About psycho noem. . several questions for those who are,

[niyad]

or at least familiar with, farming/ranching. First, how many farns/ranches have their own gravel pits? Is this something common? (And I think that gravel pit needs to be examined. Hiw many missing persons reports have there been in that area over, say, the last 30 years?)

Second, she says she had to go back to her car to get another shell. Does that mean she commonly drives around armed with a shotgun, or are we to think it was just because she had been out hunting? And, if she is a hunter, shouldn't she be a better shot?

Third, she has now bragged that she shot three 25-year old horses in the last few weeks. Aren't there vets for this now? And, unless they were seriously ill or physically incapacitated, wouldn't sending them to an old horses home, or an equine therapy ranch, make sense?

I wonder how screwed up her kids are.

This city woman really wants to know.

[Squaredeal]

1. In some states the penalty for animal cruelty is five years.

Society doesn’t want these psychopaths on the streets because it’s a gateway crime to murder, in many instances.

[Demsrule86]

7. We rescued 'Lucky' when we live in GA...she a mutt. There was some lab and God knows what

else. Her owners in the mountains of Georgia had got her as a pup. They tied her outside and left her there. She was in the snow and rain...until she was about a year old. Lucky and another dog got out and killed some chickens. It is what dogs do. The other dog's owner saw that the brutal owner of Lucky intended to shoot her. He stopped it and called the cops.

The cops told the owner...give us the dog or go to jail for animal abuse. She was rescued. She was a sweet dog...the kids picked her over adorable puppies. She was very loveable. We had her for about 15 years...still miss that dog.

Lucky was a pain in the as and required a couple thousand dollars of veterinary care when we got her due to neglect. She would run like crazy once she adjusted to our house. Before that, she was afraid to leave the House. We had to put her in the car and take her to the park to walk her. If you left a sandwich out she would half and leave half for you.
She got out in Wisconsin. My sister-in-law let her out without a leash. I was at work. She chased a jogger. Interestingly, the cop who came disliked the jogger and said Lucky wasn't a threat. She had to spend two weeks at the vet for observation. Even though she had shots. I was furious. And yelled at the kids (who were supposed to walk her). Somehow the vet thought I would put her down. I wouldn't. The governor is a vile woman and a monster if you ask me for what she did to that poor dog and the goat..

Anyway, when I went to pick her up the entire office staff were in tears. They began to attempt to get me to give one of them Lucky and not put her down. I had no intention of putting her down. And told them so. They were so relieved. They had waited all afternoon for me; the last appointment was at noon. They had not even called to see if I could come earlier. That dog could endear herself to every living creature except rabbits and chickens. She was a pain in the ass, and she slept at the foot of my bed her entire life after we adopted her. But we loved her and she was ours.

[Hugin]

2. Hmm... I guess some ballistic tests on the rash of shotgunned road signs...

Could be warranted. I can believe Stop signs make Noem angry.

Although, I personally am not a hunter, I have been in and have driven many bonafide ranch/farm vehicles. Some equipped with gun racks complete with shotguns and hunting rifles. I have never seen shotgun shells rolling around on the floor.

[CrispyQ]

3. I thought three horses in a short period of time seemed excessive & warrants some questions.

This morning I read a DU post that insinuated Noem shot the goat right after shooting the dog & she only maimed the goat with the first shot & had to shoot it a second time to kill it.

I'm equally disturbed that she did these horrific acts but also that she wrote about them in her book & apparently thought Americans would be okay with it. Fucking sicko.

[yardwork]

30. You're accurately summarizing how Noem described shooting her goat.

The entire passage from the book is available on the internet to read. It's quite horrific and just as bad as her killing the dog. Maybe even worse, since the goat did nothing wrong other than act like a typical adult male goat that hasn't been neutered.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. She mentioned workers at the gravel pit; it was probably private.

Driving around with a shotgun isn't unusual. If her description is accurate, she didn't take care with the shot putting the goat down.

25 for a horse within a normal lifespan. It's not always possible to get a vet out if a horse when a horse should be put down. Dumping senior horses on rescues or therapy ranches isn't helpful.

[niyad]

5. There are specific rescues for older horses. As for not being able

Last edited Fri May 3, 2024, 11:47 AM - Edit history (1)

to get a vet out in time, how likely is it that those three horses were suddenly in a crisis situation that she didn't mention as explanation?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. Right, but it's irresponsible to try to give a horse to a rescue when it's really time for it to be put down.

