Florida has the feel of 1930s Nazi Germany

[RAB910]

[mucifer]

1. It's so scary. Yet, here in Illinois we are going in the opposite direction. Our governor

was one of the founders of the Illinois Holocaust Museum and our state government is protecting Trans rights. Libraries that choose to ban books won't get state funding. Abortion rights have been expanded. Actual American History is taught in schools. Chicago public schools are mandated to teach about our city's history of police torture. There is a state assault rifle ban.

My fear is the "supreme court" will turn all the states into Florida.

[paleotn]

7. Ignore the court.

[MutantAndProud]

11. Some of the states not far from there are also at risk

And many of them have abundances of federal employees and contractors at risk. Not to mention literally everyone else that doesn’t want a gestapo state.

I assume there is a backstop in place given what is known about the influence attempts the GOP has paid for or fallen for. Same with influential members of the media/media industries.

It’s kind of strange how far the pendulum went from the earlier Soviet attempts with the far-far-left many decades ago, and all of the decades of brutality and (pardon) ratfucking and gerrymandering and hacking etc etc since Watergate. The NSO group recently exposed puppeteer strings attached in all kinds of curious places.

Add in AI, which, I know the Democrats are going to try to embrace just like the Republicans will (see history with the advent of Facebook with the success of Obama), and I honestly have no idea what to make about the long term safety and stability of our elections and the way government and governance should operate over the next generation; I can only assume matters are known and discussed regularly, I’m just annoyed that things are hamstrung with committees and appointments right now.

The framers probably didn’t anticipate a World Wide Web, AI, deepfakes, social media, and a number of other things so it’s been interesting times trying to think ahead to say the least. And we’re at the top of the food chain collectively. Consequences abound when that happens I suppose.

[roamer65]

21. I extend greetings from your sister state, Michigan.

[murielm99]

37. Our state legislature has a

supermajority of Democrats. That makes a difference, too.

I am proud of our state.

[kairos12]

75. A sweaty, sun screen smelling version.

[marble falls]

2. Early 1930 Germany without the dirndls and lederhosen.

[SouthernDem4ever]

3. no but Desantis has his gogo boots

I guess that's the new Nazi uniform - other than the white face hoods.

[marble falls]

4. He will actively regret those boots for a very long time. It's be great if he showed up for a ...

... disaster photo-op and he was the only one not wearing food handler boots.

[JanMichael]

5. Kind of reminded me of the silver cowboy boots in Snuff Box

https://www.google.com/search?q=silver+cowboy+boots+snuff+box&client=ms-android-verizon&ei=fUZzZO2eI_7ykPIP_LyxyA0&oq=silver+cowboy+boots+snuff+&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIFCAAQgAQyCAgAEIoFEIYDMggIABCKBRCGAzIICAAQigUQhgMyBQghEKABMgUIIRCgATIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKsCOgoIABBHENYEELADOgoIABCKBRCwAxBDOggIABCABBDJAzoICAAQFhAeEA86BggAEBYQHkoECEEYAFDZD1jCKWCCMmgBcAF4AIAB0QGIAdIJkgEFMC42LjGYAQCgAQHAAQHIARE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

[Xipe Totec]

6. It's "Springtime for Hitler" all over again. nt

[StClone]

88. Humphrey Bogart's movie nexus

The resistance leaders (Democrats, Progressives, Libs), escape from the Vichy-controlled city of Casablanca (Florida) to continue fight against the Germans/Nazis (American Fascists, Magas).


In the movie Key Largo when the criminals take over the establishment (now that be Florida), conflict is inevitable (against De Santis and his ilk).

[lees1975]

8. What's scary is that most people don't see it.

It's been too long ago, disappeared from the headlines and we're really not doing a great job of teaching history.

[mucifer]

10. msm is normalizing it

[taxi]

23. In the rain, beneath a shower of sparks from the overhead power lines on a street in Waikiki,

many stood on the wet street, looking straight up at the transformer. I have no idea how long they stood there watching the sparklers, oohing and aahing with each explosive pop, completely unaware of the risks. Just saying...

[paleotn]

9. A rapidly changing culture is freaking out old white people in FL.

And they've gone full on fascist in response.

[Hortensis]

29. ?? Over 65, 44% lean Republican, 43% lean Democratic.

RW over 65s are not more changed in FL than in the rest of the nation.

Here's another fact: FL chose the Democratic candidate in 3 of the last 6 presidential elections, 2 of the last 4.

On to 2024.

[Celerity]

68. in 2022, DeSantis beat Crist with 65yos and older by 28 points, 64% to 36%. Older MAGAts are pouring

into FL.

Rubio beat Demings with 65+ yos by 25 points, 62-37.

There is not a one per cent point gap between Dems and Rethugs with FL 65+ year olds, they massively tilt to the Rethugs. In fact all voters, on balance, 40yo and up, went hard Rethug in FL in 2022.

Nationally the spread is not as large as Florida, but it is nowhere near a 1 percent gap either, especially with with Boomers and up (and unfortunally it is looking like even the older half or so pf Gen Xers are moving rightward, as I have posted on in the past).

It is Blue younger voters versus Red older voters, on balance, in terms of age.


