What happens when Trump is charged with espionage?

[kentuck]

What will be the reaction in the MAGA movement?

Will they be in a minority in the country?

Most Americans might be shocked to learn about the degree of betrayal? That, not only did he steal the documents and desperately attempted to keep them from the FBI and the government, but he also, gave them to our adversaries, even though they were marked Top Secret.

Most Americans will be very surprised if Trump is charged with espionage. But the DOJ is required to follow the law. It will be up to a jury to decide guilt or innocence.

This is the most grave decision anyone in our Justice Department has ever had to make.

But, our Constitution must be defended and preserved.

[mucifer]

1. you need to change the word when to if.

[kentuck]

2. Why?

You don't think it is going to happen?

[mucifer]

3. I hope it happens. I don't think it will. Fingers crossed you are right

[LiberalFighter]

62. Absolutely not!

[Funtatlaguy]

4. Do you REALLY think he will be charged with espionage or

are you just hoping so?
That has been my hope ever since Paul Manafort came in and canceled the GOP platform at the 2016 convention.
I DO believe Trump is a Russian asset. I just hope Smith has the proof.

[kentuck]

6. A lot of folks feel that he has connections to Putin and Russia.

The decision will be whether or not to follow the law, in my opinion. I believe if the evidence is there, he will be charged with espionage. Then, in my opinion, the January 6th investigation would be put on a slower track. It is a much more complex case.

[brooklynite]

21. "A lot of folks feel" is not the basis for a prosecution

The article that led to this debate provided no evidence that Trump shared or sold US secrets to Russia or anyone else.

[kentuck]

22. Yes, he will have to have the evidence.

Although there is probably enough evidence already for an obstruction charge? But, as we have learned, it is always much worse with Trump.

If they only have an "obstruction" charge to prosecute, then they should follow the law. There is no need to wait further, in my opinion.

[Fiendish Thingy]

28. Simple possession of classified docs is a violation of the Espionage Act

There doesn’t need to be proof that Trump gave or sold documents to another country for him to be charged under the act.

There are many sections to the act, and selling/giving classified documents is just one of them.

[Justice matters.]

34. Directing people with no security clearance to move TS documents around

is also a felony.

[onenote]

31. Right. "If"

You seem less certain in this post than in your OP.

[kentuck]

50. I think there is probably evidence for espionage but I don't know if Smith will charge at this time?

But, I think there is plenty of evidence already for the obstruction charge. If the evidence is there, he should be charged.

If the past is any indication, it is probably much worse than what we imagine.

[617Blue]

5. DeSantis wins the nom and that is bad news

F er actually scares me way more than Trumpo the Clown.

[MadameButterfly]

8. now that Trump has opened Pandora's Box

any Republican will be a disaster. They all know Republicans can't win in a Democracy and Trump has shown them how to just take over. They'll all do it. They'll all ignore climate change. End of Democracy, end of the world (for human habitation).

And they'll end education & free press, ban books, jail adversaries so the lemmings won't get it and we can't do anything about it.
These are the stakes.

Don't believe there are reasonable Republicans out there. The reasonable ones aren't Republicans anymore.
Even Liz Cheney, who is against insurrection, wanted to end voting rights. She's still handing the reigns of government to these people.
Susan Collins is not a moderate. George W. Bush sounds reasonable compared to these guys but he let Karl Rove pull the strings that set all this in motion.

To hell with all the former Republicans who are in shock at what the party has become. The writing was always on the wall and they went along with it. Why? For money? Now it might be too late.

[617Blue]

20. Nah the media will normalize DeSantis

I think he'll be hard to beat.

[moonscape]

56. But doesn't have the rabid MAGA

followers to the same degree, nor the corrupt national infrastructure loyalists. Biden will beat him. He has negative charisma and hates people.

Agree to being more scared of him than tfg but he’ll lose. I’m more afraid of a younger dark horse with average charisma winning the nomination.

[GreenWave]

7. And Saudi maybe got the list and killed the informants.

[anciano]

9. The DOJ has had 2 1/2 years to charge him with anything ....

but he is still playing golf and running for another term. If they don't indict him for something before the first debate in August, I fear we can just forget about it. It will be game over. Just saying.....

[kentuck]

12. It's true, the first Republican debates are in August...

...which I think Trump has refused to attend?

But if there is no indictment, on the MaL documents case, then they may have made the decision to not follow the law and our Constitution, but to follow politics? That would be sad, and bad for our country, if that were to happen, in my opinion.

So, we should expect some action before the August debates, perhaps?

[anciano]

17. Yes, I am indeed hoping that will be the case....

I totally agree that our Constitution must be upheld.

[kentuck]

19. It must.

We have no other choice.

[brooklynite]

36. What would the significance of an August debate be?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

51. Just another goalpost move from the anti-Garland crowd

They have to keep justifying their lack of support for the DOJ. Pretty soon they'll be here quoting neocon pundits about it, and using bad math to condemn Garland.

