Iditarod Musher Dramatically Revives Fallen Dog

[geardaddy]

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/animal-house/201203/iditarod-musher-dramatically-revives-fallen-dog

Commitment and attachment to one's dog can reach admirable levels, but a moment this week in the Iditarod showed just how far one owner would go to keep his prized pup alive.

Scott Janssen (seen at right with his sled team at the start of the race) was forced to make a decision when his dog collapsed while they were making their way down the Dalzell Gorge in Alaska. Marshall, Janssen's 9-year-old husky, suddenly fell in a heap in the midst of pulling hard at Janssen's sled.

"Boom! Laid right down. It was like a guy my age having a heart attack," Janssen told the Anchorage Daily News. Janssen is an Anchorage funeral home owner, who has dubbed himself "The Mushing Mortician."

When he rushed to Marshall's side, the outlook wasn't good.

"I know what death looks like, and he was gone. Nobody home," Janssen, an Iditarod sophomore (he finished 42 out of 47 last year), said.

For a musher devoted to his dogs, it was a heart-wrenching moment at the worst possible time. The Iditarod is a grind, forged by the will of the musher and his dogs, and the bond they share.

"I was sobbing," he said. He began mouth-to-snout CPR -- compressing the husky's chest and doing his best to breathe life into him. "I really love that dog."

More at link.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. It's not whether you win or lose...

It's how you play the game.

I don't remember who said this, but it's sure as hell true here.

He had his priorities right.

And his dog is alive.

[geardaddy]

2. Agreed.

He make the right choice IMO.

How's the knee?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. The knee is doing well, and thanks for asking!

[Rex]

28. Good to hear that.

[nykym]

4. Grantland Rice sportswritter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grantland_Rice

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Ah, thank you!

[RebelOne]

5. I do not approve of the Iditarod.

To me, it is a form of animal abuse, but I'm glad the dog was OK and hope Janssen retires him.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. Ditto.

[joeybee12]

8. It is abuse, and this clearly shows it...

And to make it seem like this is heroic wehn any decent person would be concerned with the animal's welfare first is idiotic.

[jsmirman]

9. Agreed - I think we've come to the point with that event

where the cruelty surrounding it is pretty hard to ignore.

And like joeybee (I think this is a fair accusation), I'm a sports fanatic - and I mean, like off the charts.

[Drahthaardogs]

13. Have you ever even seen a real Alaskan husky?

Not that crap AKC registers, but been to an Iditarod, been around mushers, the dogs? A real, honest to God, Alaskan huksy? I have. I lived right near the ceremonial start of it. These dogs would sooner die than not run. It is all they love. Furthermore, recent races have shown that the more they run, the better they get, as the big mushers like Martin Busher, Rick Swanson, and Jeff King were now running the Yukon and then the Iditarod almost back to back. Alaskan huskies are a freaking wonder of the world. Everything we "thought" to be true has changed in the last five years.

[roguevalley]

22. no one outside who hates it gets ir or ever saw it. They don't know about the dogs and

how they are such awesome athletes. They don't even know that these dogs are mutts, a blend of many types that are distrinctly alaskan.

[VenusRising]

24. I had a Malamute that would sooner die than not run.

We would take her out on a levy next to the Mississippi River, and she would run back and forth out there for an hour, and longer if we let her. She would turn herself completely inside out if you even mentioned the word "run". She knew what it was, and she wanted to do it!

It's the breed type. It's what they love and were born to do. They are wonderful animals.

[Blue_In_AK]

26. Thank you, Drahthaardogs.

I've been following the Iditarod since first moving to Alaska in 1975, and you are absolutely correct. The dogs are phenomenal, and they are bred for this. They're as happy at the finish line as they are at the beginning of the race. We'll be going out to Nome Sunday for the this year's finish, the fourth time in four years. It's a wonderful event that unifies Alaska for these two weeks and demonstrates over and over again how much these animals are loved and cared for.

I guess we can't expect Outsiders to really understand.

[jsmirman]

27. Have I ever seen it live? No. Have I followed it since Susan Butcher started dominating?

Yes. I'm a sports junkie. I used to be a kind of sportswriter (I didn't cover things for a daily, but, instead, for a glossy, where most of what I wrote about was sports).

I stopped following it when I became disgusted by dog deaths, what did not seem to be sufficient monitoring, and most particularly, the occasionally horrific events surrounding the breeding, raising, and training of dogs to be pack members.

There are a lot of the same problems here that we see in Horse Racing. I had a lifetime of following that "sport" until the day Eight Belles had to be destroyed and I realized I couldn't participate anymore.

I understand that there have been adaptations to the way they test for drugs and the way they attempt to mandate veterinary care, but just like in horse racing, there are many of us who are not left with the feeling that the protections in place to ensure the health of the dogs - from birth and raising, to the starting line, and then through the race - are sufficient.

Call us outsiders, point to the fact that there have been a lot of customs a very different man used to be able to get swept up in, like, say, barbecue in Alabama, but looking at it without an inherent conviction that "this is a good thing" may give us a different perspective.

http://www.adn.com/2009/03/20/731154/number-of-dog-deaths-on-iditarod.html

http://www.helpsleddogs.org/faq.htm

http://www.cesarsway.com/news/dognews/Tragic-Murder-of-Dogs-in-Canada

The lack of regulation of the breeding/raising/training process has ultimately left me cold. The Canada incident, of course, happened in Canada, but it sparked a debate about sled dog treatment that moved to the pages of publications like SI.

For my part, I don't understand why the race has to be as long as it is, I think that like any event (see: horse racing), where money is involved, it is very hard to keep up with all aspects of what precisely has happened to/been done to a voiceless participant out of whom peak performance is sought, and I don't believe the breeding/raising/training process has sufficient regulation to prevent cruelty - and I don't know that sufficient regulation is realistically possible. I know that in watching it (from afar) since the early/mid 1980's, it has become a bigger business proposition, and I believe that when "athletics" involve both voiceless participants and hefty financial stakes, bad things follow.

