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Are_grits_groceries

(17,111 posts)
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 05:00 AM Mar 2012

'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law

Halfway through my pregnancy, I learned that my baby was ill. Profoundly so. My doctor gave us the news kindly, but still, my husband and I weren’t prepared. Just a few minutes earlier, we’d been smiling giddily at fellow expectant parents as we waited for the doctor to see us. In a sonography room smelling faintly of lemongrass, I’d just had gel rubbed on my stomach, just seen blots on the screen become tiny hands. For a brief, exultant moment, we’d seen our son—a brother for our 2-year-old girl.
<snip>
My counselor said that the law required me to have another ultrasound that day, and that I was legally obligated to hear a doctor describe my baby. I’d then have to wait 24 hours before coming back for the procedure. She said that I could either see the sonogram or listen to the baby’s heartbeat, adding weakly that this choice was mine.

“I don’t want to have to do this at all,” I told her. “I’m doing this to prevent my baby’s suffering. I don’t want another sonogram when I’ve already had two today. I don’t want to hear a description of the life I’m about to end. Please,” I said, “I can’t take any more pain.” I confess that I don’t know why I said that. I knew it was fait accompli. The counselor could no more change the government requirement than I could. Yet here was a superfluous layer of torment piled upon an already horrific day, and I wanted this woman to know it.
<snip>
“I’m so sorry that I have to do this,” the doctor told us, “but if I don’t, I can lose my license.” Before he could even start to describe our baby, I began to sob until I could barely breathe. Somewhere, a nurse cranked up the volume on a radio, allowing the inane pronouncements of a DJ to dull the doctor’s voice. Still, despite the noise, I heard him. His unwelcome words echoed off sterile walls while I, trapped on a bed, my feet in stirrups, twisted away from his voice.

“Here I see a well-developed diaphragm and here I see four healthy chambers of the heart...”
<snip>
http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/the-right-not-to-know

This is beyond cruel. It serves no purpose except to torment women who are considering an abortion for whatever reasons.
How dare these immoral shites impose this kind of "law" on anybody? Many of these cretins have
skeletons in their closets that would at least raise eyebrows.
And these same assholes claim they want government out of everything.
Meh!








45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'We Have No Choice': One Woman's Ordeal with Texas' New Sonogram Law (Original Post) Are_grits_groceries Mar 2012 OP
The problem is THERE is no MALE equalivant to such a terrible event that I beginning to think Justice wanted Mar 2012 #1
I wish there was so EARTH SHATTERING, PAINFUL, INVASIVE and LIFE THWARTING roguevalley Mar 2012 #28
there is 1-prostate exam StarsInHerHair Mar 2012 #42
ALL THE MORE REASON TO GET OUT AND VOTE! Throw the bums OUT, post haste. CarmanK Mar 2012 #35
Have gotten my ABSENTEE BALLOTS for primary and on order for GENERAL ELECTION. CarmanK Mar 2012 #36
WTF. Seriously. This is freaking insane. DLevine Mar 2012 #2
Awful CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #5
. lunatica Mar 2012 #3
This is deliberate torture! MarianJack Mar 2012 #4
When did this law go into effect? Matariki Mar 2012 #6
Plus, they get charged for the torture. Ilsa Mar 2012 #7
There was an interview with Perry socialindependocrat Mar 2012 #12
Unwanted penetration is rape - Why is this allowed? socialindependocrat Mar 2012 #8
This is the kind of fascist bullshit that misogyny leads to. Chorophyll Mar 2012 #9
Kick. nt Chorophyll Mar 2012 #10
Government is evil when it interfers with peoples lives... RegieRocker Mar 2012 #11
+1000 nt abelenkpe Mar 2012 #18
There a provision in the law B2G Mar 2012 #13
These "Rape by Government" laws are horrible. Walk away Mar 2012 #14
Kicking Original excuse not to write Mar 2012 #15
When Dr. Tiller was murdered, hundreds of his patients came forward and told their stories. proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #16
Do you mean pro-choice anti-alec Mar 2012 #21
No I mean pro-abortion proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #22
I'm with you. xmas74 Mar 2012 #30
I got it all right... anti-alec Mar 2012 #33
This, THIS is the heartbreaking reality. nolabear Mar 2012 #17
I am so profoundly sorry for you and your husband having to experience such a horror. Dont call me Shirley Mar 2012 #19
fascist conservative party SkyNeT13 Mar 2012 #20
Is the ACLU losing its mojo? tcaudilllg Mar 2012 #23
There are ways the doctors and nurses can mock and undermine these laws bluestateguy Mar 2012 #24
They won't do that. tcaudilllg Mar 2012 #26
Is the ACLU losing its mojo? tcaudilllg Mar 2012 #25
Want A Gun Permit? Get A Catheter marias23 Mar 2012 #27
What strikes me about this essay is that the woman herself hedgehog Mar 2012 #29
Just like with pot - it's rape under federal law, and the doctors can be charged. Will they? saras Mar 2012 #31
I do not understad why medical xxqqqzme Mar 2012 #32
In Kansas, a new law was going to cause the state university medical school to lose accreditation proud2BlibKansan Mar 2012 #34
Hate the law? Thank every Democrat for sitting out November 2010 derby378 Mar 2012 #37
Next thing you know they will be cutting off eyelids so women will HAVE to look at it. They're sick judesedit Mar 2012 #38
Sorry... for this Dan Mar 2012 #39
The Law Violates The Hypocratic Oath DallasNE Mar 2012 #40
Rape crisis centers need to start helping women through this ordeal. McCamy Taylor Mar 2012 #41
All thinking Texans are ashamed of our gov. and state legislature for this DFW Mar 2012 #43
These doctors have to stand up & refuse Viva Mar 2012 #44
I cannot believe the AMA is just cowing to the RW felix_numinous Mar 2012 #45