I'm sure it's very unlikely that it was a crisis situation specifically for Noem. It does happen, though.

[Demsrule86]

8. Oh yeah? And who decides that. My friend rescues pony's and horses...it is very rewarding.

And the animals lead happy lives.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. Who decides what? When it's time for an animal to be put down?

Usually the owner, sometimes in consultation with a vet, and sometimes not. People do have different ideas about when it's time to put an animal down.

[LiberalFighter]

18. Do you think she would bother consulting a vet?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Who knows? Does it matter? She's a terrible person either way.

Some people do, some people don't, there's a wide range of experiences and situations.

[LiberalFighter]

23. It calls into question her character.

So yes it does matter.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. I had a solid opinion of her character before this book came out, which is why I don't see digging into further details

as particularly useful.

[Demsrule86]

21. Some people have been known to put down animals because they don't want to be bothered or

just dump them especially big animals like horses...it is not uncommon.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

27. It certainly does happen.

[SarahD]

20. When the horse is no longer convenient.

When an animal is no fun anymore, that's it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Those are certainly some criteria that people may use when making a decision.

[Hugin]

28. Noem is just echoing the Republican's plan for Social Security...

Which amounts to shoving a pillow in grandma’s face.

[stopdiggin]

26. "this city woman wants to know"

but apparently not really.
(you and several others on the thread have made good faith effort .. )

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. Yeah, this is an odd one.

A: This sounds terrible, does it ever happen?

B: It can.

A: But it's terrible, right?

B: There are very straightforward reasons it could happen that have nothing to do with someone's moral character.

A: Okay but this terrible person is terrible for doing it, right?

B: Like??? Have whatever feeling you want about it??

[jcgoldie]

10. I raise dairy goats and have LGDs

Some of your questions I cannot answer. I've lived on various farms throughout my life and never heard of one with a "gravel pit".

I am also not a hunter but I do have a .22 rifle and have to use it a couple of times a year unfortunately to put down a dying animal. Once goats or cows or horses get down and cannot move they can live in pain and deteriorating health for several days and the humane thing to do is to put them down quickly. There is also unfortunately less and less veterinarians who are willing to make farm calls or even see large animals so its not practical for small farmers to have the vet do it. I would certainly never shoot an animal I had to tie to a post as it was jumping to avoid being shot. That clearly is not an animal that needs to be put down. Further, you have no business owning goats if you shoot a billy because it stinks. They go into rut each year, they pee on themselves its not abnormal behavior. Its also unlikely the goat was any kind of threat to children.

As for the chicken killing dog. Unless you own livestock guard dogs who have a very low prey instinct and can be trained to protect chickens, it is pretty normal behavior for puppies to accidentally kill chickens and if they do so then it is your fault for not keeping them away from those situations. Even with LGDs, I have had a a young dog who started killing my wife's free range chickens. You have to supervise them when they are young and correct them when they show any sign of wanting to chase it. It starts innocently enough because chickens dart around and do things puppie interpret as play. Once it becomes a habit, however, its hard to break them of it. That particular dog I had to give away to someone who just wanted a pet and didn't have chickens. You have to be a complete asshole to shoot a dog over that behavior instead of just rehoming it.

[yardwork]

41. This is such an excellent post.

To me, Noem sounds like a wannabe "farmer" who wants to say she has livestock and hunts, etc., but can't be bothered to learn how to do things right. Frustrated that these animals didn't magically train themselves and/or were more work/more yucky than she expected, she shot them. The fact that she thinks this is a virtue on her part leaves me mind boggled. A normal person would feel shame that they failed so miserably. She's bragging about it.

To me, that's the worst part.

[Kaleva]

10. When I was young, animals were routinely shot for whatever reason

I don't recall anyone taking a pet to the nearest vet. Puppies that weren't given away were shot. Kittens were put in a mesh bag with a weight and drowned in a bucket or nearby stream .

I myself have put down pets that were severely injured or very sick. I've also butchered animals like chickens and cattle. I don't like it one bit but it was part of living on a small farm and working at a larger one.

I don't think what the Governor did was unusual for a state that is very rural.

[jcgoldie]

12. killing kittens and puppies the way you describe is simply animal cruelty

The fact that you've seen the behavior when you were young does nothing to excuse it.