[Diamond_Dog]

10. His hard core supporters won't care, they all hate government

And would love to see it dismantled, torn down, and turned into a white supremacist fascist state.

Either that or they will just parrot “It’s a hoax and a witch hunt” like they do any time Trump is found guilty of anything.

[bucolic_frolic]

11. All of MAGA will laugh at the indictment

These are people who give a middle finger to anything the government does, to regulations, to the idea that smoking causes cancer, that scientists do valid research, that air pollution exists, all the while believing in pizza-pedophile theories, in Antifa as an organized force, in birtherism, that wealthy tax cuts create economic growth, in job creators, in drag show grooming, in banning bucks as a way to a good education.

[tinrobot]

13. A good portion of his base will think it is political.

Because that's what he'll say. He may hold on to just enough voters to get him the nomination. Doubt he wins, though.

If the charges are serious, also a good chance he flees the country.

[TeamProg]

14. Lock him up already! nt

[lpbk2713]

15. Supermax Prison.

He'll be deep inside. Neighbors with the Unibomber.

[MissMillie]

16. MAGA is already a minority in the country

But for the electoral college he would have never sat in the oval office.

I could be wrong about the ideological leanings of the electorate, but here's how I see it:

30% are progressive/liberal/Dem
30% are conservative/MAGA/GOP

40% are moderate/independent or apathetic

I can't say that I have any real data to back up my assessment, except that for years now media reporting tells us that moderates are the majority.

The 2020 election would indicate that the majority of those moderates either found TFG unlikeable enough to not vote for him or President Biden likeable enough to be elected.

I'm not sure I can predict much about what a TFG indictment (by the DOJ) will mean to the folks in the middle. There will be, to be sure, the apathetic bunch that will remain apathetic.

One would hope that the rest of "the middle" would come to the realization that these so-called "witch hunts" just turned up a big, bad, Wicked Witch. (Then again, some folks may decide that indictment isn't enough to sway them. They will make up their minds after TFG has his day in court.)

[Tree Lady]

54. I think a lot of people 30-60 are just busy

working and not paying attention like we are, the ones that vote just vote for team A or B no real reason. I hear people say things like all politicians are the same, but they aren't saying why just non knowledge from a lack of caring beyond their own environment.

[kentuck]

18. Naturally, there is a lot of skepticism and pessimism.

Otherwise, how do we defend ourselves from these attacks, if we do not require Justice to do its job?

[Kid Berwyn]

23. Time for Plan B

The GOP will shit bricks and complain about witch hunt. But that refrain will die out as the evidence is revealed in court and Corporate McPravda “explains” how it aided the nation’s enemies. Meanwhile, Putin will activate the next robopol.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

24. Dust off Old Sparky, he deserves everything the Rosenberg's got in 1953

[Firestorm49]

25. Charge him with espionage? A dream come true.

[kentuck]

26. The argument would be: It will tear the country apart.

In my opinion, it is the opposite that is true. If we do not adhere to our laws and our Constitution, that will tear the country apart. No doubt, there will be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[Joinfortmill]

38. Completely agree

[lindysalsagal]

27. The thug won't stop revealing our secrets until he's imprisoned.

We need a way to get him there. I don't care which way, just do it.

[malaise]

29. Well first Imscream with delight

Then I pop a cork and start drinking😀😀😀

[Enoki33]

30. I suspect it has taken this long for a

variety of reasons, foremost of which is his past catching up with him. There is a lot there that lays the groundwork for his current betrayal. The scope and depth of selling out his country will be breathtaking. Again, just my opinion.

[Joinfortmill]

40. I'm with you.

[Botany]

32. I'll mix up a batch of "Stormy Daniels" and invite all of DU over

[Orrex]

33. Seriously?

If he's charged with espionage, he'll be appointed god-king of the GOP in perpetuity, and KKKonservative media will begin a 24/7 propaganda storm declaring his innocence while condemning the woke deep state for daring to challenge The Great Man.

At the very least, every member of the GOP falls in drone-like lockstep to vote for their sacred orange prolapse, and they will do everything that they can, legally or otherwise, to make sure that he stays in power for the rest of his already decades-too-long life.

Thereafter he will be succeeded by whichever extremist Reichwing fascist that he appoints as his heir, and the worship will continue.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

41. No. That's beyond hyperbole. . . . . nt

[Orrex]

55. I should have checked with you first to make sure that my views are in line with the status quo

[Bernardo de La Paz]

57. Don't be ridiculous. . . . nt

[Orrex]

58. Don't be a gatekeeper

[Bernardo de La Paz]

61. I'm not. I simply disagree with your post and consider so far gone that it is beyond hyperbole

You are free to be ridiculous.

[Orrex]

63. And an accurate description of your posting history might get my reply hidden

Nevertheless, here goes: your MO is to insult, mock, belittle, and deride into silence those who don't buy into your shtick. That's how you act as a gatekeeper. I've seen you do it for years, you clearly get off on it, and it's disingenuous of you to pretend otherwise.

