In case you missed it: an excerpt of President Obama's speech to the Business Roundtable

[ProSense]

Opening Remarks by the President to the Business Roundtable

<...>

So what we've said instead is let’s allow higher rates to go up for the top 2 percent -- that includes all of you, yes, but not in any way that’s going to affect your spending, your lifestyles, or the economy in any significant way; let’s make sure that 98 percent of Americans don't see a single dime in tax increases next year, 97 percent of small businesses don't see a single dime in tax increases next year -- and by doing that alone we raise almost a trillion dollars without any adverse effects on the economy.

Let’s combine that, then, with some additional spending cuts and some long-term entitlement reform that can get us to a number close to $4 trillion, which stabilizes our debt and our deficits relative to GDP for at least a decade, perhaps more.

That's our plan. That's what we've presented. The holdup right now is that Speaker Boehner took a position I think the day after the campaign that said we're willing to bring in revenue but we're not willing to increase rates. And I just explained to you why we don't think that works. We're not trying to -- we're not insisting on rates just out of spite or out of any kind of partisan bickering, but rather because we need to raise a certain amount of revenue.

Now, we've seen some movement over the last several days among some Republicans. I think there’s a recognition that maybe they can accept some rate increases as long as it’s combined with serious entitlement reform and additional spending cuts. And if we can get the leadership on the Republican side to take that framework, to acknowledge that reality, then the numbers actually aren't that far apart. Another way of putting this is we can probably solve this in about a week; it’s not that tough. But we need that conceptual breakthrough that says we need to do a balanced plan; that's what’s best for the economy; that's what the American people voted for; that's how we're going to get it done.

Let me make one last point and then I'll start taking questions. There had been reports -- and these are not necessarily confirmed, and maybe some of you have more insight than I do on this -- that perhaps the Republicans go ahead and let the middle-class tax cuts get extended, the upper-income tax cuts go up, otherwise we don't get a deal, and next year we come back and the thinking is Republicans will have more leverage because there will be another vote on the debt ceiling and we will try to extract more concessions with a stronger hand on the debt ceiling.

I have to just tell you that is a bad strategy for America. It is a bad strategy for our businesses. And it is not a game that I will play.

- more -

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/12/05/opening-remarks-president-business-roundtable

President Obama should stand by his proposal.

Obama offers GOP an ambitious, progressive debt-reduction plan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021905787

Are talks between Obama and Boehner already breaking down?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021956768

[Lionessa]

1. Unfortunately we all have memories, we've heard and read his strong speeches

before then watched him fold like a house of cards just a few days later. So your reminder doesn't help, if anything it just reminds us of the past cave ins and how they were set up.

[ProSense]

3. Yeah, but

"Unfortunately we all have memories, we've heard and read his strong speeches before then watched him fold like a house of cards just a few days later. So your reminder doesn't help, if anything it just reminds us of the past cave ins and how they were set up.

...we won, remember? The "strong speeches" helped.

Mitch McConnell demands Democrats negotiate with themselves
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021961718

[Lionessa]

5. We won in 2008 too, had even more seats in Legislature, so how does that help?

I have no choice but to wait and see if he stands firm this time, though there's already evidence he's wavering. But I will not get on your train of ignorance or imagination where we are to pretend we haven't been in the same or even better position before and watched him cave big time over and over.

[ProSense]

6. Well,

"We won in 2008 too, had even more seats in Legislature, so how does that help?"

...we got the expansion of Medicaid and a lot of other really good, excellent stuff.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021957271

[Lionessa]

10. Oh my, you and your list, that only addresses the "good" parts,

totally ignoring the onerous aspects and the list of things let go by the wayside as Obama caved, kept progressives out of the conversations, and all that other stuff that knowledgeable folks with memories are not ignorant about.

[ProSense]

11. "only addresses the 'good' parts"

Those are the best parts.

[Lionessa]

14. Not when compared to what could/should have been they aren't.

And seems you're not convincing anyone otherwise this time.

[ProSense]

16. Sure they are

"Not when compared to what could/should have been they aren't."

...when compared to nothing...kill the bill.

I'll take the largest expansion of Medicaid since its inception over nothing.

You?

[Lionessa]

19. Then the best parts aren't good enough.

And the expansion of Medicaid is optional so not every state's poor or needy are benefiting.

You've got a big fail in this OP.

[ProSense]

21. So is establishing

"And the expansion of Medicaid is optional so not every state's poor or needy are benefiting."

...the exchanges: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021937786

Sweet!

