Before we start bashing Mormons this year, let me say this.

[RandySF]

Mitt Rmoney is an asshole not because he is Mormon, but because he is an asshole. I've gotten to know many member of the LDS over the years. Some are Democrats, some are Republicans. Some are good friends of the GLBT community and others are very far to the right. But the one thing they all had in common is that they were among the kindest people you will ever meet, including my son's afterschool teacher. So I hope that, when we go after Rmoney, we do so based on WHO he is, not WHAT he is.

[Nye Bevan]

1. As "The Economist" put it....

&quot Romney) could explain the Mormons’ extraordinary missionary work, but he can hardly risk saying that it is not really any more incredible that God communicated His plans to man in upstate New York in 1820 than He did in Palestine in 0AD."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/01/mormonism?page=4

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I agree. Romney is an asshole because he's a rich, privileged,

out-of-touch fuckwit, not because he's a Mormon. His theological inclinations have nothing to do with why I don't like him - in fact, I'm a bit surprised he's such a dick, since Mormons do tend to encourage niceness, even if it's only superficial. Romney doesn't even seem superficially nice.

[RevStPatrick]

9. I disagree...

I think he IS superficially nice.
But he is SUCH a dick on the inside, that it is so easy to see through it on the outside.
In fact, that's what's so creepy about him, that superficial niceness...

[EFerrari]

14. These are not mutually exclusive propositions. nt

[Honeycombe8]

36. FDR was rich and privileged. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

39. True. But he wasn't an out-of-touch fuckwit.

[fluchen]

40. Nor was he a dick.

[Honeycombe8]

50. Oh, I know. But the poster said he hated Romney 'cause he's rich&privileged.

I was just pointing out how unfair that statement is, since not all rich and privileged people are jerks. Probably many are, but not all.

[eShirl]

52. Wrong; he hates him because he is a "fuckwit."

"he's a rich, privileged, out-of-touch fuckwit,"

"Fuckwit" is the noun; "rich" "privileged" and "out-of-touch" function as adjectives modifying that noun.

[Honeycombe8]

55. To beat a dead horse, if he said he hates him 'cause "he's a gay out of touch fuckwit"...

or "he's an African American out of touch fucket" or "she's a female out of touch fuckwit" only the "fuckwit" part counts?

Why else would someone use the other adjectives, except that, of course, it means he hates that person for EVERY ADJECTIVE HE USED. Independenty.

[Bohunk68]

75. He's WHO he is

because of WHAT he is and what his belief systems are.

[Bohunk68]

76. Rmoney is WHO

he is because of WHAT he is and his belief system.

[etherealtruth]

3. I agree completely

Romney is an ass-hole all on his own ... nothing extraneous needs to be brought in.

[obxhead]

4. One mythical god is the same as another imo.

faith in a god is the same in my eye regardless of "His" name.

Romney is just another job killing .01% supporting asshole like the others in the GOP race of insanity.

[arbusto_baboso]

5. Not entirely true. His mormonism contributes...

to his assholishness.

He wouldn't be entirely like he is if he weren't incredibly welathy, true. His wealth puts him in a bubble of unreality. Yet, other wealthy people are at least able to ACT like they can connect with the common man.

Mormons are not all assholes, true. But "mormon royalty" (which Mitt is, by virtue of the fame of his mormon father) also lives in an unreality bubble. Indeed, mormonism exalts living "in the world but not OF it" and being "a peculiar people".

When you combine his bubble from being wealthy, with that of being mormon royalty... well, you get a hermetically sealed sphere through which very little reality will seep.

That's what makes him an asshole, and makes him always seem awkward when trying to connect with other human beings.

[USArmyParatrooper]

16. His religion has nothing to do with it.

Mitt Romney would sellout Mormonism for a Diet Coke if it meant he would win the nomination.

None of these right wing politicians who wear their religion on their sleeves give two shits about their so-called religion. It's about pandering to a base. It has nothing to do with faith.

[arbusto_baboso]

47. You really don't "get" mormons, do you?

I do. I was one, once. It DOES make a difference. He wouldn't sell out his mormonism because it's one of the things that's got him this far.

But hey, I'm used to my warnings being ignored. And I'm used to saying "I told you so" later.

[Major Hogwash]

57. I don't think you know very many Mormons.

They don't rush off to join the military because the church frowns upon it.

They don't marry people outside of their religion, or they can be excommunicated from the church for it.
Entire families have shunned other family members who married someone who was not a Mormon.