Exit Polls: Source: National Election Pool (NEP)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Florida_gubernatorial_election

https://edition.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/florida/governor/0

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-elections/florida-governor-results




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_Senate_election_in_Florida

https://edition.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/florida/senate/0

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-elections/florida-senate-results

[radius777]

101. Florida Latinos seem to love DeSantis

almost as much as Florida whites... also the splits amongst the young aren't that great either, should be more near 70% if Dems are to offset the RW olds.

[paleotn]

69. Source?

Those stats may cover ALL 65 and overs regardless of race but I doubt seriously that holds for WHITE 65s and older. Whites > 65 lean heavily Republican nationwide. If you actually READ my post, you'll see that was kind of the group I was pointing a finger at?

And by the way, how exactly, after 4 years of his thuggery, did DeSantis muster a huge win of nearly 60% of the vote in 2022 against a well known and supposedly well liked former FL governor Charlie Crist? How?

[Mariana]

74. They are different.

Florida is the biggest MAGAt magnet in the country by far. Retired MAGAts have been pouring into Florida for years, and there's no end in sight. They go there because they *love* De Santis and everything he stands for.

[Hortensis]

78. :) Sigh, sigh, and sigh. Celerity, if you applied that

attention to changing your basic premises with other figures, I believe you would succeed. Of course the existence of Florida's Democrats can be confirmed with no difficulty at all.

Paleotn and Marianne, I don't think the few, simple figures I offered on one aspect are too alarming to consider. Shouldn't require discarding a foundational belief, but maybe straighten its tilt a bit?

There really ARE Democrat in Florida, almost as many as there are Republicans. And of course almost half of the older voters have been voting Democratic most of their lives. Older people tend to have their preferences baked in and just aren't that changeable.

[Tickle]

12. Florida people seem very happy to me

I go there a lot, and I have family there. Tampa, like most cities, is very diverse. I went out to gather some statistics.
White: 71.64% Black or African American: 15.94% Two or more races: 6.02% Other race: 3.3%
Latinos are the second-largest racial and ethnic group in Florida, at 26% of the population.

Three of the four most populous states also lead in the number of estimated businesses with a majority Black or African American ownership: Florida had 15,149 such companies in 2020, California had 13,729, and New York had 12,636.

[shrike3]

18. That's my take as well.

They're very happy personally, and they're fine with what DeSantis is doing. So long as it doesn't affect them.

Comparing Fla. to 1930s Germany is a stretch at this point, IMO. But if you look at pictures from the '30s, most Germans looked pretty darn happy. So long as it wasn't them getting rounded up.

[Tickle]

19. Very true on the last part

When I read something about Florida I'll ask my nieces. They are young moms in Florida with kids in school and I would think they stay on top of the issues

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. I have a front row seat.

Being in the midst of it feels very much like what I've read in the history books of 1930s Germany. That doesn't mean the outcome is a foregone conclusion, but the fascists are most certainly priming the pumps. Florida is quickly reaching a tipping point if we aren't there already.

Sadly, the brain, heart, and courage exodus that has begun makes me fear for the future. I know families who were quite active in progressive politics who have already given up and left. The pace seems to be accelerating. One of our loudest voices just confessed to me he's looking at relocating. I'm house hunting in VA come August. Those of us who have been fighting the good fight are utterly exhausted.

It's no stretch to make the comparison and you are absolutely right. Those who are not directly impacted (or more to the point, think they are not) are perfectly happy. They are in the pot and the heat is being turned up. They just can't feel it yet.

[Deuxcents]

30. Went to a birthday party yesterday and a very dear friend and her husband,

Both good democrats, put their house up for sale and two days later, signed on the dotted line to move out of Florida. I’m soo happy for them but sad for those of us who love them. Others said they have been thinking about it..even going out of the country. We’ve all been here for decades and a couple of us were born here but, yeah, it’s not good. If we compare now to the 1930’s, it’s like in the history books that some fled, others who stayed had to escape..very unsettling…

[Hortensis]

28. I see a warning of far-right danger in ALL prone to demonizing

whole peoples, in this case the people of Florida rather than Jews, not just the subgroup who vote Republican.

Weaknesses of all kinds are weakness.

They're not strength. And they're certainly not commitment to democracy.

[SunSeeker]

41. We're not demonizing all of the people of Florida. We're speaking truth to power.

We are not demonizing all of the people of Florida the way the Nazis demonized the Jews. That is a really offensive take.

We're well aware there are Democrats in Florida. That's whose vote DeathSentence has been suppressing and that's who we're fighting for. It's what DeathSentence and his Republican enablers have been doing to Florida Democrats, trans kids and their families, pregnant women, school kids, immigrants and people of color that has caused us to call out what's happening in Florida. It is not a "weakness." Please don't both sides this. Please join us, instead of bashing us as being a "far-right danger."

[shrike3]

44. The people I know are apolitical. And they are pretty darn happy.

I'm not demonizing anyone. One on one, they're good people. And if you mention that a same-sex couple -- I know one -- is moving out because they don't feel safe, the apolitical folks will get serious and say, "oh, that's not good, I have gay friends, etc." But then they go back to their own lives, and their own lives are pretty good.

I don't think it's a Florida thing. It's a human thing.