The "theory" of the event is intriguing. My desire to follow it as I learned more about it than just knowing who triumphantly "mushed" across the finish line, who got lost along the way, what underdog was surprisingly still in the hunt (although inevitably left behind by the better financed/more famous by the last leg) and began to understand the gaps in monitoring over what happened to these dogs before they reached the starting line - it has all killed my interest in the event.

The issues present in cycling provide a comparison point - the historic race events we can all get caught up in are fascinating, evocative, and intriguing, sports-wise, in their diversity of challenges - but they have become completely soiled and at least there the participants are entirely willing participants.

I'm just not buying - anymore - that the Iditarod is a necessary, humane, cruelty-free proposition.

[Blue_In_AK]

30. Well, you don't have to buy it.

Meanwhile, we'll enjoy the race up here.

Peace.

[Drahthaardogs]

34. You are cheechako

The dogs are not abused, they are adored by the fans and the mushers. Sometimes dogs die during the race. Sometimes high school kids drop dead during basketball games. Shit happens. This is not horse racing. The purse is a fucking pickup truck for the love of God. It is not about the money, it is about Alaska and the dogs.

[jsmirman]

37. Oh, I see you've used your charming insult twice

yes, there are no sponsorships involved... right.... although I do see that you had to cut back in 2010...

High school kids drop dead during basketball games - yeah, who's cheechako?

I was one of those players - on a top ten team in the greatest city of earth for Basketball!!!! (yeah, there's some local jingoism! Screw you and your Trajan Langdon nyah nyah)

I determined how hard I could go - no one else. I was also a football player, and there was a day where I felt any more contact of any kind was going to put me in some serious physical distress - so I set up a little side agreement with the guy I was drilling with - and no one gave me a hard time because day in day out I was down for whatever - but still my choice...

Yay, hatred of outsiders!!!

[Drahthaardogs]

65. Yeah John Baker is sponsored.

That is why he has to take his sled team out on the ice to hunt seal over in Kotzebue. No one gets rich running these races. It is about the dogs not the money. Even Jeff King's place is pretty meh. They make enough money to keep doing their thing.

Cheechako is not an insult, it is just what you are, an outsider, one who knows nothing of Alaska. Have you navigated the Yukon? Ever eaten muktuk. Have you ever lived a subsistence lifestyle? Ever spent a month or so in the bush? Put ooligan oil on your seal meat? Had a nice leg of lynx cooked over red hot coals or warmed frozen hands on a wolverine ruff?

It is a whole different way of life, and you you don't understand. Period! You don't even care to TRY to learn that which you do NOT understand. Nope. You just keep spewing your ridiculousness. I don't hate outsiders, just hate it when outsiders spew nonsense to those who have actually walked the walk. Who am I going to believe, jsmirman or my own lyin eyes?

[KamaAina]

95. If you really want to bash Alaskan basketball

Trajan Langdon is small potatoes compared to a certain girls' hoops star up there whose nickname was "Sarah Barracuda".

[jsmirman]

97. Hey, I saw Shannon Bobbitt (UT Nat'l Champion)

back when she was a kid known as "Something Special," and was making fools out of men at the Rucker.

Anyone who wanted to could come down out of the crowd to try to steal the ball from her. I wasn't nearly that stupid.

Sarah Barracuda wasn't shit compared to Shannon Bobbitt, I can tell you that...

[joeybee12]

42. Bull-phucking-shit...

To compare a kid who drops dead in sports from some fluke genetic problem to dogs that died because they are pushed BEYOND what they are capabel of is idiocy. Four died last year...this is abuse...

[Blue_In_AK]

61. Again, four did not die last year,

nor did four die the year before. There have been NO dog deaths the past two years.

[jsmirman]

29. And the whole bred to do this thing - ever been around an Iberian bull?

I have - and I would wager quite a bit of scratch that I've been around them in a way that no one in this thread can say that they have - and I am not talking pure idiocy like "The Running of the Bulls" or the like.

Those animals? Yeah, they love to fucking kill. It's true. They're hardly animals, anymore. They are essentially bred killing machines. But they sure as hell live for the chance to kill anything around them, and they eventually each die for it.

I'd never met an animal that I could find no point of relation to or emotional "you and me" connection to until I met Iberian bulls.*

It doesn't make the overall practice any less problematic.


* (As a point of reference, I've had deers who allowed me to track them (just me and my curiosity, no weapons, or desire to do any sort of harm whatsoever) for miles, ultimately allowing me to stand within feet of them for amazing stretches of time. The Iberian bull is the fucking scariest, most-compassion free creature I have ever encountered at close range)

[Drahthaardogs]

35. You are not even cheechako.

You are just clueless. Comparing a fighting bull to an Alaska husky? Please.

[jsmirman]

36. Ok, whatever

not like you completely miss the point about what an animal can be "bred to do..."

Oh, put upon Alaska.

And btw, my freshman year roommate and best friend for that entire pivotal year of my life was from Anchorage. But I'm cheechako...

It's too freaking cold for me where you live, though, no doubt.

I object to the Iditarod. Way to make it about a broader us vs. them, thing, though, as though it means I hate all Alaska...

[joeybee12]

43. Clueless pot calling the kettle clueless

It is abuse.

[Drahthaardogs]

62. Yes, I am clueless.

However, I have actually SEEN the race, I know four people personally who HAVE RUN the race. I have put my hands on dogs that ran the Iditarod and played with puppies that will run the race or sledjourn. Have you?

[ananda]

38. Ermm...

... this is how slavery was presented and justified in the ante-bellum South.

The slaves just love their masters. The plantation is their home, a kind of
paradise for them.... and so on.

Also, for many abused and/or enslaved people (and pets), there is something
called the Stockholm Syndrome where it appears as though they love and
need their abusers and would do anything for them.