Before 1978, or somewhere around that time, the Mormon church didn't even accept Blacks as members of their church.
They considered Blacks to be descendents of Cain, and that being black was the mark that gawd put upon them for Cain killing his brother, Able.

These are not opinions, these are just facts about the Mormon church.

[USArmyParatrooper]

58. I'm not defending Mormanism.

Honestly I don't know much about that religion so I don't have an opinion.

I just don't believe Romney is a true believer. He's an opportunist. Would I be correct to assume lying is considered a sin by Mormans? How often would you estimate Romney has told a lie during the campaign?

If Romney felt completely selling out the Morman religion would win him the Presidency, he would do so in a heartbeat. This is just my speculative opinion.

[FreeState]

59. Apparently you don't either - nearly every thing you said is wrong

They don't rush off to join the military because the church frowns upon it.

Simlply not true in the slightest. Those serving in the military are given the highest regard - same with those serving in the Peace Corp. Those serving are typically given the same treatment by their home congregations as those serving a Mission for the church.

The church even has a large section on their website devoted to those serving. http://www.lds.org/pa/display/1,17884,4649-1,00.html

They don't marry people outside of their religion, or they can be excommunicated from the church for it. Entire families have shunned other family members who married someone who was not a Mormon.

There may be members that have done that but that is not a Church position. I grew up Mormon (no longer a member or a believer in God) and there were many part member families in my congregation(s). No one shunned them. My sister married a non-member IN THE CHURCH married by her Bishop!. Yes the church encourages you to marry a member, no they do not shun members that are married to non-members. See:http://www.lds.org/ensign/1985/02/they-of-his-own-household-living-in-a-part-member-family?lang=eng

Before 1978, or somewhere around that time, the Mormon church didn't even accept Blacks as members of their church.

LOL - no not true. Before 1978 they could not hold the priesthood - they could be members. The founder of the Church baptized a black man. Yes the church is horribly racist - but to say they disallowed membership would be wrong.

Blacks in the early church: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_early_Mormonism

Blacks and the Priesthood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

They considered Blacks to be descendents of Cain, and that being black was the mark that gawd put upon them for Cain killing his brother, Able.

This is the only one you got that is true. Its also true of almost all Christian faiths at one time or another. See the Curse and Mark of Cain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain

These are not opinions, these are just facts about the Mormon church.

Apparently its a bunch of half truths because they certainly are not facts.

[Major Hogwash]

67. Hahahaha!!!!

See if you have any credibility left after you tell people that garbage.
People like you kill me.

I have a lot of links on the internet!!
Wow, that's wild, man.

Oh, and guess what, the LDS has a website that tells you everything you want to believe about them.

[gopiscrap]

6. I agree with all of the above however:

The LDS Church has had it's hands in an awful lot of regressive politics. Think California Prop 8 and also their stance on reproductive choice. I have also heard many antitodes about how they generally like to dictate to politicians who belong to their sect.

[GodlessBiker]

7. It's perfectly acceptable to attack the Church itself...

for its disgusting official policies, including its support of Prop 8, even though there may be individual members of the Church, here and there, who might be sympathetic to the cause.

That is, I don't think there is anything wrong with bashing the Mormon Church as an institution which works against LGBT equality.

[Bruce Wayne]

8. Agreed. There should be no room for religious intolerance on DU.

All religious notions and traditions are insane to the extent that they differ with God's own Episcopalianism. But Mormons I've met tend to be hard working, honest, and compassionate people. Well, except for Oswald Cobblepot--he's a douchebag. But I don't think Cobblepot's any more representative of the Saints than Romney.

[northoftheborder]

10. The Morman people I have known personally were good, honest, intelligent, generous people.

Since I believe in separation of church and state, and the constitution, which states that there shall be no test of religion for political office, then I think anyone's, including Romney's, religion, should be out of bounds for criticism. (Santorum's obvious stated goals of creating a Christian nation out this country is another matter. In that case, his religion is open for debate.) As stated above, rMoney has enough baggage he has created all on his own. At least he is not trying to turn us all into Mormons.

[FSogol]

33. "At least he is not trying to turn us all into Mormons." - Until we die and they

decide to baptize us as Mormons.

[mulsh]

11. The Mormons I grew up with in the Bay Area, Oakland near the temple, were all pretty nice,

kind people. I'm still in touch with many of my contemporaries and even the devoutly Mormon people have remained kind and decent people regardless of their political beliefs. I could see voting for any one of them for local office. Although I will not vote for any republican, ever.

