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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Extremist Wings Of Both Parties
I usually do not watch any cable news except for Nicolle Wallace, but I watched cable news last night because of the debt ceiling agreement.
I listened to the narrative, the "extremist wings of both parties."
What is the extremist wing of the Democratic party, I would like to know?
Is it people like Joe Lieberman who cost our party getting the public option included with Obamacare?
Is it people like Manchin and Sinema who cost us doing a clean debt ceiling bill in 2022?
I do not believe that the Democratic party has an extremist wing but I realize how ignorant I am, someone set me straight.
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Coventina
(28,342 posts)There is no extreme wing of the Democratic party.
There are extreme lefties, but they are tiny in number in comparison to the numbers and clout of the extreme righties.
NotVeryImportant
(578 posts)Is not a legitimate media outlet.
That should tell you the state we're in here in America.
mucifer
(25,155 posts)does not want to give any money to Ukraine and is anti vaccine. But, most dems aren't that extreme. They do believe in human rights.
It seems most republicans are in. the extremes. Most dems are not.
gab13by13
(27,973 posts)doesn't want to give money to Ukraine? Who is anti-vax? I am not aware of these members of Congress and I would like to know their names.
mucifer
(25,155 posts)
Autumn
(47,774 posts)funding for defense and federal agencies that oversee immigration.
gab13by13
(27,973 posts)I view it as a right wing extremist rag that employed John Solomon who was executive VP of digital video while he was there.
Emile
(34,391 posts)
Initech
(104,709 posts)The right wing on the other hand seems hell bent on making this entire country a giant war zone. 
eShirl
(19,274 posts)probably on Youtube
bottomofthehill
(9,142 posts)Extremists, not to me, pain in the ass to Speaker Pelosi when she led the party, Clearly. The non adult clown caucus of the Democratic Party. Complaining you are not getting what you want is easy, getting the votes is hard. Speaker Pelosi got the votes while others talked of perfection.
gab13by13
(27,973 posts)those are your words. Speaker Pelosi got those votes because the progressive caucus voted with Pelosi.
I do not want this thread to start another progressive v Moderate fight. There are progressive members and moderate members of the Democratic party who I have differences with but I do not see any member of our party as being extreme, and I certainly don't see any member as being a non adult clown.
ismnotwasm
(42,641 posts)The right wants there to be, because they have chided to be terrible people. There is nothing extremist about the Democratic Party
gab13by13
(27,973 posts)that is my simple point I was trying to make. The Democratic party is a great party because of our diversity, because we represent all of America.
617Blue
(1,915 posts)Their entire party is an extremists wing.
GreenWave
(11,110 posts)So as many predicted: You create a legion of Frankensteins, good luck getting them back in the box.
Srkdqltr
(8,333 posts)
JHB
(37,662 posts)...because it lets them play at being "the reasonable people". To acknowledge that only one side has rampant extremism means that they'd have to speak against it, and that would mean they have "liberal bias."
"The usual suspects" for the fictional Democratic "extremists" are Bernie, AOC, and "The Squad," who, even if they went hog-wild (which they can't), would still have us looking more like the Eisenhower administration than like Venezuela or Cuba.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and how it enables the right wing.
taxi
(2,198 posts)those whose names are not on Wednesday's discharge petition. Here's the list:
Autumn
(47,774 posts)The Republican party has an extremist wing, they have assholes and fucking crazies.
calguy
(5,903 posts)The difference is the republican extremists have taken control of the party, whereas with the Democrats, cooler heads prevail.
gab13by13
(27,973 posts)who is an extremist and why he/she is extremist. A Democrat.
calguy
(5,903 posts)But I consider voices like, AOC to be extremist. While I agree with many of her positions, the way she goes about it offends the very people whose minds she needs to change.
This is understandable because she's still relatively new in Congress and learning the game. When she learns to tone down her rhetoric, she'll accomplish great things. Until she does, she'll continue to voice her extremist position, but she won't have the political leverage to get anything done.
gab13by13
(27,973 posts)seeing how she is attacked by the Magats. What position of hers are you opposed to?
Ted Kennedy was a loud voice also.
calguy
(5,903 posts)And I'm cool with it.
Politics is a craft that must be honed. Once she learns to get her points across without pissing off half the people she needs to accomplish her goal, she'll be much more effective.
NotVeryImportant
(578 posts)I haven't seen an answer from you on that.
Do you have one, or two, or three?
calguy
(5,903 posts)My comment was made in general terms, and I'm not about to get into a 'tit-for-tat' kind of argument. Read the civil discussion between walkingman and myself if you're really all that interested in what I meant by that statement.
NotVeryImportant
(578 posts)Just you unable to state one, simple, position that you disagree w/Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on.