[Drahthaardogs]

78. Oh for God's sake,

You are not really equating dog sledding with slavery are you? Alaskan huskies with African people stolen in the middle of the night? Really?

[janx]

81. . . .

[joeybee12]

41. Four animals that we know of died in last year's Itiod-atrod...

Yeah, that's not abuse...there's one thing to have them run...it's one thing to have them run beyond their capabilities...abuse is abuse.

[hobbit709]

47. Prove your claim.

[joeybee12]

53. Prove me wrong...

It's well-documented that animals die during this...bury your head in the sand if you so desire.

[hobbit709]

55. Prove yourself right.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2011/03/iditarod-no-sled-dog-deaths.html

[jsmirman]

57. There are so many impossibly

fucked up things contained in that one short article, it is headspinning.

I'm going to let others point out the crazy that is rampant in what I just read, but I'll come back later, if necessary.

I'm trying not to be purely confrontational in this thread, but that this is an article one would cite in favor of the event is just, wow.

[Drahthaardogs]

80. Yes, because everyone knows the LA Time is just a local rag.

.

[jsmirman]

84. And - far wide of the point... once again

that you would cite an article where your selling point is: "Wow! Look! Two Years in a Row With No Dog Deaths!" says quite a lot.

THAT is the point.

And this idea that people put forward that a certain number of dogs die every day or whatever - this is utterly misleading. To be statistically useful, the comparison would have to be animals in the prime years of their lives, showing no signs of illness or disease or any health problems. THAT would be an accurate comparison.

Perhaps an interesting comparison would be marathons or triathlons in comparison to the race, but once again, that would be inaccurate, as the participants are humans who have chosen to be there.

Again, you are forcing this to be as utterly confrontational as this thread has become.

My inclination is that it is a race that needed some serious reforming and may be getting better. I'm not opposed to it "just because" and could see it being a tradition I could accept if it were run in a more limited fashion and if the safety measures/drug screening/vet checks were more effective.

Get back to me when you've had, I don't know, say TEN years with no deaths. That you point with pride to two whole years with no deaths is straight up f'd up.

[Drahthaardogs]

85. I didn't cite anything.

I just questioned your own journalistic qualifications that you use to discredit the LA Times (that someone else cited). Much like I question your Alaskan experiences, specifically your intimate knowledge of Alaska. Ah, MA NO! you had a roommate who lived in Anchorage once. Yeah, my roommate lived in Rome. My Italian still sucks.

[jsmirman]

86. Whaaa???

How do you still not understand that discrediting the LA Times (which, just so you know, has fallen on terribly hard times and had to totally junk their traditional model) was not on today's program?

That could have appeared in the Bible and it would still have been an embarrassing justification.

I also *do* have journalistic "qualifications," but they are equally irrelevant to any point made in that post.

I never claimed I had intimate knowledge of Alaska - only that I'm not utterly ignorant of it. This was my best friend during my freshman year of college. We drank together, stayed up nights talking together, wrestled together - he was a champion wrestler back at West and was a little surprised by how strong this northeasterner turned out to be - and we went on vacations together. We talked plenty about his home and about life in Alaska. So I know *something* about Alaska. I also know more than most Alaskans do about why you couldn't report proper election results in the 2004 election, but that is another story for another time. My knowledge is surely limited. And as I said, it's too freaking cold, and I don't have much to desire for anything other than a compact vacation visit.

Again, still not the point.

[janx]

87. If you have time for a compact vacation visit,

then I suggest you get to the Iditarod. Get to know the dogs and the people involved. Get behind the scenes if you can. (But bundle up. It's cold up there!)

[jsmirman]

89. I'm open to

learning more about it, I suspect for one, I just wish the damn thing were shorter.

My honest suspicion? There have been some real problems in the race *in the past* and I hope they are moving toward cleaning those up. From what I've read, it seems like there were things that just were "accepted," that honestly, if it takes the rest of us pissing in your cheerios a little to put more protections in place, I'm not going to feel bad about that. If you look at horse racing, the more you know, the more you just don't see a positive way forward for that "sport." That's not saying that's the rule - but the prospect for breeding for purposes other than health and for chemical shenanigans is present when the "racers" are not human and can't say anything about what has been done to them to get them ready to race.

My other suspicion is that things changed with the Iditarod as it got more renown outside of Alaska, as TV got involved, and as it became a bigger deal with mushers whose names became known throughout the Continental United States for their success. Things change when things get bigger. The same difficulty with change can happen with an event as seemingly different as the Rucker basketball tournament played on Harlem's blacktops.

What is your take on the tragedy at Whistler? That situation seemed to present a breeding and maintaining situation that existed outside of sufficient oversight, leading to horrifying results. That story made me physically ill, as in, literally.

[janx]

91. What happened at Whistler was horrifying, but it has nothing to do with

the Iditarod.

[jsmirman]

93. Well, please see post #90 below

as I said, I *do* have a great familiarity with how breeding operations, by their very nature and goals, are *more likely than not* to involve elements of heartbreaking cruelty. This does not mean that this is a rule - just that it is surprising when there is ever an exception.

Do the bunch of you in this thread just straight out deny all reports of Iditarod-related cruelty?

[Drahthaardogs]

99. NO, not at all

It happens. It gets reported. Mushers get punished.

http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/18/iditarod-musher-suspended-for-hitting-dog/

Mr. Brooks was suspended two years for his infraction, and if another, occurs, he is done for life.

However, what is more intriguing, is why would Mr. Stevens NOT report this? I mean, the mushers wear numbers on their front and back. If Mr. Stevens truly loved dogs, why would he stand idly by and not even take a PICTURE???????

Hmmmmmm........