The Mormons from Utah in my wife's family tend to be a scary bunch. Especially the ones who stay in the church. The non-Mormon and "fallen" Mormons in her family have justifiably bad things to say about the hard core Mormons. And they avoid the hard core ones as much as they can.

I would never consider voting for any of the hard core Mormons for political office. Just as even though I was raised Catholic I would never vote for any hard core conservative Catholic candidate. Similar mind sets.

Willard Romney is one of the most uncomfortable, wooden people I have ever observed. He would be repellant no matter what his religious or ethnic background. I think its his most identifiable aspect and one he can never compensate for. The adherence to crazy Mormon dogma, ( he is a bishop in that church) is merely icing on the turd cake that his his candidacy.

[siligut]

12. I lived in Utah

Now, I understand Utah Mormons are a different breed of Mormon so YMMV, but when they were nice, they were really nice, but when they were bad, they were horrid. Some of the most dishonest professionals I have ever met live in Utah. Also, because it was so accepted, there was blatant chauvinism and prejudice.

And the whole city of Salt Lake ran off of gossip. I was never so aware of the power of gossip until I lived in Utah. Mitt is a different kind of asshole because he is Mormon, he is the sort of asshole who believes he is doing God's work, the worst kind of asshole.

Now, I also met some wonderful Mormons, but I believe they are being taken advantage of by the predatory Mormons.

[Broderick]

15. People can be people regardless of their inane deep roots of religion

All people can be nice. All people can be horrid. When they use their fundamentals to enhance their psychological power over others' morays I get the opportunity to push away and see it for what it is.

[siligut]

19. The indoctrination is insidious

I am talking about Utah Mormons, you are surrounded before you know what is going on. I think that is why they admire bees, they are like the borg.

[Honeycombe8]

37. I can't get over the magic underwear. Sorry, but that's weird.

It's not a showing of respect, which is what Marie Osmond said once. Maybe it is, but it's more. It has to do with the magic underwear guaranteeing them their own pad in Heaven or something. Let's just call that what it is: weird.

[siligut]

38. A Mormon woman told me a story about the underwear

She told me a man was in a burning house and the areas of his body, covered by the magic underwear, didn't burn. I didn't try to discuss this any further. I believe its purpose is to act as a daily reminder for Mormons. Some older Mormons wear the kind with the slits and only remove them to wash them.

[EFerrari]

13. After what the Mormon church did re Prop H8 in California

and considering their misogynistic, homophobic, racist as hell history, you bet their anti-American culture is fair game for criticism.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Iggo]

17. Yep. They picked this fight. I didn't.

When they quit, I'll quit.

NO H8.

[cali]

32. amen. n/t

[hunter]

35. Yep.

The Mormon alliance with the right wing Catholics on Prop H8 was a match made in Hell.

[Major Hogwash]

68. How much did they spend re Prop H8? $20 Million dollars, wasn't it?

That's a lot of cabbage.

They should have spent that money feeding the hungry instead!!!

[EFerrari]

74. It's not a violation of separation to say, this group acted hatefully

and they continue to act hatefully and until they stop, I'm going to call them out.

[AmandaRuth]

18. I am happy that your experiences with the LDS have been

positive, but my experiences have been exactly opposite.

From my experience, to say they are cultish would be an understatement. This is from working for a big corp, with a Mormon boss for 2 years.

[freshwest]

20. Thanks, good thread. If only they stayed out of rightwing politics.

But then I guess that's part of the USA, now.

[Motown_Johnny]

21. I would hope we don't bash an entire group of people

just because Rmoney is a member of their faith.


I think we should focus on their belief system and the actions they have taken because of those actions and not attack them on a personal basis.


For example the church of LDS put lots of money into prop. 8 in CA.. This is fair game. I don't consider that bashing.

[EFerrari]

30. Has the Mormon Church ever denounced Saladoran death squads

that Mittiens funded via Bain?

[Motown_Johnny]

34. Not that I am aware of

your point?

[Zalatix]

22. Never crossed my mind to bash him for his Mormonism.

However I do consider this worthy of passing onto Gingrich's pastor, Scott Thomas.

[Yo_Mama]

23. Nice post

Yeah, disagree with the guy, but there's no need to stereotype an entire religion.

[athenasatanjesus]

24. I would never bash a religion that produced Steve Young.nt

[onenote]

69. Or Mo Udall

Although I have my doubts as to how many DUers remember Mo Udall.

