As an Agnostic, hasn't society had enough of religion?

[Pototan]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Yonnie3 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

A little background. I have always been a religious skeptic, even from my early days. I remember at 12 years old, which would have been in the early sixties. My parents put me in Catechism class to prepare me for my Confirmation. My parents were Italian Catholics. It was just about the time that the Vatican allowed meat to be eaten on Fridays without it being a Cardinal sin. Well, one day I raised my hand to ask the Nun, in front of the class, "If my uncle was on a street corner on a Friday night 2 years ago and ate a hamburger and died without any other sins on his soul that night, he would have gone to hell. If his brother stood at that same corner this Friday night and ate a hamburger and dies without any sins on his soul, he goes to Heaven. How's that fair?" Well, that Nun was not happy and shoed me out of the room and called my father. My father said that the question I asked was for God to decide and I wasn't to ask that Nun any more questions in front of the class. If I had questions, bring them home.

Anyway, a little side story before I get to my point. I don't know if there's a God, and to be perfectly honest, I really don't care. I've read the Bible, especially the New Testament for its historical significance. After all, it was the only book people read for a couple of thousand years. There are nuggets of importance in that book. I admire Jesus the philosopher. Mathew 25, Sermon on the Mount, do unto others and tolerance. Jesus was far more a Socialist than I am. He advised his Disciples to sell everything they owned and give the money to the poor. I don't mind giving my share to charity, but there's no fucking way I'm selling everything I own and giving it to anyone. Sorry. Can't do. I agree on some levels, but I reserve my right to disagree. I am able to separate the philosophy from the fairy tales in the Bible, hence my being an Agnostic.

But, to my point in the title. Jews, Christians and Muslims all come from the same teachings of one God. That's why all of their Holy sites are clustered together in the same area. But what God taught all of you to kill each other? Christians are just an offshoot of Judaism. After all, you can't be a Christian without believing in the Old Testament (Torah). Yet, for hundreds of years, Christians killed Jews during the Inquisition. Protestants killed Catholics; Shiites slaughtered Sunnis. Jews Killed Muslims. Christians killed Muslims. Muslims killed Christians. It never ends, it only gets worse. Alright, maybe I can understand the ignorant people of the eleventh century following superstitions and not knowing any better. But fucking 2024. Give me a break.

When will the rest of us say, "enough"?

[elleng]

1. I'd sure think so.

Amazes me that so many appear to think they're 'handicapped' without a big crutch in the sky.

Nature's fine for me, but can't say I'm particularly fond of 'human' nature.

[Ponietz]

2. Science isn't enough; storytelling is vital

https://theconversation.com/in-a-time-of-information-overload-enigmatic-philosopher-byung-chul-han-seeks-the-re-enchantment-of-the-world-225176

https://hyperallergic.com/878913/artist-chavis-marmol-crushes-tesla-with-colossal-olmec-head-sculpture

[Stargazer99]

3. I do believe in God but I have to agree with the poster-religion managed by man is a killer quite often

[Stargazer99]

5. The atheist and agnostic need to be left alone as long as they are not hurting others

and I believe to leave people alone and not force religion on anyone as Jesus did not force anyone.

[2naSalit]

12. But...

Religion is a human construction so it will always be managed by man.

Personally, I have no beliefs, in or of anything. It's much easier to understand a lot of things without the cloud of religion over the lens.

[Pototan]

19. My point exactly

[Sky Jewels]

42. If you believe in a god,

then that implies your deity has supernatural powers. Therefore the deity either causes or allows all sorts of horrors every second. What a cruel, murderous asshole.

[Think. Again.]

4. Well said.

[eShirl]

6. Your post reminded me of a Tom Leher classic.

National Brotherhood Week

[DFW]

29. A memorable song!

Get out and shake the hand
Of someone you can’t stand
It’s only for a week so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn’t last all year!