That speaks for itself.
calguy
(5,903 posts)If you want to make a big deal out of it, you'll have to do it with yourself.
Good day.
walkingman
(9,190 posts)I have been this way since I was able to vote and most of the people I know from the 60's were also. I'm 72.
calguy
(5,903 posts)Remember back in the sixties when the extreme voices in our party (which I agreed with) took center stage and got all the headlines?
Remember how it all came to a head at the 1968 convention in Chicago?
Remember how it weakened our party and Nixon won that election?
Remember how the extreme elements of our party, (which I was one of) took control and nominated George McGovern?
Remember how badly we got our asses kicked?
This is the trajectory the GOP is on right now with trump.
Those who fail to learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat them.
walkingman
(9,190 posts)we were right about politics and war, right about the environment, right about society. Yes, Nixon beat McGovern but times have changed. The majority voting blocks are becoming the millennials and Gen-Z as we Boomers fade into the sunset. The Democrats are the true "big tent" party.
Progressives are much closer to the vast majority of ordinary Americans these days. When you advocate for economic policies that benefit the majority of citizens, that’s a centrist. Wanting the wealthy to pay their "fair share" is not extreme. Healthcare for all, debt-free and tuition-free college, higher minimum wage, gun control, abortion, legalizing weed, immigration reform, are not extreme positions.
The GOP brought in religion and bigotry into our political discourse in the 80's and now it is their "base". To cover the nastiness they now use cultural issues as their bread and butter. They basically have no policies except for reduce taxes, and deregulation. They can't win without gerrymandering, voter suppression, electoral college - they simply do not have the numbers.
So it is easy to describe the Democrats such as AOC as extreme - she's really not. ☮
calguy
(5,903 posts)We were indeed right fifty years ago. My point is if we had been a little more experienced and presented our case a little better, we would have accomplished much more than we did.
Of course, like-minded people can disagree with me. Sometimes we get so gun-ho with our ideas that we forget that not everyone agrees with us. It's better, in my opinion, to ease off the gas to make it more palatable for those who oppose us to consider our positions and come over to our side.
Peace be with you.
betsuni
(27,854 posts)Before 1973 there were lots of good paying manufacturing jobs, increased wages, low economic inequality, union membership, LBJ had improved the social safety net.
"So what caused Trump's White working-class base to leave the Democrats? The short answer is the culture war. Not economic insecurity. And that war was started by the radical left. I was part of that, and everybody saw it happening. The counterculture made the news for years. ... Political radicalism was even more culturally upsetting to the White working class. Often this is excused by citing the radicalism of the civil rights movement, but this is wrong for two reasons -- that movement was not radical in the usual sense, and it did not upset and polarize the country. ... it rejected the dark side of radicalism that separates radicalism from liberalism, and it appealed to traditional American values. Then came the true radicalism of the '60s, beginning with Stokely Carmichael, who attacked MLK Jr. for being moderate or worse ... . ... After 1968 the anti-war movement went radical... .
"Sanders' economic theory says that between '64 and '72, the White working class, which was doing great economically, should have been swinging left, toward McGovern. But 20 million headed the other way. ... His theory predicts that restoring good jobs, rising wages and increased taxes on the rich, like we had before '73 would bring back the white working class. Yet, when we had all that, that was when the largest slice of the working class left the Democratic Party.
"Culture-war theory says that between '64 and '72, the White working class, which was then deeply offended by left radicalism, should have been swinging right, away from McGovern. And it was. ... McGovern was ridiculed as the candidate of 'Acid, Amnesty and Abortion.' This was an attack on the counterculture, the draft dodgers in Canada and the women's movement. Nixon implicitly blamed the largely-Black urban riots on the Black Power movement. ... They knew that culture-war issues were more powerful than a booming, low-inequality economy. Radicals don't get it."
Steven Stoft
calguy
(5,903 posts)Looking back on all that, I think we were on such a roll as a generation, we forgot that there were just as many of 'them' as there were of us. When Nixon made it look like the Viet Nam war was coming to a end, (remember Kissinger's 'peace is at hand' proclamation just after McGovern was nominated?) we lost a good number of anti-war voters, along with those fed up with the entire hippie movement, we lost the majority we took for granted. Remember that Jimmy Carter won by a slim margin set up by Watergate, and when things went sour during his term, the dam busted wide open for a conservative take over, which we are still in the midst of today.
