How Israel is "colonizing" Arab Land

[question everything]

[Cha]

1. I can't see the blue dot.

[question everything]

4. At the top of the Red Sea, where Aftica meets Asia.

[Cha]

9. Ohh I made it larger.. I see it

Now. I have bad eyes.

TY

[Mossfern]

2. It's more like

a little darker squiggle.

[3Hotdogs]

3. --- difference is, the black squiggle didn't exist before 1949. AND ---

it keeps getting bigger and bigger.


Carry on.

[question everything]

6. It certainly did. Maps included it as part of the Ottoman Emprie but if you will bother

to look at old Roman maps, you will find it.

But you can always borrow Whiny Donny’s sharpie and change it to your heart desire.

[Chainfire]

8. Well, I hope that the people who owned my land 2500 years ago don't come back to throw me out.

Because if they did, I would have fight them for it.

[Beastly Boy]

13. Does the same principle apply to the people who "owned" your land in 1950?

Like Jordan and Egypt?

[Chainfire]

18. I don't speak for Jordan, Egypt or Israel or Palestine.

[Beastly Boy]

19. Then, when you mention "people who owned my land 2500 years ago", you must be referring to the

Babylonians. Or is it the Persians? Couldn't be the Macedonians, that happened later.

Or are you referring to a hypothetical land that you hypothetically hold an ownership title to and hope that people who hypothetically held the ownership title to it 2500 years ago don't take it? If that is the case, I have no idea what you are drawing parallels to.

[RockRaven]

29. The person you are responding to is, based upon other easily perused postings,

apparently a citizen and resident of the USA. Ergo, a reference to the prior owners, 2500 years ago, of "my land" is reasonably presumed to be a reference to the indigenous people of the land which the poster currently lives upon, i.e. Native Americans.

Why that is difficult for one to understand is something only that particular non-understanding person could reflect upon and answer.

[Beastly Boy]

31. So, taking your presumption for for a given,

the time period of 2500 years ago would refer to native Americans whose descendants, should they come to take the current resident's (presumably non-native American's) land away from him, would seriously piss him off.

That, by analogy, would explain why the Palestinians are pissed off, but do nothing to justify their claim to the land.

[Happy Hoosier]

14. That's not exactly the way it happened...

But hey…. Anything to vilify the Ebil Israelis.

[brooklynite]

10. Of course the Arab nations tried to make it smaller and smaller...

…but you knew that.

[Beastly Boy]

12. Most of the green blob didn't exist before 1919.

And remind me, what happened to the Sinai Peninsula in 1979?

And your point is?

[claudette]

5. It's more

obvious that they are illegally colonizing the West Bank and maybe now trying to take Gaza. It’s surprising what a country can do with the foreign aid and weapons from America and other allies.

[question everything]

7. You may want to read about the 1967 war when Israel - alone - captured the West Bank and Gaza

France stopped any shipment of promised fighter jets.

Wikipedia may be a good way to start.

[questionseverything]

11. They also bombed the uss liberty

Last edited Sun Nov 5, 2023, 01:17 AM - Edit history (1)

Probably with bombs us citizens paid for

[petronius]

23. The Cole was attacked by Al-Qaeda. Perhaps you mean USS Liberty? (nt)

[questionseverything]

30. Ty

[Happy Hoosier]

15. We can agree on the illegal settlements on the West Bank

I doubt they will try to seize Gaza… but we’ll see.

[Big Blue Marble]

20. Yes, this is the point to really focus.

They even acknowledge that fact as they call themselves settlers.

[betsuni]

16. K&R

[anamnua]

17. Hitch nailed it:

[Delphinus]

39. Thank you

I hadn't seen those clips of Hitchens. The thought that this is happening so that the "Messiah" can come really is mind-blowing.

[Mosby]

45. He's not correct

That's not what messianic Jews think. They believe that settling across the land of Israel is one of the requirements to bring the messiah, removing others is not part of that.

[David__77]

21. Is this an argument that Israel is a "small" colonialism?

[Happy Hoosier]

24. A colony of what?

Colonies are a product of Imperialist expansion. What emprire is Israel a colony of? I think you can argue that the West Bank settlements are colonies, but not Israel itself.

I'd argue that Israel is a refugee movement, not a colonial movement.

[David__77]

25. I was asking if the argument was that Israel is a small colony.

If so, there might be more information on that.

[ColinC]

27. Israel is a former colony of the British Empire and exists solely because of that fact

What emprire is Israel a colony of?