I suspect Mr. Stevens from Australia has an agenda. I bet he "liberates" minks out of their cages on moonless nights too. Otherwise, he is a huge douchebag because I train dogs as a part time living, and if I saw someone bloodying up a dog, I would have intervened. Why did Mr. Stevens not do something? At least take a fucking picture? or better yet, a short video on his cell phone?

I also like the photo of the chained dogs. All mushers chain their dogs. Of course, they are out running or swimming for hours upon hours a day. It is not like they are chained to a pole and rot there until March rolls around and then they unchain them and let them run.

As a pro trainer, let me tell you something. It can be an e-collar, a choke chain, or even a flat leash. In the hands of an idiot, it is a weapon. In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, it is a tool. An idiot is an idiot.

Mr. Stevens did not see shit. I bet he is not even a real person writing a "letter to the editor".

[jsmirman]

101. There is no "Mr" Stevens (it's a female) - Honestly

I think it was a female tourist from Australia in a foreign land and she was scared shitless and didn't say anything.

I had the same reaction - I can assure you that if I see animal cruelty, I don't just write a letter. But I don't know *Jane* Stevens, Australians are bold, but maybe more polite than this aggressive New Yorker, and frankly, I saw (and dealt with) some pretty rough shit growing up in New York in the 80's so I don't scare easily.

I mean, in response to your "have you" post - it's like, "have you ever been strangled twenty feet away from your home, but escaped when your detachable hood came off," "have you ever run for your life from a crew of knife wielding thugs in alphabet city," "have you ever been jumped from behind and punched in the face multiple times (never got me down, Ray) while two hundred plus people stand around and watch," "did you spend every weekend night of high school being chased/playing cat and mouse with local gangs" and "did you ever beat the crap out of a fireman and his antisemitic buddy in a bodega, with the help of a brave stranger" - ah, only then will you understand New York...

I don't think it's quite fair to just say, "no real Jane Stevens exists." It looks as though the Whitehorse Star thought this was real enough to run the letter. And back to Ms. Stevens, it's not that implausible that she would be too scared to do anything.

I flat out don't believe in short chain chaining of dogs, but that's another conversation.

Frankly, the part that disturbs me the most is that it is hard for me to imagine that there is not culling and that there are not abuses when the dogs don't do what the goal is to get them to do. And I will never be okay with that.

[Drahthaardogs]

111. No, I grew up on a real working ranch

and rode like any man from the time I was six years old. I branded calves, broke horses, and did all of that stuff. We ran over 500 mother cows. We also had WORKING animals. WORKING horses, WORKING cow dogs, etc.

The one thing about being on a ranch is you get to be an expert in bullshit. You know it when you say it. You know it when you smell it, and you sure as hell know it when Mr. or Mrs. Stevens tries to feed it to you.


Have you ever been through Whitehorse?

I imagine letters to the editor are pretty few and far between. IT is hard to take this seriously when you admit the author lied about their identity.

[jsmirman]

121. You put something in your head that has not been said

IT is hard to take this seriously when you admit the author lied about their identity.

*You* made the assumption the LTTE writer was a man, which was strange, because she gave her name as Jane.

I don't know what to tell you...

Your point about Whitehorse is interesting, but hardly conclusive.

But listen, you're going to believe what you're going to believe. Her story is not patently crazy as even the Alaskans in this thread agree there were two documented instances of cruelty in 2008, but it may be made up. It sure seems like people are going to want to believe what they are going to want to believe.

[Drahthaardogs]

125. I was the one who posted the abuse link in 2008 by Brooks

However, Mr. or Mrs. Stephens does not exist, and if she does, She is the worst kind of hypocrite out there. It takes a special piece of crap to feel passionately about something, and then watch the worst case scenario happen right before your eyes and not say a word.

The other bullshit part of the story is, Why would she write a letter to the Editor to a CANADIAN newspaper for an ALASKAN situation? WTF are the Canadians going to do about it?

It is pure bullshit, gender be damned. Propaganda to stir the masses.

[jsmirman]

126. The Huff Po article *I* posted covered three instances of abuse

one, related to Brooks, and two, in 2008, related to kennels:

Musher Ramy Brooks was penalized after the 2007 race for striking his dogs, for example, while two other Iditarod mushers -- John T. Hessert and Doug Bartko -- were found guilty in 2008 of animal mistreatment at their kennels.

Either you didn't see that or didn't read the linked Huff Po article?

[jsmirman]

127. And again, as to Stevens, you're going to believe

what you want to believe. You're clearly invested in believing she's not real - but apparently, she claims to have been a handler for one of the top ten mushers:

http://www.animaladvocates.com/watchdog.pl?md=read;id=14097

There appears to be - at least a claim - of a full record of complaints filed, so one could conceivably follow up to confirm her "realness"/her being a figment of the imagination.

But like I said, we know what you are invested in believing - do you want me to attempt to track down her complaints? I probably can, although it would take some time.

My greater suspicion is that we have taken this overall conversation about as far as it is going to go, and that although what I suggest above is possible, going much further on this is probably pointless.

[janx]

117. I am beginning to understand now.

jsmirman, you are in NYC? If you are, I can assure you that NYC dog culture and Alaska dog culture are worlds apart.

[jsmirman]

123. Well, *we* are world's apart

and I don't expect everything to be similar. As I said, I'd like to see a shorter race, better precautions, and I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to string together a few years where none of the dogs die. And I understand the concept of "working dogs" - my sister has a "working dog" - but the problem we're going to have with the Iditarod is that it just doesn't strike us as work. It's hard to see what functional thing is being accomplished. Maybe there's something functional I'm missing here. I certainly hope that there isn't an attitude that the race isn't "tough enough" if a few dogs don't die every now and then. I'm not saying it's like that, I just hope it's not. What would be the worst thing about a shorter race and more checkpoints if it meant less dogs dying?

