General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStand Your Ground Laws is about making money for Gun Manufacturers!
These Laws are being passed with one sole purpose and that is to make money for gun Manufacturers.
They are basically nonsencical laws that put lives at risk.
The sole purpose of these laws is to make money for companies that feed off of fear and hate!
Gun buyers swamped retailers nationwide last year, prompting a record 16.4 million instant criminal background checks of potential owners, up 14.2 percent from 2010, according to FBI figures. While some buyers may not have followed through with gun purchases or may have been denied, others bought more than one, so background checks are considered a good proxy for sales in the industry.
Link
Relaxed gun laws are likely a factor behind the boom in sales, although not the only reason and perhaps not the primary one, industry experts say
The NRA heavily lobbied the Florida legislature for the bill. Their chief Florida lobbyist, Marion Hammer, called the measure the groups top priority for the year.
Link
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)gun manufacturing corporations worldwide.
And they are the right hand of the Republicans.
Which is why the asshole who sponsored the murderers-go-free law in Florida, was a Republican.
TNLib
(1,819 posts)nt
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)belcffub
(595 posts)yeah I am betting the NRA as safe houses all over the place just in case stuff like this happens... they also snuck into my house and cut the mattress tags off...
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)belcffub
(595 posts)the fact that you think it is some sort of a cult or something is absurd... do you think there is a secret handshake... maybe a branding... oh I bet it is a branding...
I am a gun owner... I am active on one of the largest gun board outs there... before I read the story on DU someone posted the story... the subject line was "Looks like a bad shoot"... many gun owners said it looked like zimmerman was in the wrong right out of the gate... but you could have picked up that discussion and dropped it here and you would not know the difference...
when people here start posting about the mythical boogyman that is the NRA (I hear they live under bridges and steal you baby) we sound like the freepers... worse because we claim to be superior... we claim they are mentally challenged then give them credit for schemes that Lex Luthor would be proud of... aburd... and we should be better...
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Let me assure you, I do.
All gun lovers I know are in love with their guns. They're pretty scary. They generally get a 'look' when they discuss their guns. It's not a pretty sight.
belcffub
(595 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 26, 2012, 07:14 AM - Edit history (1)
I know hundreds of gun owners... doctors, teachers, social workers... people from all walks of life... men and women... blacks, asians and whites ( I don't know any hispanic gun owners personally but I bet they exist)... heck our local high school has a shooting team... and I live in Liberal NY in an urban area... hoping to get my daughter on the team if she is interested...
this past hunting season she came out with me for the first time... I think she thought hunting was a bit more exciting then it was in reality... we will see if she want to go next year...
for many guns are a hobby... some are collectors who have hundreds of different guns and never shoot any of them... they are always looking to fill wholes in their collection... some are competitive shooters... could be skeet... trap... rifle or pistol... some are hunters... I know some old timers who buy their license every year... go out with their rifle and find a place to sit... but there is no ammo on them or their rifle... they just like the ritual of sitting in the woods during hunting season...
I am a gun person... as it is a hobby of mine I do like to talk about it... get me talking about any of my other hobbies... like tractor restoration or ham radio... atv... my off-grid cabin project... and I can talk for hours... because it interests me... if I think someone else is interested in it I can talk...
I see more crazy from some Dog and Cat people ( I have both by the way) then I have ever seen from gun people...
your posts sound like you are projecting your fears and paranoias on others. many anti-gun people seem to have a cult like group think going on... perhaps a mirror is needed for root out the cult like behavior
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)and if you bothered to understand the sickeningly high rate of gun murders in this country, you would see it differently.
But I can't expect gun lovers to even DESIRE to view reality.
belcffub
(595 posts)if you choose to let someone else kill your meet for you good for you... I take and butcher most of my meet... if I lived in a less urban area I would raise my own animals...
if you would see that our non-gun murder exceeds most non third world country... that if you removed every gun from the US we would still have one of the highest murder rates out there... that canada which has a similar gun owner percentage has a gun and non gun murder rate that is a small fraction of ours... maybe then you would see that it is not the tool used in the commission of the crime but the criminal...
I do see your point of view... I understand where you are coming from... I just have come to a different conclusion looking at the evidence...
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Thank you, Bob has some lovely parting gifts for you on the way out.
The next contestant is....
hack89
(39,171 posts)belcffub
(595 posts)and never killed any people... heck you would figure if that was their purpose someone I know would have killed someone with a gun by now...
The only person I know who killed anyone did it with his bare hands... I only meet him after he got out of jail... nice guy... probably a good idea not to piss him off... oh.. wait just remembered the lady in the basement of my building... DWI and leaving the scene... she did six months of weekends... didn't even loose her job... I won't be asking her for a ride anytime soon...
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)belcffub
(595 posts)back yard growing up, summer camp, indoor gun range near my house, trap place a friend belongs to, my cabin... lots of places...
heck I remember shooting trap with my dad in the sandpits (eastern MA) and a cop rolls in and asks what we are doing... we dad told him shooting some clay pidgins... cop asks if he can do a round... we have a picture around somewhere... good guy...
that was back in the 80's though... rules were different back then... I wouldn't do the same today and only shoot on land I own or ranges for the most part...