[Kaleva]

14. Who here asked you to accept it?

I'm just telling you and others how it was.

You could make a difference by making donations to animal shelters in rural counties.

[jcgoldie]

15. It doesn't matter if I "accept it"

In my experience living on a farm my entire life surrounded by other farms it is certainly "unusual" as well as excessively cruel to put kittens in a bag and drown them in a bucket and it is also cruel to tie a goat to a post and shoot at it as it jumps around because you don't like its stench. And it is also cruel to shoot a puppy for killing a chicken rather than trying to find it a home without chickens.

[Kaleva]

35. Your opinion is your opinion

Nobody here is trying to make you think otherwise

[jcgoldie]

40. ethics exists outside subjective opinions

It is wrong to be cruel to humans regardless of anyone's opinion and these extreme cases of animal cruelty are also unethical regardless of my opinion or yours.

[Kaleva]

42. And that's your opinion

[jcgoldie]

43. no.

fail.

[Kaleva]

44. Yes

Unless you can show that you set the standard for what is and what isn't acceptable standards if behaviour . If you can't, then you are expressing an opinion

[jcgoldie]

46. So your fucking argument...

Is that putting kittens in a fucking bag and drowning them in a bucket is “acceptable standards of behavior”? What the fuck are you even talking about??

[kcr]

17. It very much sounds like we're being asked to accept it

"Because that's just how (horrifying thing) is/was done in x/y/x area of the country/world vets are expensive you just don't understand liberal city slicker" is a way lots of horrific things are defended.

[Kaleva]

34. Who here is asking you to accept it?

I bet you can't point to one single example.

People often read what they want into statements rather then going by what was actually written.

[obamanut2012]

37. I grew up rural, and most of my friends were farm kids

My uncle at that time had a dairy farm. I am almost 60.

They did not do this, ever. They never cruelly killed companion animals, including horses -- the vet came. These were working farms, too.

[Elessar Zappa]

24. I don't care if it was "routine",

doing that to puppies and kittens is psycho-level sick. Them being rural or a rancher/farmer doesn’t excuse monstrous actions.

[Kaleva]

36. That's fine

[obamanut2012]

38. That poster is wrong -- it isn't routine

Almost all of my friends from K-12 were farm kids who lived on working farms. My uncle had a working dairy farm. Companion and wokring animals are not routinely treated cruelly or killed this way. That is what the vet does.

[progressoid]

13. I've spent a lot of time in South Dakota. Was just up there here last week.

First, I'll say I'm not defending what she did. And I haven't had the time nor inclination to delve deeply into her version(s) of what happened.

That said, it doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary. I grew up around it. Life is brutal on the farm. Sometimes by necessity. Sometimes by choice. Sometimes by conventional practice.

Yes there are gravel pits on farms. SD is a rocky state.

I haven't read her account about the horse situation, but I suspect if there was a vet available, she just didn't want to pay a vet to euthanize the horse so she did it herself. Interestingly, I just saw an article about the shortage of veterinarians in South Dakota and Minnesota.
https://www.agweek.com/lifestyle/education/south-dakota-state-university-of-minnesota-program-aims-to-fill-the-gap-in-the-veterinarian-shortage

Again, this is no way is meant to dismiss that she is a shallow callous woman.

[Zeitghost]

16. No idea about gravel pits, they aren't common here.

Shooting animals who have reached the end and are not living comfortable lives or animals who attack and kill other animals/livestock is common on the farm and I've had to do both at our ranch.

I know many of my city dwelling friends don't understand the decision to handle it myself instead of calling a vet. But vets are expensive, and don't always have immediate availability in rural areas. There is also a responsibility I feel to my animals to do what is necessary to care for them properly from birth to death.

[LakeArenal]

31. This is a bit of a quibble. Not in support of Noem at all

We lived in an area called Sand County. Lots of landowners have gravel pits.

No dog (animal) needs to be shot in this day and age.

To me the most shocking is Noem is Proud of herself.