You Alaskans are funny, though - it's a shame you don't live next door to Minnesotans, who come from a place I have spent a bunch of time. Something about living in inhospitable climes, I mean, if you guys could work some twisters into your daily privation, I swear it would be like God's only children on earth would hail from your two climes, lol. Like I told you, I grew up in a pretty tough place, too. Like I said in another thread, though, it's not like all New Yorkers would faint at the site of a blade of grass. I've actually been around most of the country, with regard to the continental part, and I don't get an allergic reaction in the absence of concrete.

As I mentioned, I learned a thing or two about Alaska from my roommate, who told me stories of bears walking through the middle of town and the shit you'd better bring when you go driving anywhere in Alaska. I used to like being cold, but the thrill in that left me when I moved out of my teens, so, as I noted, I think a short vacation is the most that's in the cards. Still, I would like to see Alaska. It seems like quite a place, just nowhere I would want to live.

[janx]

113. I think Brooks is done for life anyway, regardless of the official rules.

He has been ostracized, with good reason.

[Drahthaardogs]

115. I have been gone for about five years, so I do not follow it as closely as I did.

I was surprised to see King in the running I thought he was ready to retire three years ago. My favorite is John Baker though. He is a big man with big dogs for tough trail conditions. I was excited last year when he won.

[janx]

118. King and his dogs will probably never be out of the running--

I have noticed that mushers keep thinking that they have to "retire," but they just can't for so many years. The whole thing is just too dear for them and for their dogs.


John Baker--so wonderful for that native win! It was great for his team, and it was wonderful for Alaska.

[Drahthaardogs]

88. Then show some respect for Alaskans

Sorry,

Alaskans do a lot of things that New Yorkers, Californians, and Texans will not understand. I would not even post half of it because it would create a shit storm of epic proportions.

You have EVERY right to NOT like the Iditarod. You have every right to say that you believe it is cruel and constitutes abuse. However, you do NOT have the right to say that mushers purposely abuse the dogs, shoot them up like racehorses, and deny them veterinary care. THAT is PURE BULLSHIT based solely on what you imagine the race to be like. There are several posters here who have seen the race firsthand who are telling you that you are wrong.

Keep your belief system but temper the bullshit please.

[Blue_In_AK]

63. Why do you keep spreading this lie?

There were NO dog deaths last year or the year before. These dogs get far more thorough veterinarian care than almost any other dogs I can think of, and they are adored by their owners.

[hobbit709]

69. Their mind is made up, don't confuse it with FACTS.

[Drahthaardogs]

79. List the musher,

List his number, list the dog, the date of death, and the necropsy findings or please shut it off.

[janx]

82. You beat me to it. n/t

[janx]

114. I think Lance started that trend--

Quest and then Iditarod back-to-back. Anderson did it for awhile, but not this year. His theory now is that although the Quest may have strengthened them physically, it seemed to dull them mentally.

But these crazy mushers are always changing their theories.

[obamanut2012]

12. +1

[xchrom]

10. I've done a 180 on that race & I no longer think it's a good thing for the dogs.

Hopefully that dog - thank goodness he's alive - changes that man and he dogs can just enjoy each other.

[geardaddy]

11. I've come around to the thinking that the race is bad for dogs.

I hope you're right about the dog changing the man.

[HopeHoops]

14. For some reason this was alerted on. I have no idea where else it would belong.

Perhaps The Lounge, but I'm a bit confused by the alert. That's a guy who really loves his dogs. They work hard to make that run and this one obviously put everything into his job and got something back in return - his life.

[jsmirman]

15. While I don't like the event he chooses to dedicate his life to

I wonder if we're getting a little out of hand with the locks in GD.

The "about" section still mentions "Current Events."

If people want to wash out all the distracting and inefficient duplicate threads, that would be great, but please leave threads like this alone.

I want to read about Michael McGuire's posts about scottish wildcats, thank you, and I don't want to have to go anywhere else to do so.

[HopeHoops]

18. Yeah, that's why I wouldn't have locked it even if I didn't like it. Good story though.

[jsmirman]

19. I get

a little confused as to where we're supposed to talk about certain things - I'm not sure if discussions about the SOP are ok in GD (I think(?) it varies from forum to forum) - but I figured if a host was addressing it, it might be okay to do so!

[HopeHoops]

32. Generally H&M is the place to talk about SOP issues.

[jsmirman]

33. Thanks

there was a group where it seemed like many posited that it might be positive for those issues to be hashed out in the group itself, but I'm not looking to open up that business here, lol...

[Arugula Latte]

16. Gee, maybe being committed to your dog means not making it run 1,000 miles.

That stupid race is CRUEL.

[jsmirman]

17. +1

thank you for giving a damn

[RebelOne]

20. Right on!!!! My words echoed. n/t

[roguevalley]

21. you never saw it or are around these dogs. I can't tell you how different they are than ordinary

working dogs. They live to run. They are hell to harness together because you have to have someone standing with each pair holding it back because it leaps and leaps until they get let go. These dogs are cared for wonderfully. They are loved. They are respected. Go see the race first. This is not about mistreating dogs. These dogs are the greatest athletes in the world.

[Blue_In_AK]

25. Same ol', same ol', huh, Rogue...

I don't even bother arguing with people anymore.

Just look at these poor, unhappy dogs ....

[/IMG]



We've been to the finish in Nome three times (and going out again on Sunday), and I can assure everyone that these dogs want to keep on going even after covering all this distance. But people here can believe it or not -- we know the truth.

[joeybee12]

44. Show a picture of the 4 that died last year and then we'll

talk...your point is they love to run...fine...they don't love running to complete exhaustion and premature death...abuse is abuse.

[hobbit709]

51. What 4 that died last year? Quit posting wild claims without evidence.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2011/03/iditarod-no-sled-dog-deaths.html

[joeybee12]

54. BS...

Nice try, though. Just some quotes from some nitwit who participates in this is hardly proof.