[SunSeeker]

56. Of course it's a human thing. But it's happening in Florida and we need to call it out.

Apolitical folks are how fascists get into power, good people doing nothing.

[shrike3]

57. You're preaching to the choir. I agree completely.

But getting apolitical people to care is a challenge, and Floridians have my sympathies. Most of my friends and acquaintances are apolitical in this red state, and getting them to pay attention is maddening. If everyone paid attention, IMO, we'd have no apolitical people.

[Hortensis]

72. Sure. When people express various ways of rejecting Florida

as different from the other states, wishing it'd go away, they're not deliberately, with eyes wide open, wishing to deny people in Florida the rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness that are the birthright of ALL citizens of the United States.

Good thing, because that's not exactly the commitment to government of, by and for the people that most who vote Democratic feel, even if unspoken: A belief in and reverence for the rights and equality of ALL people.

It's no "united we stand" (even if only because divided we'll fall) either. The almost half of all FLs who vote Democratic are always discards during this angry little fever, even though they carried FL in 4 of the last 8 elections. Don't ask why, they just are.

So, it's not principle and it's not self interest. How about if someday it became something like "first they came for" the people of Florida...?

Divisions between those who are "us" and deserving and those who aren't (!) are being drawn anywhere groups that call themselves "us -- and not those others!" feel like it. Right through themselves even.

We don't ever want to see the "and then they came for me." But history echoes because PEOPLE repeat themselves.

Say no to bad group behaviors. We are each individually better and need to guard that in ourselves.

[SunSeeker]

82. Beating DUers up for "bad group behaviors" over a satirical political cartoon is OTT.

Especially in this instance, where the bad group behaviors are by Republicans.

Nobody is rejecting all of the people of Florida.

[soldierant]

71. If you had lived through the inflation Germany saw in the twenties

you would be pretty in the thirties too.

Having to take a wheelbrrow full of cash to the market just to buy eggs (which is one of the stories i've heard on pretty good authority) - if you lived through that and then got amore-or-less normal ecoomy back, you could hardly help but be happy. And having someone, not the government, to blame it on didn't hurt.

The only thing that's tough for me to get is that for so many white people, just having a black President made then feel as desperate as that, so that having a white one again made them that happy (especially when he was a worthless POS.)

[shrike3]

73. Certainly the average German had plenty to be happy about.

I was in Europe in the 80s and even then people were telling me about all the good things that Hitler did. For the economy, et. al.

What's jarring, though, is the pictures of all the happy people, knowing what awaited some of their neighbors.

[radius777]

102. Ethnic narcissism,

they were Good Germans and the Jews were an easy scapegoat. Nationalism 101, why Putin still has high support in Russia.

[soldierant]

116. The "Final Solution" did not become doctrine

until after hostilities had started - the early forties.

Ganted it wasn't pretty before that - but people really didn'y know that was coming until it came.

[shrike3]

117. Maybe you're not familiar with that part of history?

Life wasn't exactly fun before "doctrine."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zk94jxs/articles/z6ck8hv

In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws were passed. The aim of these laws was to take away the rights of Jewish people to be citizens of Germany. This did not mean they had to leave the country, but it took away their right to help or support from the government, which led to the withdrawal of state education and healthcare.

It classified people who were Jewish, or of Jewish heritage, into different groups: Jews or ‘mischlinge’ (mixed) heritage. For example, a child with three or four Jewish grandparents was Jewish, whereas someone with one or two Jewish grandparents was classed as a ‘mischling’. Once these laws had been passed, marriage between Jews and non-Jews was forbidden. Those classified as ‘mischlinge’ were also not allowed to marry a non-Jewish person.

1936

October: Jewish teachers are banned from working in state schools.

1938

July: Jewish doctors are banned from treating non-Jewish patients.

August: All Jewish men are forced to change their first name to Israel and all women to Sara.

October: All Jewish owned property must be given away to non-Jews.

October: All Jewish passports must be stamped with the letter ‘J’.

You seem awfully eager to make excuses for Germans of that time.

[soldierant]

119. Of course it wasn't fun.

But they were able to conceal their intentions longer before it became doctrine.

[shrike3]

126. You mean stripping Jews of their rights as Germans was concealing doctrine?

Gosh. Who knew?

[Skittles]

142. that's not much of a ringing endorsement for the people of Florida

pretty sickening

[SunSeeker]

42. Do you know any Florida trans kids and their families? nt

[shrike3]

45. I know a same-sex couple who's leaving ASAP.

A second same-sex couple I know went down to visit recently and came back saying, "how can anybody live here?"

But the apolitical folks I know, the ones with conventional families, they're happy as clams. Some even have gay friends, but they don't correlate their votes to their gay friends being uncomfortable.

[LowerManhattanite]

98. I do. And they are absolutely freaked out.

It’s messing with their lives. The kid is in college down there and they’re seeing access to hormone treatments that maintain and further transition decrease, effectively putting them in stasis or worse, causing them to de-transition back. Their child is not in a position emotionally or any way to switch schools, but the parents want OUT of the state to go somewhere safe. They have an option in Jamestown, NY, but now it’s a matter of finding employment that will match the COL, but then…what about their child— who would be effectively uprooted and lose a support system of friends back home?