[sadbear]

25. My brother married into Mormonism

And every person raised Mormon I've met since then strives to be 1%. Seems being wealthy is very important to the LDS church.

[MrSlayer]

45. Of course it is.

Tithe is the most important thing to them. The more you give, the higher your position. Bishop Romney gives a ton.

[marlakay]

26. I have no problems with our next door neighbors

Who are Mormons. Very nice people, we live in the country they have chickens and sell eggs we have got some.

Only problem we have is when people from their church keep coming to our door. We are not religous and don't like the door preaching thing.

If they leave me alone, I will leave them alone...

I don't like Mitt because number one he is a republican and against everything I believe in, number two his company caused a lot of people to lose jobs, he was mean to his dog, he changes his mind about everything he believes in....He seems to only care for the rich. Has zero compassion for the poor.

[Taverner]

27. Some Mormons are Assholes. Some are kind.

religion or lack thereof has nothing to do with kindness

[Wind Dancer]

56. hmmm

It depends! Religion can be very harmful. History and current events are proof of that.

[Taverner]

60. Yes, but cars can be too...

[Wind Dancer]

70. Cars are tangible objects.

God is abstract and differs according to one's faith. People will use their religion as an excuse to commit atrocities.

The Mormons’ historical racism is another issue Romney doesn’t talk about. The church recently weighed in on this issue, after Brigham Young University professor Randy Bott’s racist remarks sparked a firestorm. Bott said that the church’s ban on African-Americans serving in the priesthood (in place until 1978) was actually a “blessing” because blacks were not ready for the priesthood. The church quickly repudiated Bott’s remarks, saying, in a statement, that his views “absolutely do not represent the teachings and doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” and “We condemn racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church.” Given that Romney served as a missionary before the ban was officially lifted (in the late 1960s) and attended BYU in the late 1960s and early 1970s, it’s not beyond the pale to probe his thoughts on this issue, particularly because Mormons across the country are talking about it.

It’s not a gotcha question. Romney could go a long way toward humanizing the Romney-bot if he could explain whether he ever contested the LDS ban, in place until 1978, on African-Americans serving in the priesthood, and whether, if true, the ban caused him qualms.

snip

In my perfect world, presidential candidates wouldn’t talk about their religion. They would practice it freely, but they would neither use it to prop up their candidacy nor use their opponents’ (real or fabricated) religion to bring them down. Lawmakers wouldn’t use religion to justify policy positions. And while I have no doubt that plenty of liberals are suspicious of Mormonism — either because of Proposition 8, the racism, the patriarchy, the extra-biblical revelations in upstate New York, the secrecy of the hierarchy, posthumous baptisms or from reading “Under the Banner of Heaven” or watching “Big Love” — it’s Romney’s own party that has imposed religious litmus tests on candidates.

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/08/what_we_should_ask_romney_about_mormonism/

[IcyPeas]

28. the lead singer of the rock group "The Killers" is Mormon

married to a Mormon. Seems like an unusual life style for a Mormon but I love The Killers.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2011/10/17/brandon_flowers_of_the_killers_i_m_a_mormon.html

[FreeState]

29. Agree 100%

And I say that as a former Mormon myself.

[Nye Bevan]

31. Out of curiosity, have you seen this site?

http://www.exmormon.org/

and is it really representative of the Mormon experience? As someone who knew nothing about Mormonism, I found it fascinating.

[FreeState]

79. I use to post there years ago

It was a springboard of people leaving, lots of bitter, lots of non bitter and good people. It's fairly accurate too,

[Arugula Latte]

41. It's the leadership--just like the Vatican--that is vile.

Yeah, sure there are nice Mormons and nice Catholics, but what is done in their names is VILE. The leadership could not continue to do their evil acts if they didn't have these nice-as-pie supporters who put their butts in the pews every week.

[Quantess]

42. I agree!

Although I have misgivings about the religion itself, mormons in general are delightful people.
Ex-mormons are some of my favorite people.

[HuckleB]

43. Get your red herring here! Red herring! Cheap!

[2ndAmForComputers]

44. Three words.

PROP. FUCKING. EIGHT.

They earned the bashing, Romney or no Romney.

[unkachuck]

46. are you suggesting....

....slick-willard, the rich wall-street Mormon, is an asshole?

....we must inject Mormons into the slick-willard mix if only to remind god-pukes and baggers that they dislike like Mormons....think of it as a public service....