[grasswire]

2. David Ignatius reported Sunday...

.....that Obama personally thinks that "entitlements" need to be trimmed.

And so keeping Pelosi out of the negotiations eliminates the peoples' voice.

[ProSense]

4. Would be good

"David Ignatius reported Sunday...that Obama personally thinks that 'entitlements' need to be trimmed."

...to stop paying attention to the media's attempts to read Obama's mind. I think they're pushing the GOP line.

I mean, the President's proposal is already on the table, and speaking of Pelosi:

<...>

Following Boehner on the House floor, Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) responded to the request, noting that Obama already agreed to $1.6 trillion in spending cuts in the Budget Control Act negotiated last year.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/poll-public-will-blame-congressional-gop-for-fiscal

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. In the words of BabyGirl 1StrongBlackMan ...

I know, huh?

Why does anyone accept as godspell anything from the people who last month were insisting that the election was a toss-up ... a too close to call horserace?

And why do people look past what the man has said, in favor of what someone else thinks he thinks?

[Scootaloo]

27. Because some people on DU just hate Obama?

It's plain as day, I guess.

[Lionessa]

7. He's keeping Pelosi out of the talks? I didn't know that.

I'll go looking, but if you have a link, I'd like to see that. If this is true then I see this as exactly the same shit that started happening in 2009. Second term no different, I regretfully guess.

[grasswire]

8. Boehner and Obama are mano a mano

Reid and Pelosi are shut out.

[ProSense]

13. The President also meets individually with Pelosi and Reid.

Obama met in November with Boehner, as well as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. The president spoke by telephone with Reid and in person with Pelosi on Friday. The president is traveling to Redford, Mich., on Monday to promote his agenda in a speech to workers at an engine factory; auto workers helped Obama win Michigan in last month's election

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/09/obama-john-boehner-fiscal-cliff_n_2268071.html.

[Lionessa]

15. Speaking with is not the same as being in on the negotiations,

just not your day today. You can't seem to pull the wool over anyone's eyes today at all, gosh, bless your heart.

[ProSense]

17. He spoke with Boehner. He spoke with Pelosi.

Things are looking good.

Boehner's latest floor rant calls into question progress in negotiations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021961929

[Lionessa]

20. If it was anyone but you I'd say it's unbelievable the twists and turns you're

contorting you're doing to try to convince anyone of the validity of your "faith," for there's no reality to support your POV.

[ProSense]

23. Here

"there's no reality to support your POV."

...reality: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021961718

Republicans are screwed, but don't worry they're have trouble coming to grips with that reality too.

[forestpath]

12. "additional spending cuts and some long-term entitlement reform" - NO THANKS.

[ProSense]

18. Pelosi: "Democrats are ready to discuss even more savings..."

Make no mistake: Democrats are ready to discuss even more savings that extend the life of Medicare without hurting beneficiaries. We should reduce health expenditures and build on our work in the Affordable Care Act to slow the growth of health costs. We should be strengthening Medicare, not undermining it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021961855

It can be done.

[forestpath]

22. Sure, it CAN be done. But I haven't heard PRESIDENT OBAMA unequivocally say so.

[ProSense]

24. Pelosi shares

the President's position.

WEEKLY ADDRESS: Congress Must Extend the Middle Class Tax Cuts

Hello, everybody. Over the last few weeks, there’s been a lot of talk about deadlines we’re facing on jobs and taxes and investments. But with so much noise and so many opinions flying around, it can be easy to lose sight of what this debate is really about. It’s not about which political party comes out on top, or who wins or loses in Washington. It’s about making smart decisions that will have a real impact on your lives and the lives of Americans all across the country.

Right now, middle-class tax cuts are set to expire at the end of the year. Time is running out. And there are two things that can happen.

First, if Congress does nothing, every family in America will see their income taxes automatically go up on January 1st. A typical middle-class family of four would get a $2,200 tax hike. That would be bad for families, it would be bad for businesses, and it would drag down our entire economy.

Now, Congress can avoid all this by passing a law that prevents a tax hike on the first $250,000 of everybody’s income. That means 98 percent of Americans and 97 percent of small businesses wouldn’t see their income taxes go up by a single dime. Even the wealthiest Americans would get a tax cut on the first $250,000 of their income. And families everywhere would enjoy some peace of mind.

The Senate has already done their part. Now we’re just waiting for Republicans in the House to do the same thing. But so far, they’ve put forward an unbalanced plan that actually lowers rates for the wealthiest Americans. If we want to protect the middle class, then the math just doesn’t work.

