlling people - how they think, what they choose, etc..

Look at the energy fails in Texas.

Look at the insurance fails in Florida.

Look at education in both.

Fuck, look at everything in both states. Look at other republican majority states, and what they are passing/trying to pass.

It's not about freedom. It's not about saving/protecting children.


When Grover Norquist talked about shrinking government to drown it in a bathtub, he wasn't talking about small government producing greater freedom - though that was and is the lie.

He was talking about getting rid of the administrative state - with all of its regulations and oversights.

To do so places control of everything under the legislature, which can be gerrymandered and voter suppressed into creating a legislative body that only favors one party/one rule, with the same for the executive. And you have to control the courts to gainsay all the challenges to the point that sooner or later there are no more challenges because people are too afraid or what passes for law eventually bans all dissent/challenges.

And that means control. Control down to the minutiae of people's lives. That means concentrated power into the hands of the very few.

That means authoritarianism. And there's nothing free about that. There's nothing small about that.

It's complete and total intrusion.



GoCubsGo

(32,120 posts)
12. It only applies to wealthy Americans.
Fri May 19, 2023, 09:59 PM
May 2023

The rest of us are there to serve them, so we are to be regulated as much as possible.

ancianita

(36,274 posts)
14. Rule of Men government has always treated freedom as a privilege attached to loyalty. Rule of Law
Fri May 19, 2023, 11:52 PM
May 2023

government has treated those same rule of men as not above the law. That's why rule of men fight so hard against "government" in the rule of law justice, democratic sense.

How the right wing defines government has always been the same -- money buys power and loyalty, might makes right, punch down, and it's the rich man's club and you ain't in it.

Times haven't changed.

Thunderbeast

(3,434 posts)
16. All the talk about power, cruelty, and grievance
Sat May 20, 2023, 02:07 AM
May 2023

Perhaps the oligarchs and oligarchs wannabees in the Republican Party spend a bit of time strategizing about how to leverage political actions....

I see the strength of their party not in the "Big thinkers", but in the rechid number of low-intelligence cretins driving their pickups adorned with Trump and Confederate battle flags and fake testicles hanging from the trailer hitch. We have failed a whole generation by allowing these pawns to enable the white-shoed aristocrats and modem-day plantation owners to leverage the Congress, the courts, and the state legislatures.

canetoad

(17,242 posts)
17. If you're being serious
Sat May 20, 2023, 02:36 AM
May 2023

About deconstructing the administrative state, you can't do it in five minutes. It takes time, planning and administration.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
18. It was always a lie
Sat May 20, 2023, 03:31 AM
May 2023

They have always wanted rich, straight and right-wing christian white men on top, and everyone else to be slaves to them. Anyone who "forgot their place" would be punished, up to and including "reeducation" (slave/concentration) camps. Those who dared to get uppity with their masters? Summary execution.

They may have couched it in dog whistles in the past, but it was easy to follow all of their traitorous blathering to that logical conclusion.

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