Funny how much perspective we gain with fifty years experience under our belts. This is why I think our bright young politicians like AOC, even though they mean well, do us more harm than good when they open their mouths without thinking how they'll be perceived by people whose minds need to be changed to our way of thinking.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)
AZSkiffyGeek
(12,743 posts)Last I checked she isn’t a Congresswoman from Denmark.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)This country has gotten pushed so far right that some people, even Democrats, perceive the most sensible, practical, humane policies as "far left." It's ridiculous.
betsuni
(27,854 posts)Republicans have become a post-policy extremist far-right party. See post #23.
calguy
(5,903 posts)but she's viewed by many people who AREN'T democrats to be as extreme in her views as we view the most extreme Republicans. She's viewed that way because of the way she presents herself. Nancy Pelosi is in many ways as extreme as AOC, but she chooses her words carefully and more professionally, which is why she's in my opinion the greatest Speaker of the House in our history.
JohnSJ
(98,518 posts)or not voting
Nina Turner, Briahna Joy Gray, David Sirota, Cornell West, etc. Not only did they not vote for Hillary in the General Election over trump, but they encouraged others to do likewise, andc some of those people were part of the rules committee
In 2016, Hillary lost by less than 1% in those critical swing states, while Jill Stein received 1% of the vote.
and the arguments I heard here and other places at the time was that “the Supreme Court didn’t matter, there was no difference between the two parties, they were tired of voting for the lessor of two evils, even the argument that supposedly Hillary was worse than trump” etc.
As for those who argue there are no “extreme positions” among the left, Defund the Police is one example. AOC as and others were proponents of the call to defund the police is one example
The Democratic Socialist of America not only were against our involvement in helping Ukraine, but also blamed the US and NATO for the reason Russia invaded Ukraine.
That being said, there is no comparison between the two, and those that try to portray both siderisms ignore the fact that the extreme right positions motives are authoritarian
The extremist of the Republican Party are racist, sexist, and bigoted, something that can not be equated to left
Polybius
(19,866 posts)Here's just one example:
Rep. Cori Bush Pushes For $14 Trillion In Reparations
She also continues to say "Defund the police."
betsuni
(27,854 posts)
MadameButterfly
(2,923 posts)They want to stop taking moderate steps to solve an extreme problem like a fascist Republican Party. Some will entertain packing the Supreme Court and then reforming it, adding DC and Puerto Rico as states. Dramatic movement on climate change, sustainable agriculture, ending the electoral college, restoring voting rights, a living wage...Yes, left and right extremes have defectors on Ukraine. More on the right.
What seems like reasonable policies to many of us are hard for us to label extreme, but that is what they mean when the talk about the extreme on the left. Extreme Republicans want fascsim. It's about money and power. Extreme Democrats want democracy, economic freedom/equality, and a livable planet.
Extreme isn't always bad. It's which extreme you choose. They aren't equal.
gab13by13
(27,973 posts)and the so called extremists in the Democratic party espouse policies that the majority of Americans are in favor of, they are popular extremists I guess.
MadameButterfly
(2,923 posts)but that's the truth
roamer65
(37,584 posts)
CousinIT
(11,324 posts)Of course the corprat-owned media does their "both sides" bullshit. The corprat bosses evidently require it - because they're certainly not allowed to tell the truth.
The debt ceiling debacle is NOT a “partisan standoff”
It was completely manufactured by Kevin McCarthy and his House Republicans
https://robertreich.substack.com/p/the-debt-ceiling-debacle-is-not-a
Let's Be Clear: Only the Right Has Become More Extreme Over the Last 50 Years
Like in the early 1970s, the left is still against the war machine, still pushing for civil and voting rights, and still fighting the power of big corporations. But the right has moved far, far rightward.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/02/16/lets-be-clear-only-right-has-become-more-extreme-over-last-50-years
NowISeetheLight
(3,996 posts)When I think of "Democrat progressives" I think of people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren who want universal healthcare and lower tuition costs and an end to tax loopholes that benefit only the rich. I don't see that as "radical" or "extreme" at all. Rather I see that as caring for your fellow citizens.
I compare that to "Republican extremists" I see MTG, Gatez, Hawley, Boebert and the rest of the kooks. Kind of a "Lord of the Flies" mentality where what's mine is mine and screw everyone else. If you don't have money and can't eat it's your own fault. If you get sick and don't have healthcare it's your fault. The "fend for yourself" crowd where everyone is on their own.
I view that as "extreme". Wanting everyone to have access to healthcare isn't extreme... it's human decency.
Doc Sportello
(7,964 posts)So far I've not seen any response that proves there is an extremist "wing" in the Democratic Party. The positions taken by AOC, etc., are favored by a majority of Democrats while the Progressive Caucus has supported Biden.
Martin Eden
(14,258 posts)In the big tent of the Democratic Party, some elected to Congress are of course more to the left than others.
But applying the term "extremist" to them and to the certifiably dangerous MAGA extremists is a blatantly false equivalency.
Beastly Boy
(12,145 posts)But it doesn't compare to the extremism in the Republican Party, and I get just as pissed as you are when I see attempts to compare the two.