[hobbit709]

56. Obviously your mind is made up and can't be bothered with facts

[Blue_In_AK]

59. You are incorrect.

There have been no dog deaths the past two years. We're talking over 1,000 dogs per race. My guess is that in any average population of 1,000 dogs, you would probably have a death now and then.

[Blue_In_AK]

66. I can't show a picture of the four that died last year,

because four didn't die last year. Your mind is made up, as is mine, so there's no point in us discussing this any further. I will say, though, that I have been at the finish of this race for the past three years and the dogs are not completely exhausted when they arrive in Nome. They are happy and ready to run some more. The dogs are carefully gone over by experenced vets at every checkpoint and at the first sign of ANY distress, they are dropped from the race. These animals are probably far better cared for than your average pet, and despite what you're saying they love what they do.

[joeybee12]

70. Tell me how many died...an exactnnumber,...you can't

Because the policy is to not notify about deaths unless asked...what about the dogs that die in training...waht about the dogs that die after...those are never reported...50% of the dogs never finish the race...THAT is all you need to know about this filthy filthy6 "tradition"

[hobbit709]

75. And you know this how?

Let's see you cite some data instead of your preconceived notions.

[Drahthaardogs]

100. Here is the photo of the four dead dogs from last year.

[jsmirman]

102. Why did six die in 2009

that did happen, though, did it not? That's what the Huff Po article, which, as I mention, seemed pretty evenhanded, says happened in that year's Iditarod.

What were the circumstances surrounding that?

[janx]

103. Here is a detailed explanation from ADN in 2009:

http://www.adn.com/2009/03/20/731154/number-of-dog-deaths-on-iditarod.html

[jsmirman]

107. Thank you for the article/I gotta tell you

Three deaths a race being presented as acceptable?

The idea that in that span of time, taking that (I would think) unusually healthy population of dogs, all in the prime of life - I call statistical BS that three from that population are likely to die under normal circumstances. I've done statistical work for a living, and there are all sorts of statistical shenanigans in the statement here:

Race veterinarians say those are the sorts of deaths that happen to dogs almost anywhere on a daily basis, although the motor vehicle most likely to hit and kill dogs elsewhere is a car or truck, not a snowmobile. Illnesses, however, kill dogs the same way they do people, only more often given the relatively short life spans of canines.

This is pure justification. I've got to think reading this description makes you at least the slightest bit uncomfortable - well cared for, healthy dogs do not just up and die at those rates over a period of less than two weeks.

It's this kind of junk from veterinarians for hire that makes me hate the AVMA and not trust someone solely on the basis of them having a DVM/VMD.

Citing short doggy lifespans to justify deaths in a two week period? Come on.

I'm going to have to go with needing to see a number of years of ZERO deaths, or death only under extraordinary/unpreventable circumstances, to not find the event unsettling. People die crossing the street, sure. People also die running super-marathons in the desert. Just because there's a chance you could die doing both doesn't make the two things equally deadly.

[janx]

110. There can be 1,070 + dogs running that race.

It's not justification. Well cared for, healthy dogs do up and die on occasion. These 1,070 + dogs come from a variety of backgrounds, age ranges, circumstances, and genetic dispositions. Remember, these aren't purebred dogs. It's impossible to say, for example, that an Alaskan husky is prone to a certain amount of hip dysplasia probability or bloat. They're mutts with varying degrees of northern dog bred in.

They're going to be trotting across very rugged terrain, eating, camping out with the mushers, sleeping, interacting with people, for 14 or more days and nights. 1,070 + dogs. Think about it.

If you are coming from a place where you are breeding purebred dogs for people's pets (and I have a weim sleeping on the futon next to me now), I can understand your alarm, but this situation is entirely different.

[jsmirman]

122. We've easily got 3 or 4,000 kids playing HS basketball here in NYC

let me tell you this - if three kids dropped dead in two weeks, holy shit, you would have a million mom march with a bunch of pissed off mothers carrying tire irons and looking to turn all the city schools inside out.

We're just not going to agree on this or see it in the same way. Btw, believe it or not, I have met Alaskan Huskies - this is NYC - we have all kinds of people, all kinds of animals, all kinds of everything.

You also have me pegged a little wrong, I'm afraid. I'm a strictly adopt, spay, neuter guy. I wish people didn't breed animals at all. I understand that not everyone is going to see it that way, but at minimum I ask that animals not be treated with cruelty, and frankly, I think that if people have just *got to have a breed* they should do something correspondingly charitable for the rest of the world's animals, in some way. But that's just my opinion.

It's interesting that you view mutt qualities as genetic weakness. In the rescue community, we have long since learned that a mixed heritage equals heartiness and general good health. It's the pure breeds that have all the genetic problems. My guy is a cat, and, of course, a rescue, and knock on wood, he's a bruiser and of as stout a stock as you can find. He turned thirteen a few months ago and he's still a wild man and a brawling maniac when he cares to be. Honestly, he seems to be of pretty perfect orange tabby or american short hair heritage, but I like to attribute his good, well, everything, to being a rescue.

What is a real concern I have, as well, about the breeding for sled dogs? What happens to the dogs who turn out to not be ideal for the purpose? Is there a happy ending? I don't know, so I'm asking.


Oh - edited to add - my avatar is a photo of Jane Goodall, which is frustratingly small, because if it were bigger, you would see just how beautiful she was as a younger woman. But that might give you a sense of where I generally stand as things relate to animals...

[Blue_In_AK]

105. 2009 was an extreme weather year

in which we almost lost some mushers, as well. The article that Janx posted explains.

[jsmirman]

108. I'm not trying to be difficult

but as I point out in my reply to her, there are justifications in that article I simply cannot be copacetic with.

I gotta go for the evening, if my replies cut out at this point.

[janx]

50. Are you taking pics again this year?

I hope!

[Blue_In_AK]

60. Yes, I am.

I already have a good group from the ceremonial start and the restart, and we're heading out to Nome Sunday. Do you think you'll ever get up here again?