Justice wanted

(2,657 posts)
1. The problem is THERE is no MALE equalivant to such a terrible event that I beginning to think
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 06:27 AM
Mar 2012

the MEN who are creating these BULL SHIT Laws care nothing to Humanity or Morality! If they did they wouldn't put a woman trough this! We are take HUGE steps backwards and it is becoming a steep slippery slope. We need to pull the reigns now before it is too late!

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
28. I wish there was so EARTH SHATTERING, PAINFUL, INVASIVE and LIFE THWARTING
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 12:08 PM
Mar 2012

procedure that men would have to endure. FUCKERS!

StarsInHerHair

(2,125 posts)
42. there is 1-prostate exam
Sun Mar 18, 2012, 01:19 AM
Mar 2012

warp & change how the exam is done, transrectal probes; make them go thru hoops for their fuck pills too

CarmanK

(662 posts)
35. ALL THE MORE REASON TO GET OUT AND VOTE! Throw the bums OUT, post haste.
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 05:43 PM
Mar 2012

We have to follow WI which is throwing the bums out. Walker is at least halted somewhat. His repug legislature has done some real harm to the state, but at least now the ST senate is not longer repug majority.

CarmanK

(662 posts)
36. Have gotten my ABSENTEE BALLOTS for primary and on order for GENERAL ELECTION.
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 05:45 PM
Mar 2012

Be sure anyone you know who needs an absentee ballot etc... gets their application in ASAP. We cannot afford to lose a single vote to the repugs who want to deprive: minorities, the elderly etc.. their right to vote.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
3. .
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 06:49 AM
Mar 2012

This law should get some legislators impeached and unelected very soon.

Women, and enlightened men, aren't going to conveniently forget this.

MarianJack

(10,237 posts)
4. This is deliberate torture!
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 06:57 AM
Mar 2012

Cruelty perpetrated with the sole intent of humiliating a woman who is having an entirely LEGAL [roceedure done.

Shameful.

Oh but wait. The rethugs tell us that there's no war on women. They wouldn't be friggin' liars would they?

PEACE!

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
6. When did this law go into effect?
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 07:09 AM
Mar 2012

I thought this insanity wasn't passing anywhere. I'm starting to feel murderous rage over this. What the fuck is going on?

Ilsa

(61,709 posts)
7. Plus, they get charged for the torture.
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 07:25 AM
Mar 2012

I don't know what it will take for Texas women to stand up to them.

socialindependocrat

(1,372 posts)
12. There was an interview with Perry
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 12:02 PM
Mar 2012

He said something about being against Planned Parenthood
and the interviewer said that there were no federal funds going to
support abortions and Perry started to stammer after that.

It was on this a.m. at 10:30 or so

socialindependocrat

(1,372 posts)
8. Unwanted penetration is rape - Why is this allowed?
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 08:22 AM
Mar 2012

We have a very sick bunch of people in our society.

Things are illegal until the government gets something from it then it's legal.

Why does the government have the power to ignore the law!!

Chorophyll

(5,179 posts)
9. This is the kind of fascist bullshit that misogyny leads to.
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 08:35 AM
Mar 2012

When you've got half the country believing that every woman who seeks to terminate a pregnancy is doing so because she's a "slut" who must be punished for her sexuality, you end up putting people through medical horror shows that would have made the Nazis dance for joy.