We can and should do more than just extend middle class tax cuts. I stand ready to work with Republicans on a plan that spurs economic growth, creates jobs and reduces our deficit – a plan that gives both sides some of what they want. I’m willing to find ways to bring down the cost of health care without hurting seniors and other Americans who depend on it. And I’m willing to make more entitlement spending cuts on top of the $1 trillion dollars in cuts I signed into law last year.

But if we’re serious about reducing our deficit while still investing in things like education and research that are important to growing our economy – and if we’re serious about protecting middle-class families – then we’re also going to have to ask the wealthiest Americans to pay higher tax rates. That’s one principle I won’t compromise on

After all, this was a central question in the election. A clear majority of Americans – Democrats, Republicans and Independents – agreed with a balanced approach that asks something from everyone, but a little more from those who can most afford it. It’s the only way to put our economy on a sustainable path without asking even more from the middle class. And it’s the only kind of plan I’m willing to sign.

Everyone agrees we need to bring down our deficit and strengthen our economy for the long-term. The question is whether we can do it in a responsible way that allows us to keep investing in the things that have always made America strong. I’m convinced we can. And if both sides are willing to compromise, I believe we can give businesses and families a sense of security going into the New Year.

Thanks, and have a great weekend.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/12/08/weekly-address-congress-must-extend-middle-class-tax-cuts

<...>

Following Boehner on the House floor, Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) responded to the request, noting that Obama already agreed to $1.6 trillion in spending cuts in the Budget Control Act negotiated last year.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/poll-public-will-blame-congressional-gop-for-fiscal

[forestpath]

25. The more I read those words, the more I see a disconnect between

"higher tax rates" and "a little bit more from those who can most afford it."

I mean, it would have have to be more than a little bit more - because I find it quite strange that the 1 percent are being reassured about being asked for "little bit" more on top of their "something" - but no such reassurance to the rest of us. We are asked for the same "something" as the rich, and then the rich are asked for a "little bit more."

If they only have to cough up a "little bit more" on top of their "something," when they have such an obscenely larger amount of money than we do - just what is this "something" that President Obama is talking about, and how can it possibly not very negatively affect those who can least afford it?

And why can't President Obama provide the same reassurance regarding his plans for Medicare and Social Security as he has regarding his "little bit" for the rich?

Again, I have not seen it. I appreciate your providing the quotes, but they do not allay my concerns.

[ProSense]

28. What are you talking about?

"And why can't President Obama provide the same reassurance regarding his plans for Medicare and Social Security as he has regarding his 'little bit' for the rich? "

The President's plan is out there, it includes $400 billion in Medicare savings. It does not include Social Security, which is not part of the negotiation (except in Republicans' fantasy). The additional Medicare savings can be achieved, as the President and Pelosi have said, by bringing down health care costs.

[forestpath]

29. If President Obama is serious about his "plan," he or his spokespeople would be pushing

back hard on the constant "slashing entitlements" drumbeating by the Republicans.

But he's not. And they're not, except for some double talking and weasel words from the ones the President actually listens to. Says it all to me.

YMMV.

[ProSense]

30. In case you

"If President Obama is serious about his 'plan,' he or his spokespeople would be pushing back hard on the constant 'slashing entitlements"' drumbeating by the Republicans."

...didn't notice (oops, here's the link: Boehner's latest floor rant calls into question progress in negotiations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021961929)

To which White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer responded with a tweet: "The irony of this is that the White House offer had very specific cuts, the GOP counteroffer had almost none."

Boehner could be trying his hand at upping the pressure on the president, after the White House unleashed its most powerful tool by asking supporters to flood Republican phone lines. Judging by the White House response, that didn't work.

Are talks between Obama and Boehner already breaking down?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021956768

White House shoots down House Republican proposal on fiscal cliff
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021922397

Beyond that, your point seems to be that the WH needs to play the Republicans game.

[cbrer]

26. "as long as it’s combined with serious entitlement reform"

This language makes me very nervous in terms of where this is headed.

Not one word about DOD cuts, or ending the foreign policy fiascos that have become black holes of spending. $8.7 billion just lost not even counting the pork spending they can account for.

No move towards single payer health care, drug negotiations, or corporate tax hideaways.

[Cha]

31. Thank you, Pro Sense, for posting this..President Obama is doing

an admirable job negotiating with Plutocratic Idiots. The FACTS of President Obama's First Term and all the GOOD he's Done Speak for themselves.