[janx]

64. I hope so!

I couldn't stay for the finish in 2008, and I'd love to see it someday. Glad to hear about the pics. I'll check them out. I've just myself begun to get into digital photography...bought a new lense recently and have been taken photos of critters! Are you on FB?

[janx]

67. It's the ALIY CAM !!

So cruel, so cruel...

[Blue_In_AK]

68. I love Aliy.

She's one of the most photogenic mushers and she always runs beautiful dogs.

We've had so much snow this year that it's been reported the Steps were like soft pillows.

[janx]

73. I love her videos,

and that is one of my favorites. I heard about the snow conditions, yes. Just now getting into the race. Spring break has officially started, and though I have some work to do, I can devote some time online to keep track of what's going on.

[Blue_In_AK]

112. Did you see? Aliy is out in front again,

five minutes ahead of Mitch Seavey. I'd love to see a woman win the race again, wouldn't you?

[janx]

116. YES!

I saw it, and I'd love to see her team win. I'm still a Windy Creek Kennel fan (Ken/Gwen), but I so appreciate how Aliy and her dogs respond to one another.

[roguevalley]

119. I know, Blue. I try anyway. :) They are so wonderful. Lucky you to go to Nome. Hugs, honey

[TorchTheWitch]

31. Bull

They run straight to their death because they are dogs with normal dog pack mentality that says when the pack leader (the human) tells you to keep running even if it means you drop dead in the process you do it. It is the exact same reason that dogs have collapsed and died while running with their owners - because they are dogs doing what their dog genetics tells them to do in following their leader when the leader commands it even if it kills them.

NO dog runs to it's death with all the exhaustion and pain that entails just because oooh gee wiz they just sooo love to run. To believe any such thing is to be willfully stupid.

ALL dogs are dogs FIRST with all the genetic qualities that entails, and no magic breeding creates a breed of dog that will run to it's death because they love to run so much. The very idea is as moronic as it gets. The dog runs to its death specifically because of those genetic qualities of it's SPECIES that tells it to do what the pack leader says even if it kills you. That's EXACTLY why dogs were the chosen species for such a race to begin with.

There is NO QUESTION that it is cruel and inhumane to latch onto to a dog's genetic species mentality and force it to run and run past the point of ultimate exhaustion and even death. NO QUESTION. NONE.

[joeybee12]

45. Exactly...wish I could rec your post...nt

[janx]

52. Actually, your description isn't accurate.

The pack leaders in these races are the lead dogs, the ones in front. These vary; in other words, the same dog or dogs are not up front all the time. In addition, no human can make a dog run to its death. If the dog is tired, *it will not run*, and there's nothing any human can do to make it run. Nothing.

See my post down thread. There's a lot of misinformation about this race, and most of it comes from a woman by the name of Margery Glickman. She does a lot of internet posting, but she doesn't know what she's talking about.

[Drahthaardogs]

98. Except that does not happen.

But your mental image of dogs running to their death is quite dramatic. Too bad it is not founded in anything close to reality.

[roguevalley]

120. and you don't know crap. Philly burbs. Come here and see for yourself. Oh wait. That would be

anecdotal. After all, if you actually see for yourself you can't pull facts out of your backside. Yes, alert me.

RV, who lives here, has helped with teams and knows first hand the system of support they have and how wrong your assumptions are. But what the hell? I only live here and have direct experience. How can I compete with the Philly burbs?

[baldguy]

39. How do you think wolves live in the wild?

They follow the herds of their prey - all year long, for hundreds & thousands of miles each day. And the more starved & weary & exhausted they are, the longer they'll run after their prey.

These dogs are well-fed, extremely well-trained - both physically and socially, and they LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE TO RUN. The cruelest thing you could do to them is to stop them from running.

[Arugula Latte]

48. It is one thing to take your sled dogs out for a run

It is another to have them do the Battan Death Run over hundreds and hundreds of miles. It's a matter of moderation. The Iditarod has none.

If these people want to run 1,000 miles through the Alaskan wilderness they are free to make that choice for themselves, as humans. Dogs don't have a say, and they will run themselves to death. Plenty do.

[janx]

58. "Battan Death Run" --

The Iditarod doesn't work that way. In fact, if it weren't for moderation, nobody would ever finish the race, let alone win it.

[baldguy]

71. The voice of someone who has no experience with working dogs.

Next you'll be saying that they shouldn't be left to suffer in the freezing cold.

[hobbit709]

72. At least spell Bataan right.

[Arugula Latte]

83. Oops I meant Baattaann.

[Cerridwen]

23. If you've ever had a 'working breed'

this would make sense.

But, you'd have to understand the breed.

disney, had little to no knowledge and propagandized 'us' to idiocy.

[Robb]

40. Yup.

I've had a lot of sled dogs over the years, and done a fair amount of sledding with them.

Just like there are people who jog around the block and people who run the Hardrock 100 every year, there are dogs who prefer day trips and dogs who seem never satisfied with the distance we went.

Iditarod keeps the focus on dog health, so races like the Beargrease and what-not stay sane. It's not my bag, but I'm glad it's "big."

[joeybee12]

46. BS...working is one thing, being pushed beyond it's limits to

exhaustion and death is abuse...end of discussion.

[janx]

49. Doesn't happen.

If a dog is tired, it won't run, and there's nothing you can do to make it run. It just stops. One of the challenges of the sport is something called the run/rest ratio, and these mushers know it and plan the race accordingly. In addition, there are rules about rest, mandatory stops, and vet checks at checkpoints.

[joeybee12]

74. BS...a dog died in 2009 shortly after a checkpoint where there were vets...

There were 14 dogs on the team...the sled stayed there 4 minutes...TELL ME the vets checked those dogs...the idiot-trod is criminal.