What we call left wing extremism exists mostly outside of the Democratic Party, and is represented in the Democratic Party by a small number of influential political figures. I would define extremism within the party as attempts to undermine reasonable mainstream policies and positions on ideological grounds that end up harming the goals and interests of not just the Party as a whole but the Left itself.
This doesn't begin to compare to the right wing extremism in the Republican Party, which manifests itself in the views and policies of the Party's majority, and has recently become harmful to society as a whole, if not pathological in its nature.
The two extremes are not comparable on any level, and the "both sides" comparison is ridiculous on its face, and should be rightfully rejected at every opportunity.
A word on left wing extremism: I, like many DUers, still resent the role that the left wing played in Hillary's defeat in 2016, and the dire consequences to the country this defeat brought. But I must acknowledge: this kind of extremism is no longer in place, or at least it no longer has the political capital to inflict great harm. The iconic political figures like AOC and Sanders, who were the most prominent leaders of the 2016 extreme left, are now far more mainstream than they used to be back then. So while I am not about to forget 2016, it is clear to me that the so-called extreme of the Democratic Party is not about to inflict harm, deliberately or inadvertently, on the country as a whole. This cannot be said about the Republican Party, and this is the essence of why attempts to compare two extremes are completely out of place.
bottomofthehill
(9,142 posts)H2O Man
(76,721 posts)I do think there is an extremist wing in the Democratic Party. I say this, trying to remember what exactly Malcolm X said when called an extremist. But this isn't an exact quote. He said that Jesus was an extremist for love, and Gandhi an extremist for truth. So I think that a rather large "wing" of our party tries to follow these men's extreme example. On the other hand, the republican "wing" is extremist for hate and lies. This is, of course, merely my opinion.
reymega life
(675 posts)towards gays, jews and misogynistic views.
Mister Ed
(6,586 posts)The important point that comes through for me is this: the Democratic party, and Democratic voters, do not place left-wing extremists in office. In contrast, the modern Republican party and Republican voters reward right-wing extremists by giving them the largest megaphone and placing them in office to wield real power.
In this current political reality, any notion of "both sides" is absolute garbage.
roamer65
(37,584 posts)I believe in equal rights for ALL, completely unrestricted rights to an abortion and the basic human rights to not be hungry, have a good place to live and quality universal healthcare.
I think that is called “good trouble”, per John Lewis.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)in that there is zero evidence to support the existence of either.
Our "leftist extremists" hold positions that are norms in most high-functioning countries.
CTyankee
(66,108 posts)"both sides does it" argument. No more. I think Joe and Mika got wise to the con but late in the game. We on the left and here at DU had been disparaging it for a LONG time.
Well, well, at long last...
treestar
(82,383 posts)who like the power they get due to the existence of the filibuster.
There are no left extremists in the Senate.
UCmeNdc
(9,652 posts)Lunabell
(7,309 posts)They are anarchists. I am the leftist progressive wing, but understand the need to compromise, because not everyone thinks the same as me. Also, that this country has a two party system that I can't change in my lifetime.
I'm the "extreme left", I suppose, but violence is not a part of my belief system.
Axelrods_Typewriter
(298 posts)You can't get anything you want from a democratic system by looking at said system, eschewing the system of voting that has been the hallmark of democracy for thousands of years, and deciding violence will be your main way of engaging with that system.
Once upon a time, I got involved with the anarchistic and communistic side of the political world thinking they were peaceful, but they weren't. Oh how naive I was. I thought "well, maybe I can direct some of this into interfacing with local politiics and helping local liberal or generally left causes" - I thought wrong. They were quite violent people, committed to violence by any means, and as somebody who has worked very hard to temper and calm the angrier parts of themselves, I could not agree with violence. Violence is not a part of my toolbox for change. Violence destroys, and besides, it's terrible for PR.
Unsurprisingly, my desires for peace and hard work towards good weren't taken very well. I was forced out, but that was a blessing in disguise. It led me to becoming just a regular Democrat, a place where I could actually make a real difference, and not just a difference in the mind of a small amount of violent people. Fate laughed as I became part of the party of my forefathers.
Lunabell
(7,309 posts)"Meet the new boss, he's the same as the old boss."
You can't be a worker for social justice and be a perpetrator of violence. I don't believe in changing the world through violent means. Even violence against neighborhoods, like smashing windows, or starting fires either. Peaceful protests, marching and getting arrested for non-violent demonstrations are fine.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a pacifist. If you hit me, I'll come back at you with even more force if I can. I WILL protect myself and others from violence. Just don't make me.
Polybius
(19,866 posts)Blaming Israel and not condemning Hamas is happening right now by a few in Congress.