Not surprising, but disingenuous all the same.

The fact that you couldn't resist your kneejerk impulse to ridicule, even my post that was obviously meant as an over-the-top riff, simply proves the point.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

64. No. As if you don't have a schtick and an axe. . nt

[Orrex]

65. LOL. My shtick is to ridicule the bullies and the kneejerk cheerleaders

That's very different from mocking people who post to express their entirely natural frustration and anxiety; such mockery is a deliberate act of kicking them when they're down.

If you're unable (or chose not) to see the difference, then that's all the reason I need to continue the shtick.

[Joinfortmill]

44. Anything is possible, but I think indicting him will end this growing fascist movement

[kentuck]

52. I do not think his supporters take seriously the Stormy Daniels or the Manhattan cases...

But would look differently at possible Federal charges, such as obstruction or espionage. Also, I agree with you that this might end the growing fascist movement, or at the very least, slow it down.

[Joinfortmill]

35. Totally agree. My guess is the majority of Americans will turn against Trump and his entire family.

One caveat is that the evidence must be solid and air tight. There must be no question about what Trump did.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. Generally agree. If no evidence of recipients, then magats will say "fake case", etc

Not that we care much if magats say that. We've heard it before.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. It'll be "Russiagate hoax again", "witchhunt", "deep state", "uniparty", "cw2", "lampposts",

Hunter, Hillary, Obama, Soros, WEF, globohomo political prisoner, persecution, ....

[Johonny]

42. He wins the GOP primaries in a landslide

[Mr. Ected]

43. Frankly, I'm shocked that Trump hasn't already died of asphyxiation

Being constantly surrounded by so many smoking guns.

Trump is going down. MAGA will freak out. MAGA will report on every media outlet and every day that their vengeance will be to re-elect Trump in 2024 to put our country into a constitutional crisis.

I think the aim all along has been to put our country in a constitutional crisis. Blow it up, replace it with MAGA fascism.

This may be the best and last chance for them to achieve their goal. The American people had better take note. Your vote is your weapon. If you don't deploy it at a time of war, you're apt to have to pay the price in the end.

MAGA doesn't ever consider the merits of a case against one of theirs. They will spin, deflect, obfuscate, misidentify the crime and talk endlessly about the mischaracterization, and generally mislead its people to believe the unbelievable.

If Trump remains a free man for the rest of his days, I can't even.

[jaxexpat]

48. "Trump.......died of asphyxiation.....surrounded by so many smoking guns."

That's good stuff, Mr. Ected! An apropos use of the language art.

[Liberty Belle]

45. DeSantis will promise to pardon him- anything to win MAGA votes.

Most of the rest of the country will be celebrating.

[Fla Dem]

46. They'll probably go back into the darkness where they were before.

The only difference is they're better organized and have resources they didn't have before MAGA. They have many more of their ilk in political positions; locally, statewide and nationally. They'll be pulling a lot of string to unseat Democrats and reverse legislation they don't agree with and pass restrictive legislation against LBGTQ, transgender and other stuff they don't agree with.

[jaxexpat]

47. ".......our Constitution must be defended and preserved."

That'll be a good idea. When do we start?

I mean, like (to name but a few):

> "Well-regulated" is the same as "everybody however they want", even in secret conspiratorial groups. Right?
> "Citizen" is a business organized with its the sole purposes are to make profit and influence elections. Right?
> "Equal protection" is like when women must go to term with babies who will be stillborn and LEO's have no accountability for their bullying, threatening and illegal behavior. Right?
> Personal accountability is when you're too poor and powerless to afford and use the justice system. Right?

The DOJ will need to turn itself inside out to charge Trump with espionage or just about any crime he's committed which addresses the seriousness of his threat to the country. I'm hoping for a triple gainer or some other such Olympian contortion from Garland, but he'll still need a perfect score because there are people in power against him who not only believe in a flat Earth theory, but they also swear by trickle-down economics. Stone Mountain, Ga. dumb!

[Marthe48]

49. Not just the Constitution

He betrayed our country to the fullest breadth and depth that treachery can reach

He has lived his life as if he is fully and utterly above the law and answers to no human or spiritual law or moral precepts.

He should have been brought down before he ever got this far in his dishonorable actions, in his personanl relationships, his business and most of all his degradation of government.

[Bayard]

53. There will be great rejoicing in the streets?

Except for a relatively small group of MAGATs.

[Aristus]

59. Red-state America will go very noisily, very violently insane.

I'm sure they'll think it's the start of the 'race war' they claim they've always wanted. But I strongly suspect that they will splat very nicely once a few National Guard tanks turn some antipersonnel rounds on them.

[GoodRaisin]

60. He probably won't become King

like he was planning on doing.

[LudwigPastorius]

66. I don't know that Garland will pull the trigger on espionage charges.

...you know, "for the good of the country".

More likely the charges will be some/all of:

Obstruction
Criminal contempt
False statements
Conversion of government property
Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material
Removing and concealing government records