"...they were among the kindest people you will ever meet..."

....not including Mountain Meadows Massacre participants, of course.

[libodem]

48. Have to agree

Pre-judging isn't a particularly liberal value, in my neck of the woods.

[Bluenorthwest]

49. Prop H8. Brought to you b your good friends, the kindest people of all!

"My tables—meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain—
At least I am sure it may be so in Denmark."
Hamlet o' Shakespeare

[scheming daemons]

51. Mormons, like every other religious group on this planet, are members of a cult

...and they live their lives controlled by mythology and superstition.


Mormonism is a cult. But so is every religion on the planet.

[sadbear]

53. Some religions are social clubs, too.

They're not all cults. But I don't think LDS is a social club.

[onenote]

64. Jimmy Carter, MLK Jr. and the Kennedys: cultists controlled by myth and superstition!!

That's the ticket.

[RebelOne]

54. There is no way that I would bash Mormons.

I don't care what religion Romney is, I just think he is a total fake.

[hedgehog]

61. Mormons, like everyone else, should be treated as individuals.

[snooper2]

62. No, he is just a little more dated and ignorant believing in any type of sky being...

The basic premise of all religions are the same, and they are still just really just mythology. The fact that religions argue between each other that my god uses a blackberry and yours uses an android is meaningless LOL

[onenote]

63. I would love to put you in a room with Martin Luther King Jr., Jimmy Carter,

John, Robert, and Teddy Kennedy so you can explain to them how stupid they are.

[snooper2]

65. I would love the opportunity too!

Maybe I can change a few more minds while my tiny spec of a life in this universe still exists LOL


I tend to give obviously intelligent folks the benifit of the doubt and either they are pandering, just trying to be "one of the crowd" or don't want to rock the boat. Some folks figure no sense in pissing off millions of people who believe a being up in the sky can strike you down with a bolt of lightening

[NNN0LHI]

66. Depends on what you consider bashing

For example do you expect us to ignore their recent racist history? Give them a pass on that? Would you consider discussing that bashing?

I have more examples but what about that one?

Don

[Safetykitten]

71. You obviously do not live in an area with many Mormons.

You obviously do not have any gay friends.

You obviously do not work in an environment where Mormons are the majority.

You obviously have no relatives that converted to Mormonism.

You obviously do not "get" the whole Mormon thing.

But your son has a cool Mormon teacher.

People like you that will defend a religious group that launched Prop 8 are the definition of a lazy liberal.

[EFerrari]

72. To be fair, they did it in cahoots with their buddy, the Archbishop in San Francisco

who worked in Salt Lake before he was inflicted on us.

[Zorra]

73. Everyone has a right to believe what they want, no matter how completely insane it is.

And, in my worldview, what Mormons believe in is completely off the charts loony toons.

How could I possibly not have reservations about the sanity of someone that believes in the doctrines of the LDS organization and belongs to this organization?

However, it is true that some of Mormons are kind, and a few of them actually opposed the LDS organizational funding, sponsorship, and promotion of Prop 8.

At the same time, there's no way I want someone that belongs to this, what I personally perceive to be a dangerous and destructive cult, as the leader of my country. In fact, to me, any interpersonal relationships I have with Mormons are contingent upon my knowledge that Mormon individuals believe in something completely nuts (IMO), and necessarily leads me to suspect any interaction I have with anyone that belongs to this organization.

And what this organization so cruelly did to my LGBT community is hard to forget. I would think that any decent human being, upon observing the actions of the LDS organization in promoting and funding Proposition 8, would completely sever all ties with such an organization.

[cynatnite]

77. I've got two words for you...MAGIC UNDERWEAR.

Well, I'll add a few more words. Mormonism is more fucked up than the average religion. I've lived in an area predominantly Mormon and let me tell you that if you are not Mormon, you are on the low end of spectrum. They will not give you the time of day unless you are a Mormon.

Now, I'm an atheist and I have little use for religion as a whole. I find it violent and intolerant. I would advise you to keep in mind that you cannot separate a person from their religion. That's an impossibility.

[Bruce Wayne]

78. When I'm recklessly careening down the street in my Masarati...

I try to avoid hitting pedestrians. But I'm extra especially careful not to hit Mormon pedestrians, just because of how nice they are. Seems such a shame.

On the other hand, most of them come from big families, so maybe there's less of a chance of killing a family's only child with them. So maybe I'm worrying about nothing.