This sh*t is affecting people. WHOLE DAMN FAMILIES. But to hear some here tell it, it’s no big deal and is being overblown.

Tell that to my friends, J&M and their son, A.

[Kingofalldems]

47. So DeSantis is okay?

[shrike3]

55. I think a lot of Floridians are fine with DeSantis.

They knew what he was, and they elected him by the largest margin in I believe forty years.

I live in a red state. Very red. I detest a lot of the policies our government puts in. But most of my fellow residents do not. They put these people in. They return them to office. I vote how I vote and I do what I can, but I can only do so much. If the majority of residents approve of government policy, that government policy is going to stay.

[mucifer]

61. Some people only care about paying lower taxes

Yes we pay more taxes in Illinois. But we have more human rights. I know people who leave Illinois because of the taxes. It makes me sick.

[shrike3]

65. I agree, yes.

Taxes, weather. No shoveling snow in the winter. That's all they care about, and I'm not exaggerating much.

[Marius25]

113. Floridians don't actually pay lower taxes in most cases

While they have no income tax, they have other taxes that are high, and it's a regressive tax system that punishes anyone who isn't rich.

They also have the highest home insurance, flood insurance, and car insurance in the country. There are people paying $20,000+ a year just in insurance.

[Mariana]

76. Of course they're happy.

Why wouldn't they be happy? Most of them voted for exactly what's happening now.

[tenderfoot]

80. They sure do!

Link to tweet

[Crowman2009]

13. I was thinking more like 1970's Chile.

Which was quite Nazi-like. Plus I wouldn't be surpised if a bunch of Pinoche acolytes are living in exile in Florida.

[dalton99a]

16. Florida was the No. 1 destination for Chileans according to government statistics

[LudwigPastorius]

95. Uh Oh... Are we looking at a The Boys from Boca Raton scenario?

Then again, there's no need for them to clone fascists. There's plenty right here in the U.S. of A.

[HardPort]

14. Or East Germany circa 1961. I feel like they may start building a wall pretty soon ...

[EX500rider]

40. You mean with the stasi and 1/3 of the population spying on the other I don't think so

In East Germany built a wall to keep people in.
And it wasn't just a wall they had in minefields and guard towers all up and down the border.

[shrike3]

46. Wouldn't put it past some people to spy on others.

Hate to talk like that. Don't want to be alarmist. But I can see some folks doing that. Especially the people who live in gated communities. Lots of those in Florida.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

120. OMFG

You have seen the law in Texas that pays people to rat out women who get an abortion and anyone who helps them get one while providing zero protection to those falsely accused...right?

Do you also realize that the woman-hating scum in that state constitutes at least 1/3 of its population?

Do you think other states aren't about to try the same thing?

How is that not like what the East Germans were up to?

[EX500rider]

133. Thread is about Fla, not Txs

[dalton99a]

15. Freedom State, my ass

[SunSeeker]

38. More like "Freedom Dies Here." nt

[EX500rider]

17. Germany opened it first concentration camp in 1933

Kristallnacht was also in the 1930's

Fla is nowhere near those events.

[Tickle]

20. Thank you NT

[roamer65]

22. I see him more as Benito DeSatan.

[Pacifist Patriot]

25. Florida might not be near those events, but the blatant disregard for civil rights and the...

U.S. Constitution can make it feel like it isn't such a large leap and a reasonable fear.

When you take the recent laws passed in Florida and hold them up with the J6 insurrection, democracy feels really damn fragile in this state right now.

[carpetbagger]

53. But that will make it 1950s Florida, not 1930s Germany.

Desantis is playing the exact playbook that his predecessor Charlie Johns used. There's a PBS documentary about it, I think called "the committee".

[retread]

77. But there is no Leroy Collins!

[BlackSkimmer]

31. Thank you.

There are pride events going on all over Florida throughout this summer, some this week.

Black fraternities will be meeting there in July The chairman of the NAACP lives in Tampa, I haven't heard that he's moving.

I have friends all over the state, gay and black friends. They can't stand DeSantis, but they sure as hell don't think they're living in Nazi Germany.

These ridiculous comparisons that I keep seeing here simply trivialize what happened in Germany.

[Sympthsical]

49. Are the Keys not walled off with barbed wire?

Huh. I feel like I've been misinformed.

I already started having this argument in another thread, and you'll never guess what rapidly started appearing - teleporting goal posts! Weird . . .

Sometimes I get the impression people wish things were much worse than they are, just so they'd have something to talk about on the internet. When there's a shortage of drama, it will be manufactured.

Anyway, I perversely enjoy this stuff. It's never not amusing. "It's such a shame they don't teach history anymore. Now, I'd like to tell everyone why my local school board is just like the French Revolution. You won't believe what we're living under!"

When people think Robespierre is fancy clothing that gets handed out at a spa.

[SunSeeker]

50. One of the lessons from Nazi Germany is to not wait until the frog is boiled.

Of course Florida is not exactly like Nazi Germany. Nobody here said it was. But Florida under De Santis is on the road to fascism. That is a fact. Bashing those who are sounding the alarm is not helping matters.

"At first they came for trans kids, and I did not speak out since I was not trans..."