[betsuni]

7. I don't understand the point here.

Religion, superstitions, mythology is a very human thing.

[Pototan]

9. Simple point

Religion causes much more misery than comfort.

Now, please don't confuse my criticism of religion to belief in God. They are not the same. You can believe in God without belonging to an organized religion.

History has proven that far too many conflicts are the result of one religion fighting another.

So, the point is, if religions can't live in peace with each other, we'd be better off with no organized religions.

[betsuni]

11. How do you know religion causes much more misery than comfort?

"You can believe in God without belonging to an organized religion." What does that mean?

"History has proven that far too many conflicts are the result of one religion fighting another." No it hasn't. Usually about other things. Anthropology 101.

[Pototan]

14. How do I know religion causes so much misery?

3000 years of history.

Oh, and by the way, what is the conflict in Gaza about? Oh, I know, religion.

And, by the way, there are plenty of people who believe in God without belonging to any religion.

[betsuni]

18. No. Religion is an excuse, like anything else. You meant to say that plenty of people believe in gods and spirits

and mythology. Not one God.

[Gore1FL]

23. God is typically invoked by one side or another.

It's an easy way to artifically work up the troops and comfort the peple back home.

[betsuni]

24. Which "God"? There are many gods and spirits and supernatural creatures people on this planet believe in.

[Gore1FL]

26. Whatever their imagination creates. The is no God, in reality. nt

[betsuni]

27. Yet people think they know everything, like gods. Whatever their imagination creates.

[Pototan]

33. Man was not created in God's image

God was created in Man's image

[Gore1FL]

39. Exactly. Then they start wars. NT

[elleng]

15. Thanks. With you.

Stepping away now. (Actually going to bed!)

[Happy Hoosier]

44. To our destruction.

Simply put, in the 21st century we should be able to understand religion, superstition and mythology for what it is.

But for FAR too many people, the embrace of fanciful belief authorizes all sorts of tyranny of outright assholery.

I've personally had enough of that.

[speak easy]

8. "But what God taught all of you to kill each other? "

Oh I don't know - The 6th Commandment? Turn the other cheek? Love thy neighbor as thy self?

What men / religious leaders / politicians "taught all of you to kill each other?" Now you're talking!

[Pototan]

10. My question was rhetorical

"What God taught you to kill each other?" is meant to be interpreted exactly as you did. In other words, no God would teach his children to kill each other.

[Gore1FL]

25. I submit Romans 8:31 gives anyne a blank check to do anything they want in the name of God.

If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not withhold his own Son, but gave him up for all of us, will he not with him also give us everything else? Who will bring any charge against God's elect?

[brooklynite]

38. And you know God taught you those things....how?

[malaise]

13. Sick of all of them

They are the biggest assault on reason and all for power and greed.
Humans know better.

[elleng]

16. SHOULD know better.

'Later.'

[malaise]

31. True

[Karadeniz]

17. Actually, some parts of planet earth may be ready to replace the mistaken

aspect of religions with beliefs closer to truth. I've been calling for such a reevaluation for years here, almost always pilloried by the atheists whom I find rather violently opposed to anything but nihilism. Nevertheless, science may push us along as quantum physics validates the extraordinary powers of the Mind to influence the material world. Thanks to researchers into many aspects of Mind, medical advances allowing Mind's experiences despite a nonfunctional brain (NDEs and mediums) to be examined and analyzed, regressive hypnosis to understand what Mind can report of other realities or dimensions and verifiable evidence that one Mind can survive the death of one body and enter another body later (reincarnation), and the life altering knowledge by those who survive NDEs...
thanks to all such access now possible, a new spiritual understanding just may be possible.