I'm disgusted.

 

RegieRocker

(4,226 posts)
11. Government is evil when it interfers with peoples lives...
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 09:13 AM
Mar 2012

The Republicans and Libertarians are so full of crap.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
13. There a provision in the law
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 01:26 PM
Mar 2012

That states a women can waive this:

The doctor, then, is required to give, "in a manner understandable to a layperson, a verbal explanation of the results of the sonogram images, including a medical description of the dimensions of the embryo or fetus, the presence of cardiac activity, and the presence of external members and internal organs," the law states.

There are some exceptions, including pregnancies that resulted from sexual assault, incest or other violations of law.

Women seeking abortions also are exempt if the fetus has been found to have an irreversible medical condition that will cause a disability.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-20/politics/texas.abortion.sonogram_1_sonogram-procedure-abortion?_s=PM OLITICS

Walk away

(9,494 posts)
14. These "Rape by Government" laws are horrible.
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 03:55 PM
Mar 2012

I'm glad that both my nieces plan on going to Europe for grad school. I hope they stay and make their lives there. This country is not a safe place for young women to live.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
16. When Dr. Tiller was murdered, hundreds of his patients came forward and told their stories.
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 09:04 PM
Mar 2012

They were all over the internet. Just heart breaking stories. A lot like the one you posted.

But the story that stuck with me was from a woman who was in her 80s. She came to a memorial we had here in Kansas. She told of being pregnant in the 1950s, long before abortion was legal, and her baby died in the 6th month. Her doctor said she needed an abortion to get that dead fetus out of her or she could suffer serious health consequences, including death. But there was no doctor anywhere here in Kansas or in the country who was willing to perform this life saving abortion. So she was forced to carry that dead baby for 3 more months until her body went into labor. By that time, she was very ill, nearly died, and was unable to have any more children.

That woman's story is all I need to be pro-abortion. When I think that a woman nearly DIED because our laws in this country are so back asswards, I want to scream.

 

anti-alec

(420 posts)
21. Do you mean pro-choice
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 01:07 AM
Mar 2012

When you said pro-abortion - I'm thinking you all over Wichita screaming, "I AM GOING TO ABORT ALL BABIES" - going insane...

Not that kind of imagery I wanted...

And will be visiting your fine state, even when it's full of nutcases, next monday before I head home.

xmas74

(29,676 posts)
30. I'm with you.
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 12:19 PM
Mar 2012

I consider myself to be both pro-choice and pro-abortion.

You can be pro-choice yet not be too happy with abortion. That's part of being pro-choice: you have the right to choose. I'm also pro-abortion and I feel that it should be legal and easily accessible. I feel that the only regulations against clinics should be similar to any other out patient surgical clinics.

 

anti-alec

(420 posts)
33. I got it all right...
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 03:57 PM
Mar 2012

No problem - I'm pro-abortion too.

The reply below explained it, and it kicked me in the rear and I got it.

It's mighty hot in Chicago, and this apartment is pretty worthless without air conditioning - I don't understand why a senior living place would have no air conditioning system in place???

I'm not a senior - I'm 36 years old, but the senior living place has a few apartments for rent by the day and we're only staying 3 days. Nephew's bar mitzvah was today.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
19. I am so profoundly sorry for you and your husband having to experience such a horror.
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 10:11 PM
Mar 2012

Time to rip these goppers out of their seats so hard that they will lose any chance of ever resurrecting their deviantly mentally sick party.

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
24. There are ways the doctors and nurses can mock and undermine these laws
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 02:05 AM
Mar 2012

Like turning up the volume on the radio in the office and reading the required information from a prepared script in a boring, monotone tone of voice that will lose the woman's attention.

 

tcaudilllg

(1,553 posts)
26. They won't do that.
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 03:30 AM
Mar 2012

Last edited Sat Mar 17, 2012, 04:25 AM - Edit history (1)

It's not in their nature. They will obey the law. The personality of a doctor has a lot in common with that of a cop.

marias23

(379 posts)
27. Want A Gun Permit? Get A Catheter
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 09:21 AM
Mar 2012

Many men (secretly) think the women they sleep with are “sluts.” Are there any laws that tell men what they can or cannot do to/with their bodies? (Please post, if you know.) But there are a number regarding woman's bodies. Moreover, the laws are very personal and harsh. I think men have a lot of issues with women. They have no problem with other people (i.e. women) being forced to carry a child they do not want even if it is the result of rape or incest or the fetus is ill. They have no problem with an object being inserted into a woman’s vagina if they want an abortion.
Perhaps a little 14th Amendment equality is called for here. I will support a Virginia style law if they introduce an amendment calling for a catheter to be inserted into a man’s penis if they want a gun permit.