[Happy Hoosier]

33. What? No it's not!

Only a small portion of the Jews in Israel were from the British Isles. Most were from Eastern Europe, and later from Arab nations that Jews were expelled from. There is nothing British in the nature of the culture or organization of the early state of Israel.

With all due respect, that’s a preposterous argument.

[IronLionZion]

22. The green countries don't understand why they need to accept more Palestinian refugees

and Palestinian people don't understand why they need to leave the blue area.

For comparison, the main reason I steal jobs from "real Americans" is that I have moved every few months all across the USA and other Americans like to own homes and land.

[ColinC]

26. They aren't colonizing Arab land

They are colonizing, encroaching on, and breaking treaties with Palestinians and their land. Before them it was England on the same territory that also did not belong to them.

[David__77]

28. The role of Britain in this region is villainous.

[Happy Hoosier]

34. All the European Colonial Powers played a role....

BVut Britains role in Palestine was largely a caretaker role. The Mandate was never seen as a permanent posesion. In fact, Brtain had intended to "resolve" the issue in the 30's, but then war in Europe started.

[Happy Hoosier]

35. Do you actually know any of the history of the region?

Last edited Sun Nov 5, 2023, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)

The last time it was an independent entity is before the Romans conquered the Kingdom of Judea. Since the Romans, it has been part of one Empire or another... After armed revolts against Rome in the 2nd c, Jews were dispersed and heavily sanctioned in Judea. With the break-up of the Empire, it came under Byzantine control, then in the 7th c, the Muslim CONQUEST of the Levant occured, and the region came under direct religious rule under the Muslim Rashidan Caliphate. Jews were further dispersed as they were not permitted autonomous enclaves. Over the next few centuries, it was part of various caliphates... it was briefly held as the "Kingdom of Jerusalem" after the first Crusade before that Crusader Kingdom fell and it was again under various Muslim empires, first in the 13th c under the Mamluk (Egypt) Sultanate, and finally in the 16th c it was taken by the Ottoman Empire, where it remained until the Ottomans were defeated and destroyed as part of the Central Powers in WWI. Britain was just the allied power that took Palestine during WWI (think: Lawrence of Arabia). At that time, Jews were largely scattered over the Levant. The population of Palestine was about 13% Jewish in 1918. Following WWI, and in response to historic widespread Antisemitism in Europe, emigration to Palestine increased. And, of course, following WWII and the Holocaust, it increased dramatically. The population of the region in 1946 was 40% Jewish.

A lot of folks I know somehow think The JEWS invaded a sovereign country and took it by force.... or that the British did it to give it to the The JEWS.



Neither is true.

[question everything]

37. What an excellent summary. Perhaps an OP at some point

[PCIntern]

32. Yeah, right...

Israel won a defensive war in 1967 and conquered the West Bank and Sinai, the latter was given back to the Egyptians in return for peace and for Egypt being given a huge amount of money from the US annually. There is no way that the Israelis are going to live with that pinched middle between two hostile forces. Land won in a defensive war is by all rights possessed by the victor. And quite frankly, it doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks: they are never ever going to return to pre-1967 boundaries. Any statement which states that it is “illegal”, is just plain wrong.

And I might add that the only time this ever becomes an issue is when it involves Israel. No other country is subjected to these “rules“.

[Redleg]

36. It seems to me that the Ukrainians might disagree about your last sentence

In fact, there have been quite a few conflicts about the ownship of border regions that quite a few people have cared cared about. Do you remember the dissolution of the former Yugoslavia?

[David__77]

38. Do you support the settlements?

[PCIntern]

40. Are they built upon land

Which was acquired during a war in which they were attacked by all of their powerful neighbors? Yes or no. If yes, then they are entitled to “settle” upon them in the same manner in which we “settled” the state of Texas. Or perhaps more righteously than our colonization of that rather large territory.

[David__77]

41. Got it. Would Israel be justified in deporting Gaza people?

[PCIntern]

42. Do you believe that by asking simplistic questions that you are going to trick me or that I will see

“The error of my ways”?

Here’s a question for you, or rather, another question: was Jesus, assuming he existed, Jewish?

And the follow-up: Did he live in what is referred to by certain individuals as The Holy Land?

[David__77]

43. I really don't know.

I think it is reasonable to discuss outcomes of the current conflict. The Israeli government raised the possibility of removal of the Gaza population.

[PCIntern]

44. Well,

None of the Arab countries have ever wanted these people. The leadership was expelled from Jordan and believe me when I tell you that all those countries such as Saudi Arabia and Jordan are very happy to watch Hamas be dismembered. Because THEY ARE NEXT for Hamas .

Pan-Arabism is deader than a doornail.