[hobbit709]

76. And people die of heart attacks after leaving the Dr.'s office and getting an EKG.

[Blue_In_AK]

104. That happened to my uncle.

He died in his mid-40s 20 minutes after leaving the doctor's office with a clean bill of health.

[hamsterjill]

77. This race is for the humans; not the dogs

It should be abolished as cruel and inhumane.

[jsmirman]

90. Defenders of the Iditarod - how do you respond

to even some of the claims from the front page of this site: http://www.helpsleddogs.org/default.htm

You extoll the virtues of the race itself, but it is very hard not to be concerned about the breeding practices and the kennel operations - in all my experience with *similar* operations, the conditions for cruelty are rife and very likely to occur.

It's nice that you provide a much rosier picture than what is outlined by stories like this one:

Dog’s beating left me appalled, sick and shocked (Letter to the Editor, Whitehorse Star, February 23, 2011)

"It is around one year ago today as I write this, fewer than two weeks before the legendary 2011 Iditarod race start, that, as a dog handler at a private kennel location in Alaska, I witnessed the extremely violent beating of an Iditarod racing dog by one of the racing industry’s most high-profile top 10 mushers.

Be assured the beating was clearly not within an 'acceptable range' of 'discipline'.

Indeed, the scene left me appalled, sick and shocked.

After viewing an individual sled dog repeatedly booted with full force, the male person doing the beating jumping back and forth like a pendulum with his full body weight to gain full momentum and impact.

He then alternated his beating technique with full-ranging, hard and fast, closed-fist punches like a piston to the dog as it was held by its harness splayed onto the ground.

He then staggeringly lifted the dog by the harness with two arms above waist height, then slammed the dog into the ground with full force, again repeatedly, all of this repeatedly.

The other dogs harnessed into the team were barking loudly and excitedly, jumping and running around frenzied in their harnesses.

The attack was sustained, continuing for several minutes perhaps over four minutes, within view at least, until the all-terrain vehicle I was a passenger on turned a curve on the converging trails, and the scene disappeared from view.

This particular dog was just under 10 days out from commencing racing in the long distance Iditarod race. It was later seen to have survived the attack, although bloodied as a result.

Personally, I have never witnessed such a violent attack on a living creature before. The image of that explosion of anger and physical force of one man on a smaller animal is burnt to my memory."

- Jane Stevens, Australia

How do you respond to this stuff. You're presenting what we are being asked to accept as a wholly sanitized version. Is the truth as clean as you are insisting it is?

[janx]

92. See my post #52. n/t

[jsmirman]

94. Ok, but that's a letter to the editor

not something written by Glickman.

Do you insist that none of this stuff happens?

[janx]

109. Of course not. Sick, twisted

human beings abuse other animals. That's a given. What I will insist is that most of the people involved in the Iditarod have devoted their lives to their dogs. There are people living at 30 or 40 below with no electricity and no running water because they spend their money making sure their dogs are well taken care of, healthy, and happy. They spend days and nights out in the wilderness bonding with their dogs and years doing the grueling work that it takes to maintain a kennel.

I got a chance to meet some of these people and to spend some days with them, and I can honestly say that I have never, never seen a more beautiful relationship between human beings and another animal. When they are out on the trail, the dogs and humans literally depend on one another for survival. That in itself is one reason that claims of regular dog abuse regarding the Iditarod are ludicrous. Yes, there are some people who are unprepared to enter the race, and yes, every once in awhile (a decade or more?) you'll have someone go crazy on the trail, but that's rare, primarily because people like that are ostracized by the mushing community. These dogs are like gods to the mushers, and if any abuse occurs, look out.

Long distance dog mushing is a subculture, one in which everyone seems to know everyone else, at least, say, in the top 20 or 30 finishers of the Iditarod. If a team or a member of a team gets into trouble on the trail, the team behind it will stop to help, even if it costs a second or third place title.

Again, I suggest you go see it. Get in touch with a musher or two and ask if you may visit them before the race, etc. If you offer to help, you might even get a handler armband that lets you get behind the scenes.

[jsmirman]

124. I don't suspect

that abuse is a regular thing - that's never been my worry. My worry is if there is even a quotient of abuse that is a by product of the race, that's something I can't be okay with.

As I asked in a post to you above, what does happen to the dogs bred to be sled dogs who just aren't very good sled dogs? That is an aspect that concerns me. What are the protections around breeding and kennel operations, and how do you prevent a situation where any sort of contraction equals unwanted dogs and tragedies like Whistler? I'm not saying there aren't good answers to these questions, I'd just like to hear them.

I understand what you mean about the bond between man and animal - I have formed many strong bonds with animals, and my bond with my animal is just something that, well, there could not be a closer bond between two creatures. He is literally like an extension of myself.

I'm open to the idea that there is a positive culture around the race, and what you describe is how it should be in all competitions where there is danger - a classic example is any sailing competition - if saving a fellow competitor isn't more important than the competition, than the competition is meaningless. That doesn't stop me from being concerned that the event's past still sounds like too many deaths to me, and from being hopeful that steps are regularly taken to make the event more safe and less likely to be lethal.

If progress continues to be made in that direction, which it seems there has been, I would think there would come a time when I would like to see it. Probably not yet, though, which I don't expect you to agree with, but I hope you can understand.

[jsmirman]

96. Also look this article from Huff Po

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/03/iditarod-race-questions-animal-cruelty_n_1318661.html

It says that six dogs died in the 2009 race.

I can believe things are getting better - I hope that's the case, and I'm not opposed to believing it.

I have to tell you, I have a much harder time believing that there isn't culling and rampant opportunities for abuse in the kennels.

The article here reminded me of the two cases of 2008 Iditarod kennel-related cruelty that I had read about in the past.

The huff po article certainly seems to be a pretty evenhanded take on the race.

Are you all issuing, essentially, a blanket denial of any of these problems? Because that seems much harder to believe.

[janx]

106. See post #103. n/t