[sagetea]

32. I grew up

on a commune in Nv. It was a ranch style. we had chickens among other animals. I left then moved back when the commune split up. Then it was just a ranch, I had a dog (probably 18-20 months) she killed a chicken and I was told to put her in a cage with the dead chicken for 24 hrs. I hated doing it, but I did for only about 4 hrs. She was wonderful after that and decided to segregate them (Americanas separated from Bantys, etc.) They became her best friends. If that didn't work I don't know what I would have done, but I would have never killed her! GAWD, I never ever considered killing an animal for anything other than harming a child.

sage

[Traildogbob]

33. There was a

Time when you could not look at cable news without seeing Corey Lewindowki’s criminal mud on them. I have not seen him since he was committing adultery with Princess Jesus there in South Dakota. Should FBI look deeper into that gravel pit?
And don’t worry about out of wedlock sex and adultery by Princess Jesus, the farm animal whisperer, those two have absolute immunity from God, he lets ya do that when you’re famous.
And how many of her constituents, even have teeth, much less could afford expensive Texas Teeth.
And God also welcomes all the lying you can spew as one of his spokespeople.
Someone fact check her personal meeting with Kim from North Korea, also written into her book of Bull Shit. Proof read by Pecker.
I predict after Trump gets assigned as DICKTator,
All the Grocery Stores and Walmart Checkouts will no longer have Pecker Papers, they will ALL have TV scenes airing Fox 24/7. For our viewing pleasure.

[Bayard]

39. We have a small farm in KY

I moved back here from Calif, with 5 horses 10 years ago. All 5 of those are gone now, dying from natural causes. I'd had them under vet care for a long time, and it was heartbreaking. I'd had my gray mare for 30 years, and my gelding for 25. They were my retired competition horses. There's no way I could have shot them myself. When the vet puts an animal down, they give them a heavy sedative first, so the animal just goes peacefully to sleep. Then the vet administers the lethal dose that stops their heart.

We had to shoot one goat here that came down with botulism. Its a horrible way for an animal to die, and we also lost another goat, and two baby donkeys to it. It starts by paralyzing their hind ends, and then works its way up the body until it paralyzes the heart and lungs. The animal is helpless and struggles. At that time, we had not been able to find a goat vet in the area. This particular goat was already unconscious. Its one reason we keep a couple of guns on the place. We raise Nigerian Dwarf goats, and currently have 30. That includes 10 wethers (castrated males.) A lot of people would think they were worthless, but they're big friendly pets to us. Plus they will eat down weeds and brush.

I had not heard that Noem killed the goat because it stunk! Good gawd. We have two bucks here. They always stink to high heaven during breeding season because they pee on their faces and front legs. But the females find that highly attractive.

We've had to put several dogs down due to some unusual and perplexing diseases. It just killed us, and we've spent thousands of dollars trying to save them. I can't imagine shooting a dog. Although the coyotes that recently moved into the area are living dangerously. They wiped out all of our ducks, and a few barn cats.

Noem is an evil sociopath--much like her hero, trump.

[Model35mech]

45. My farm has a gravel pit turned farm dump. Drumlins sort of lend themselves to this.

The farm is located on the western side of a drumlin. Drumlins are essentially old piles of rock, gravel and sand organized into an elliptical hill when channels in the ice opened and washed the glacial till incorporated in the ice into a crevass. These hills accumulated in the direction of the melt of the glaciers front edge so drumlins occur in the few miles behind the limit of glacial expansion. The drumlin on my farm is about 1/2 mile north to south, and about 1000 feet wide, it rises about 50 ft above the wetland (in this part of Jefferson Co WI the landscape is rolling, alternating between parallel ridges of drumlins with wetlands between, all running in a mostly north-south direction (you can easily see these on topo-maps of the region).

At any rate. If you constructed farm buildings that required a foundation at least 4 feet deep (the frost-free depth) back in the day, you needed such stuff for the bulk of the concrete in the project. The old barn, the old house, a smokehouse, and a chicken coop turned machine shed all have 'stone' rubble foundations made using material from the side of the hill in what looks to be an attempt to dig out a walk-in walk-out basement for a dairy barn. On my place, the cut to remove the material never was fully filled, but it was used as a farm dump. Some of the boulders which would have needed to be split for use sit lined up in rows waiting for a stone mason. Now that dump just looks like a grass-lined gully in the woods. Based on things I've found (bottles, old wood burning stove parts, remains of shoes, broken cast-iron tools) it appears the dump was begun in the mid-to-late 1800s and used up into the 1960s.

Large glacial till mostly in the 10-30 pound range, but sometimes erratoc boulders in the 400 lb range still crop up in the fields and must be removed to protect plow points, and especially to protect the cutting bars of mowing equipment. Now those stones accumulate as wall-like heaps along field boundaries.