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

[mucifer]

62. NAACP has a travel warning on Florida

[ancianita]

111. It has not. As with hurricanes, a travel warning is different from a travel advisory.

Don't distort what the NAACP said.

NAACP President Derrick Johnson issued a travel advisory saying, "we are advising African Americans and others that if you travel to Florida, beware that your life is not valued."

[shrike3]

112. Not a warning, but an "advisory."

His "advisory" does not exactly fill one with confidence, if you know what I mean.

[ancianita]

114. I get that.

[misanthrope]

34. Florida must have skipped right past the Weimar phase

With its struggle between communists, anarchists and fascists. Or the dire economic scenario it held.

The comparison is specious.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

121. Nothing says that the road to fascism

Will be paved with the same asphalt.

Only that the end goal is the same.

You do get that, right?

[misanthrope]

130. The OP clearly says Florida feels like 1930s Germany

What I gave were distinct characteristics of 1930s Germany, characteristics that overwhelmed everything in the political and cultural realm.

I think the OP is more clearly hyperbole. A more accurate statement might have been that the poster wonders how closely Florida's current environment hews to the feel of 1930s Germany.

[hadEnuf]

83. Yet.

[FakeNoose]

92. In Florida the enemy isn't Jewish people - it's the POC, illegal immigrants, gays and trans people

... and don't forget the worst enemy of all - LIBTARDS!

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

123. Maybe you need to get out more

Last November a neighbor had spotted the children, barefoot and dirty, chasing a soccer ball during school hours. Her report to a local principal set in motion an unlikely visit from Miami-Dade’s top school administrator. Superintendent Alberto Carvalho was anguished by what he discovered at the secret, squalid migrant camp hidden in plain sight. “I couldn’t believe what I saw,” Carvalho said. “I mean, my eyes just couldn’t believe what was in front of me.”

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article239316068.html#storylink=cpy

You can bet that DeSantis knows about these "secret" camps.

And just because the attacks on the businesses of "undesirables" isn't as concentrated as Kristallnacht doesn't mean that targeted attacks aren't happening to people and businesses that Florida's right wing doesn't like:

Windows shattered at LGBT bars in Orlando:

https://www.wesh.com/article/orlando-lgbtq-bars-vandalized/42560043

Gainesville's LGBTQ Pride center vandalized:

https://www.wuft.org/news/2022/09/25/pride-center-of-north-central-florida-building-vandalized/

Pride flag vandalized at lesbian couple's home:

https://www.wesh.com/article/pride-flag-vandalized-eustis/43522035

Three men invade the home of a Pompano Beah gay man and beat him so badly they blinded him...and have yet to go on trial:

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/florida/2022/04/13/3-face-hate-crimes-charges-in-florida-after-attack-leaves-gay-man-blind-prosecutors-say/

[EX500rider]

131. So a migrant worker camp & a Nazi death camp seem the same to you?

Kristallnacht was a pogrom carried out by the Nazi Party's Sturmabteilung (SA) paramilitary and Schutzstaffel (SS) paramilitary forces along with some participation from the Hitler Youth.
Jewish homes, hospitals and schools were ransacked as attackers demolished buildings with sledgehammers. Rioters destroyed 267 synagogues throughout Germany, Austria and the Sudetenland. Over 7,000 Jewish businesses were damaged or destroyed, and 30,000 Jewish men were arrested and incarcerated in concentration camps and over 90+ people killed.

Fla does not have a government sponsored pogrom going on.

[EX500rider]

26. I think many on Du confuse Fascism with conservative religious beliefs/extreme orthodoxy

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy
Fla checks very few of those boxes.

[SunSeeker]

54. So you want us to wait until "all the boxes are checked" before sounding the alarm?

Enough of the boxes are checked right now to say, without any "confusion," that Florida under De Santis is on the road to facism.

[EX500rider]

63. You mean except when he loses his next election and is out of power

Doesn't check the biggest box dictatorship

[SunSeeker]

86. No, I mean Florida is on the road to fascism.

There are plenty of wannabe dictators waiting in the Republican wings when DeSantis loses.

We can't pretend what's happening in FL is fine, not if we care about democracy.

[EX500rider]

90. If we keep getting people that are elected that is the definition of democracy

[SunSeeker]

97. If the politicians get to pick who can vote for them, that's the definition of fascism.

De Santis squeaked into office, then went on a voter purge spree. Florida Republicans continue to make it hard for ex-felons to vote, even though Florida voters overwhelming voted that ex-felons should get their right to vote back. Mass incarceration is the new Jim Crow.

And De Santis is taking full advantage of it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/in-florida-the-gutting-of-a-landmark-law-leaves-few-felons-likely-to-vote

[EX500rider]

104. Not really Fla specific though is it

Two states, Maine and Vermont, as well as the District of Columbia, have unrestricted voting rights for people who are felons.

While some states automatically restore voting rights after incarceration, about thirty states condition the restoration of voting rights to the individual's ability to pay legal debts. Those who are unable to pay these debts are automatically disenfranchised.