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
29. What strikes me about this essay is that the woman herself
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 12:17 PM
Mar 2012

did not want to get an abortion - but at the same time felt that it was the right step forward for her baby. There was no hiding behind words like "fetus" here; she had a horribly ill son and this was the best thing she could do for him.

For her, abortion wasn't the "easy way out", out of a series of horrible outcomes it was the least horrible.

 

saras

(6,670 posts)
31. Just like with pot - it's rape under federal law, and the doctors can be charged. Will they?
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 12:19 PM
Mar 2012

A state or municipality doesn't have the RIGHT to redefine rape.

http://www.students.haverford.edu/masar/documents/USRapeLaws.pdf

xxqqqzme

(14,887 posts)
32. I do not understad why medical
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 03:36 PM
Mar 2012

groups, organizations - AMA - are absent from this outrage. Their practice of medicine is being dictated to them.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
34. In Kansas, a new law was going to cause the state university medical school to lose accreditation
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 04:03 PM
Mar 2012

and officials from the university and the medical school were ABSENT while the bill was being debated. They finally surfaced this week and behind closed doors negotiated a deal that would get them around the accreditation issue.

Mind you, they never argued AGAINST the law. They just worked it out so their students would be in an accredited program.

Just unreal. What's the matter with Kansas indeed.

derby378

(30,252 posts)
37. Hate the law? Thank every Democrat for sitting out November 2010
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 05:49 PM
Mar 2012

There is an old quote that sticks in my head even now: The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

When Democrats turned away for even one election cycle, that allowed a crueler, more vicious breed of Republican to ascend and take over state governments one by one. The "Republican War On Women" isn't being waged at Capitol Hill, but instead in your state capitol.

No excuses. Find the most ardent pro-woman Democrats you can, help them win the primary, then help them win the vote.

judesedit

(4,443 posts)
38. Next thing you know they will be cutting off eyelids so women will HAVE to look at it. They're sick
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 05:54 PM
Mar 2012

bastards and we are the ones who have to stop them. VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT OF OFFICE. Yes, I screamed. And you should be, too!

Dan

(3,585 posts)
39. Sorry... for this
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 08:53 PM
Mar 2012

But what I don't understand is - why not for the coming election become a single issue voter - and vote against every politician that voted to support this...regardless of party. Why don't the females organize nationally, and just single issue vote them out all across the nation.

DallasNE

(7,404 posts)
40. The Law Violates The Hypocratic Oath
Sun Mar 18, 2012, 12:11 AM
Mar 2012

So the doctor should resign and either take up a new practice or take his practice to a new State. This doctor is not a victim as he claims here. He is a coward.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
41. Rape crisis centers need to start helping women through this ordeal.
Sun Mar 18, 2012, 12:54 AM
Mar 2012

I am serious. The state's women's centers, that do rape crisis work need to start assigning people to sit with women who are undergoing their enforced "counseling". They can offer support and an opposing view.

We have Jane's Due Process in Texas, lawyers who help underage women get abortions. Maybe we need Jane's Best Friend.

DFW

(54,467 posts)
43. All thinking Texans are ashamed of our gov. and state legislature for this
Sun Mar 18, 2012, 07:30 AM
Mar 2012

Last edited Sun Mar 18, 2012, 08:30 AM - Edit history (1)

My European wife refuses to live in the States, in part because people who pass
laws like this arrange for laws like this to be enforced. She is German, and refuses
to go through what her parents did in the early 1940s.

Viva

(39 posts)
44. These doctors have to stand up & refuse
Sun Mar 18, 2012, 11:10 AM
Mar 2012

There is no one in the room,
they DO NOT have to do this

There is no one making them to do this

Every doctor who does this is complicate.

There were doctors who would do abortions when it was illegal. They did the right thing and disobeyed the law.


felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
45. I cannot believe the AMA is just cowing to the RW
Sun Mar 18, 2012, 09:20 PM
Mar 2012

--are they not practicing in the 21st century? Why do they not fight these backward and dangerous laws? This is what I do not understand--HOW is it that everyone just ALLOWS these neanderthals to be so powerful?

I wish the AMA would get legal counsel and FIGHT these laws that not only punish and shame women, but put them in potential future malpractice suits. Because potentially now women will pursue legal means to defend themselves against forced procedures and go after the system, and --one would think-- that physicians would not want to take a risk of being caught up in it.

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