[TxGuitar]

45. Ok that's a lot of nonsense

And this is ridiculous: "atheists whom I find rather violently opposed to anything but nihilism". Wiki calls nihilism a philosophy that "rejects generally accepted or fundamental aspects of human existence, such as knowledge, morality and meaning". Nothing could be further from the truth.
Theists seem to think that atheism informs and influences the atheist's way of life the way religion or spirituality does for them, that there are atheist meetings, an atheist bible, atheists going door to door, etc--it doesn't. It's simply the realization that there is no higher power coming to save you, no magic karma that will even things out for you, no saint that will intercede for you. No atheist is against knowledge, morality or meaning. We just know that it's not something magical that comes from the Sky Santa, that knowledge, morality and meaning are knowable and achievable without resorting to some god working in mysterious ways.
"One god further"

[WmChris]

20. My feelings also

Religion has been perverted by many different sects. The basic tenents of them share many good guidelines to live by. I doubt though if there is a supreme being of some sort he/she/it isn't pleased with what some of the extremist adherents have done twisting a code of love into a cult of hate.

[CCExile]

21. Amen, human!

Testify!

[surfered]

22. "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled...

…With the entrails of the last priest.”
Diderot

[malaise]

32. THIS

Rec

[samnsara]

28. a religious war can never be one. Its so divisive....just my opinion...

[Walleye]

30. Religion is based in misogyny

Almost all religions believe that God is a guy, and that women are evil, inherently. They may try to hide it, but that’s what they believe

[Sky Jewels]

43. THIS.

The main function of almost all religions is instilling, promoting and maintaining male supremacy. The stupid-ass big three monotheisms have been waging a reign of terror against women for many centuries. In this country, Christianity is the main weapon used against half the population. I fucking despise it. t’s cockamamie, convoluted nonsense, even as far as mythologies go. Magic isn’t real, supernatural beings don’t actually exist and Jesus is never coming back.

[Goodheart]

34. As an atheist I say "yes"

What's with this "agnostic" stuff? We're ALL agnostics, god believers and atheists alike.

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

35. It's time we as a species evolve beyond religion. - eom

[MiHale]

36. Your experience echoes my own...

Polish Catholic mom, Dad Lithuanian Catholic. Must be around the same age cause I remember the Friday meat fiasco, had some of the same type of arguments. Catechism Class is where I declared myself atheist. I could not believe any god could allow ‘his’ creations to be treated so inhumanly by each other. I decided that the Catholic Church itself was mostly atheist, they dismissed every other god but one. If a church could just say these gods didn’t exist then why couldn’t I say the ‘last god standing’ didn’t exist.

Religion was and still is to some degree a way to explain the unexplained to the unknowing to make some sense out of the unknown. It’s story telling at its finest. As we uncover more and more about how things work we understand more letting religious stories take a back seat.

Community is important to many people it gives a sense of familiarity and comfort with a shared set of beliefs that bond individuals even more tightly. This is all good, it only becomes dangerous when an ‘infected idea’ is spliced onto existing beliefs and spread throughout the community. The starter recipe for war.

[Croney]

37. As an atheist I say yes, of course.

[Chainfire]

40. I don't care how people decide to spend their Saturday or Sunday as long as the leave me out of it.

When religion begins to be mixed with government, yes, it is a bridge too far.

[Sympthsical]

41. Religion doesn't go away - it just gets reworked

Some of the most dedicated atheists I know are also unbending ideologues whose thinking looks and sounds a lot like religion when you listen to them half a second.

There's something in the human psyche that is wired to see the world - and social behavior - in certain ways.

Take away God, the rituals, the dogma, and the rules, and people will plug in the Cause, the cosplay, the dogma, and the rules.

It seems like there's a core belief structure that needs saints and sinners, adherents and heretics, in groups and out groups. Maybe something about how we've evolved socially.

It never really changes.

And I say this as an atheist/agnostic myself.

[lindysalsagal]

46. Marriage, religion, all stone-age social structures we've long-since grown out of

Patriarchy happened when warriors fought for territory, women being only slightly more valuable than livestock. But always replaceable.

[Yonnie3]

47. Locking after alerts and a discussion by the hosts

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