[SunSeeker]

108. DeSantis went against the will of the FL voters to disenfranchise 800k felons.

DeSantis pushed state lawmakers to impose the fees and fines restriction, which disqualified nearly 800,000 felons from voting, thus subverting Florida’s Amendment 4, and may constitute the biggest single instance of voter disenfranchisement. https://www.propublica.org/article/in-florida-the-gutting-of-a-landmark-law-leaves-few-felons-likely-to-vote

That's pretty Florida specific. I can't think of any other state where its current governor has disenfranchised 800,000 people, can you?

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

122. It checks all of them

Only the blind can't see it.

far-right - DeSatan and the other traitor thugs are in no way moderate. CHECK.

authoritarian - DeSatan has pushed through laws that extend and consolidate his power. CHECK.

ultranationalist political ideology and movement - Hatred of "illegals", shipping them to other states for the sick joy of it. CHECK.

characterized by a dictatorial leader - DeSatan. CHECK.

centralized autocracy - DeSatan and the total control of the state that the FL traitor party has, and going so far as to remove local authority, like removing that district attorney for a stupid reason. CHECK.

militarism - creating your own "election" police force. CHECK.

forcible suppression of opposition - "I will drive out all wokeism and the left." And he's going after trans people, unimpeded. He's removed people from government positions because they didn't march lock step with him. CHECK.

belief in a natural social hierarchy - Impunity for white straight christian conservative males. Everyone else, bend the knee. CHECK.

subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race - not allowing parents to decide that they don't want their children to learn sanitized history or "protect" them from knowledge that goes against right-wing delusions. Laws to harm trans people. CHECK.

Strong regimentation of society and the economy. He's going after Disney, for disagreeing with him about bashing gays, FFS. He took away a component of their business model regarding that, to control them--he even thinks he can use that control to force them to produce the content he wants from them. CHECK.

What more do you need, to grasp that Florida is well on its way down the road of fascism?

[EX500rider]

132. Still a democracy, not a dictatorship & DeSantis can be voted out.

Actual fascists leaders not so much.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

27. The only place in Florida that it is safe to visit is Walt Disney World

[BlackSkimmer]

32. How is it not safe?

You do realize there are people attending Pride events this week there?

Personally, I'd feel safer anywhere in Florida than some of the NE cities that seemed to be plagued with daily shootings. Even in my home state of NC, there are cities that have shootings everyday.

Mostly gang and youth violence, so I'm assuming they're not MAGAs.

When is the last time you visited?

[ancianita]

36. Agree. Know why people generalize about Florida? Because they want to.

There's too much baseless fantasy going on around here about Florida. It's not helpful for Florida Democrats here, nor is it a generally productive way to help Florida. The better idea is to work to turn red states blue, not indulge judgy mcjudge imaginings.

Diss and dismiss is not a political strategy to save the soul of America.

Democrats are down in red states. They're not out.

Hi, BlackSkimmer!

[shrike3]

48. Well, I do know at least one same-sex couple who is leaving.

Another who recoiled in horror after spending a week down there.

I think people are generally happy so long as troubles don't affect them personally.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

39. My family has been to Walt Disney World numerous times

My oldest child took his siblings and brother in law to WDW two weeks ago. The whole family is headed there in December. My sisten and brother are going to meet us at WDW.

I have been at WDW during the old official gay days and it was no big deal.

[shrike3]

51. Florida just passed a law which would remove trans children from their families.

Same with Texas. Most decent people recoil from that idea. But it hasn't sparked a revolt in either state.

Now, I know plenty of people who love living in Texas and in Florida. But none of those people have trans children. Would they feel differently if they did? I don't know, frankly. Maybe if the laws didn't directly impact them, they'd shake their heads and then go on.

Most people are pretty happy so long as other people's troubles don't affect them. And I'm not talking about Floridians, I mean people in general.

[radius777]

103. It's no surprise that slavery went on for so long.

When people are not directly affected by something they don't really care, and on some level feel special/above those who are targeted.

[EX500rider]

66. St Pete has and will have one of the biggest gay pride parades in the southeast

[Tommy Carcetti]

135. Okay, no. nt

[WarGamer]

33. I'll disagree.

Have you ever read about the origins of the NAZI Party?

[SunSeeker]

60. It's a political cartoon. You understand how satire works, right?

[ancianita]

35. Cute cartoon. But that's not Florida. I live in Florida. I know.

[CaptainTruth]

43. Me too. I agree.

It seems like we all get lumped in with the worst nutjobs in the state.

[Mr. Sparkle]

52. At one stage DeSantis wanted his own private army

I wonder what happened to that, I hope their state legislators saw sense

[SunSeeker]

58. It's happening. De Santis got his army.

De Santis revived a state military force in Florida under his control. https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/verify/desantis-state-military-force-florida/67-6767aa72-b44c-42e5-b5bb-a6a3f4dc2272

He just signed that bill on Friday. The bill expands the maximum size of the Florida State Guard from 400 to 1,500 members. Lawmakers separately included $107.6 million in the new state budget for the Florida State Guard, up from $10 million in the current fiscal year. https://www.wftv.com/news/local/desantis-signs-bill-expanding-florida-state-guard/MGLVYMKHANEDNLDEX65AMJNCCI/

[EX500rider]

67. Like the many other states that also have a State guard?

[SunSeeker]

84. FL already has 12k FL National Guard troops. The new force will be controlled only by DeSantis.

That was DeSantis' beef with the Florida National Guard. DeSantis claimed the Florida National Guard, which is governed by the federal government and was credited for helping rescue people after hurricanes Ian and Nicole last year, was not providing "enough resources to the state." “Having this additional resource -- that’s under our control rather than waiting for additional allocations from the federal government -- we feel is very important to increase our readiness for emergencies,” he said. https://www.clickorlando.com/news/investigators/2023/03/09/desantis-seeks-98-million-to-fund-floridas-own-military/

[hadEnuf]

87. So Floridia had no National Guard?

World War II is long over but Florida reactivated the state guard a few years ago? Why? Why is DeSantis increasing it from 400 to 1500 and giving it 100 million dollars? Why can they be armed? Why can they monitor ballot boxes?

This is DeSantis' private militia. And some other states do have it as well. Mostly red states.

[EX500rider]

89. State guard & national guard are separate

Nearly every state has laws authorizing state defense forces, and twenty-two states, plus the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, have active forces with different levels of activity, support, and strength. State defense forces generally operate with emergency management and homeland security missions.

What states have the state Guard?
These are the Alaska State Defense Force, Alabama State Defense Force, California State Military Reserve, Colorado State Defense Force, Florida Guard, Georgia State Defense Force, Indiana Guard Reserve, Maryland Defense Force, Mississippi State Guard, New York State Guard, Ohio Military Reserve, Oklahoma Reserve Force, ...

[hadEnuf]

91. It sounds like a WW2 relic that's still on the books.

It's curious why DeSantis is so intent on increasing this armed force that reports only to him.

[SunSeeker]

100. You know he's going to use it to pull political stunts, like sending them to the Texas border.

Or using them to arrest black people who vote in violation of some paperwork rule.

DeSantis gets to decide what constitutes the "emergency" warranting their deployment, something he couldn't do with the existing Florida National Guard.

[EX500rider]

105. I don't know, why does Calif have a armed force under the control of the governor?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Guard

[SunSeeker]

109. CA State Guard is a component of and supports the CA National Guard.

As your Wikipedia link states, "The California State Guard (CSG) (formerly the California State Military Reserve) is a component of the California National Guard (CNG). The CSG is a volunteer force that supports the state missions and federal readiness of the Army and Air National Guard. CSG service members come from all branches of the military and are citizens with essential skills. Many CSG service members are fully integrated with Army National Guard and Air National Guard units, and are full-time state active duty."

That is a very different mission from what DiSantis created his force for, which he explicitly sought to be separate from and in no way integrated with the Florida National Guard.

[tenderfoot]

59. Here for the "quit over reacting!" comments

[Behind the Aegis]

64. Seems many ostriches are on the loose.

Drawing parallels to past events doesn't mean or even imply the EXACT thing is happening. I am constantly surprised (rare these days) how many on the left just reply with bemusement or worse, with a "meh". Bigots love their bigotry, it's like Pringles, they can't have just one!

ETA: I added this video, quite on topic: The Str8 to Fascist Pipeline James Somerton

[Sympthsical]

79. Come on, man

"Drawing parallels to past events doesn't mean or even imply the EXACT thing is happening"

*points at comic*

That is exactly what people are doing, and that is why I object so vigorously to it. It feels like gaslighting to tell me I haven't seen what I've spent twenty years watching. "Why everything I don't like is just like Hitler." And it's only grown exponentially worse over time.

There is a Crying Wolf element to all this. The problem is, people have been yelling Nazi so often for so long, it just doesn't mean anything anymore.

The real mess is going to be if we ever do get to that point and no one believes it because they've been so desensitized by the most dramatic, ubiquitous, and easily disprovable claims. Speaking only for myself, but if I see the word "fascist" in a post or article, there is a 50/50 chance I tap out then and there because I doubt the person's knowledge or judgement.

Frankly, I'd be bothered if every minor political disagreement turned into "It's just like before the Holocaust!" I mean, that's offensive as hell and historically ignorant.

So embracing, defending, or pretending that hasn't been a long-term behavior is kind of a choice I don't understand at all.

And I reject the idea that our choices here are either ostriching or gaslighting. There is still a place for objectivity and realism, much as social media work mightily against it.

[Behind the Aegis]

81. No, YOU c'mon, bro.

"Drawing parallels to past events doesn't mean or even imply the EXACT thing is happening"

*points at comic*

Yes, it points out SIMILARITIES, are you familiar with the book burnings in Nazi Germany? Should I send you some links to educate yourself, or is it, as I suspect, something YOU are already familiar with?

"It feels like gaslighting to tell me I haven't seen what I've spent twenty years watching." Frankly, that is how I feel with your comments in various threads on this topic. Are there people running about with their hair on fire? Yes. But, the past few threads weren't like that nor are the multitudes of articles and opinion pieces from Holocaust SURVIVORS, who won't be gaslit again.

There is a Crying Wolf element to all this. The problem is, people have been yelling Nazi so often for so long, it just doesn't mean anything anymore.

Perhaps in some cases, yes, there is a "WOLF!" attitude, but there are any number of scholars who are increasingly alarmed, especially after January 6th and all the information that keeps spilling out since then. I get exhausted by the false Nazi/Holocaust/WW II references too, but there are times when they are absolutely correct and even necessary.

Unlike the VAST majority of users here, I have studied the Holocaust and continue to do so. (For those who aren't reading carefully, I am not saying people aren't familiar with the Holocaust, but they aren't educated about its complexity and history. ) The comments I am seeing from you and some others could be RIPPED out of various German Jewish newspapers in 1932, 1933, 1934, even up to 1939! "Everyone calm down, nothing to see here!" Keep thinking that...see how it works out.

There is a difference between being paranoid and aware, and you and I seem to have very different standards. But, if you want your experiences acknowledged, recognize the experiences of others are not the same and therefore the views are going to manifest differently.

"There is still a place for objectivity and realism, much as social media work mightily against it."

Finally, we agree on something. Where we don't agree is what is objective and real. It is long, but I suggest you watch the video I posted in Videos here at DU.

As I said before, things don't have to be identical, but when certain things start to line up. mimic the past, or create parallels, then it must be noticed and addressed. Perhaps, that is another area where you and I disagree, in how it's being addressed. You see simplistic OPs like this and the other one as "hair-on-fire" and I do not, but I see them as reasonable concerns and expression of real fear. That shouldn't be ignored or so easily dismissed.

[hadEnuf]

93. Thinking that comparing obvious parallels to the rise of Nazism in the 1930's

means that someone is actually saying it's going to happen exactly the same way is really kind of silly in itself.

[radius777]

106. Agree - the whole Godwin's law meme is on some level what

got us Trump IMO as society was not able to call a Nazi what it was for fear of being called hyperbolic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

When a politician in what is supposed to be a democracy starts banning books and targeting vulnerable classes - that is certainly fascist behavior that is dangerous for those who are targeted (and who may eventually be targeted). Just because 'most people are happy' doesn't mean shit. Most white people were happy under slavery just as most Germans were happy under Hitler. The class that is not targeted usually feels special and elevated in some way, and often content with the arrangement.

[Zeitghost]

134. I'd argue

That the hyperbolic labeling of everything bad in society as a genocide, holocaust, communists, fascists, NAZI's etc. has watered the terms down so much that they can no longer be accurately used.

[LowerManhattanite]

99. I was watching a nature show a week or so back...

…and discovered to my surprise that ostriches seem to have a love (going back to when the large birds diverged from their dinosaur forebear antecedents) a particular affinity for burning sunshine, abnormally low taxes and year-round beachwear.

[paleotn]

70. Never gets old.

Bugs does the country a solid.

&ab_channel=fukTroll

[calimary]

107. Love this!

Hey, DeSantis, you just got owned by a cartoon rabbit.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

85. excellent toon

[flamingdem]

94. Many of the people in Florida are terrible

But the nature here - birds and critters and beautiful springs and the ocean - are worth fighting for.

I hope most of us who love it will stay.

Some places are more tolerable than others.

[flvegan]

96. No it doesn't. n/t

[SunSeeker]

110. I take it you're not trans, black or a pregnant woman. nt

[LetMyPeopleVote]

115. For this thread

Link to tweet

[Kaleva]

118. And yet we don't see people abandoning everything and fleeing the state

If Florida was truly like 1930's Nazi Germany, history will tell you to do whatever it takes to get the hell out of there. Even if you have to walk out like the hundreds of thousands who fled ISIS.

Or maybe people think that a reduction in standard of living is too much of a price to pay and it's better to stay in the New Nazi Wonderland and keep all of their material possessions.

I guess a few more years of tv and air conditioning is worth the price of a one way ticket to a gas chamber.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

124. Because not everyone is directly affected.

Just like how most of the white christian Germans weren't affected by Hitler's policies.

That doesn't mean that the policies weren't dangerous or bad. They most certainly were both for the people who were affected.

Do keep up.

[Kaleva]

125. What does that have to do with people who say they are threatened?

A basic knowledge of history should tell people who are at risk to flee the state by whatever means possible. Even if they have to walk hundreds of miles like the hundreds of thousands who fled ISIS .

I'm not going to feel sorry for those who place a greater value on material things then on life itself .

One can't do much for people who choose to ignore history

[Bonx]

127. This thread has the feel of routine predictable hyperbole

Step away from the keyboard, go out in public and enjoy celebrating with others: https://authenticflorida.com/a-guide-to-florida-pride-2023/

[RAB910]

128. Are you aware of the NAACP travel advisory?

https://naacp.org/articles/naacp-issues-travel-advisory-florida

[Bonx]

129. Yes. I don't agree with it. Also, the NAACP chairman lives in Tampa.

[BlackSkimmer]

139. Are you aware the chairman of the NAACP lives in Florida?

[RAB910]

140. and????

[BlackSkimmer]

141. And??

Backatcha...

[RAB910]

143. Only, I was curious if you had to point to make

I guess you don't

[Tommy Carcetti]

136. Okay, the political situation sucks to high heavens. But this is silly. nt

[RAB910]

138. I have a friend who moved to Florida, unprompted he told me Florida reminds him of Nazi Germany

Circa the 1930s. It's dangerous to call open and blatant fascism and bigotry/hatred "silly"

[LetMyPeopleVote]

137. For this thread

Link to tweet

[Montauk6]

144. Just 90 short years from the Enabling Act