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)belcffub
(595 posts)sometimes I am practicing trigger control, malfunction clearing (put a snap cap in the mag), breathing and shooting on the rest, etc... then it's easier to concentrate on the task at hand if there is no target...
most of the time it is hitting a target though...
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)belcffub
(595 posts)not unlike a golfer... in both you are only really competing against yourself...
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)A golf club and a ball are not implements used for the murder of humans.
belcffub
(595 posts)Golf can be played against someone else... does not have to be...
The percentage of guns used as you describe is infinitely small... I know hundreds of gun owners... not a one has used one in such a manor... all of them hope to never need to use them in such a way... just as the golfer would hope to never have to use a golf club in such a way...
I am betting I could find a case where both a golf club and golf balls have been used to murder humans...
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)to the U.S. I once again had to get used to the high gun crime rate and beware of not going out alone at night, being extremely careful wherever I went, etc.
Guns have created this monstrous crime rate.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Comparing guns to bombs is a bs argument by the gun grabbers...
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)belcffub
(595 posts)I never said they weren't... up thread I actually said for some that is the whole reason they have them... our local high school's shooting team competes regularly... but for me, with the hobby portion of my gun ownership, it is just improvement of a craft... I have no desire to compete against others...
I also like to collect a bit... but it is a pretty expensive thing to collect so that takes time...
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)the American mentality and obsession with regard to guns is sick. In other countries with almost no gun crime, there's safety and people aren't obsessed with guns. They sure as hell are here. Obsessed isn't even the word. It's a psychosis of sorts.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)rather than discussing the substance of the argument at hand, I'll give you that...
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)An over and under shotgun is, almost without exception, used for either trap shooting or hunting. On the other hand, a Glock is designed for self defense.
Both of these being perfectly legitimate activities.
belcffub
(595 posts)Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,300 posts)they are "people" you know
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...if I chase down a corporation in a public street, attack it, and then kill the corporation with a gun, that it's Stand-Your-Ground and I get a presumption of self-defense for criminal/civil liability purposes?
arthritisR_US
(7,300 posts)exalted people
rrneck
(17,671 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...and have him test that theory on BP.
"I reasonably believed BP was going to cause be serious bodily harm or death."
rrneck
(17,671 posts)guns in cars at work. Be that as it may, I've always liked the image of a CEO looking out the windows of his corner office on the thirtieth floor at a sea of cars below wondering how many of them have AR15s in the trunk. Let them eat cake indeed...
msongs
(67,496 posts)like the guy who didnt like skateboarders around SO HE GOT OUT HIS GUN FIRST and went to argue with them. Naturally there were some objections to an armed thug coming out to start an argument and what do you know, somebody ended up shot dead by the armed thug who deliberately brought his gun.
flvegan
(64,425 posts)Back that assumption up.
Specifically, that said laws are all about making money for entities that manufacture guns. GO!
Don't disappoint.
TNLib
(1,819 posts)I thought it was a pretty good article that explained it.
Here' the link again.
MSNBC Link
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)of the law.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)SYG passed in Florida in 2005.
No, the legacy of Democrats as irrationally hating guns and willing to do or say anything to get them outlawed and out of the hands of the people is what drove the boom of gun sales, when combined with Obama's election to the presidency.
iverglas
(38,549 posts)I think you meant to say "right-wing lie", didn't you?
Normal, decent people don't actually accuse other people of "irrationally hating guns" or portray their political adversary as having done and wanting to do things they've never done and never indicated a desire to do. That's what the right wing does.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)If you're against gun for having a pistol grip, but have no problem with the exact same gun without a pistol grip, you're irrational. You're waging a war against the perceived mentality of the person who would prefer the pistol grip over the traditional straight grip.
iverglas
(38,549 posts)As a very long-time poster in the Guns forum, a former moderator (something that struck me as somewhat odd, that you would mod a forum where you were so actively engaged on one "side" and current host of the group, you have to be as aware as I am that using the word "irrational", let alone "irrational hatred", to refer to advocates of gun control measures was expressly prohibited in the past.
You claim that legislators - Democrats - who supported this particular measure (the "assault weapons ban" that outlawed firearms with certain combinations of characteristics -- a pistol grip alone not meeting the test) are irrational.
You know absolutely that there are arguments for that measure that do not begin to meet the standard for "irrational", let alone for your initial claim of "irrational hatred" of objects.
Under the former DU2 arrangements, discourses like yours were confined to the Guns forum, where at least minimal standards like I've described were enforced.
Now that we're all over GD with this stuff, it seems there are no standards at all.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)1.) Are you accusing me of bias? If no, then why even bring it up?
2.) Considering some of the terms that are being used to describe gun owners, I really do wish you would seek to apply your standards to your side of the argument.
I'm claiming that the reasons for the hatred is irrational, and that the reasons for the proposed legislation is irrational.
The perception of bias is what is important. And ordinarily, one would not put one's self in a position where there could be such a perception.
I haven't spent enough time consistently in the Guns forum reading everything posted there to know what you're referring to. My understanding was that a consensus was sought early at DU3 to rule out pejoratives referring to the other "side". If that isn't being followed, then I guess posters in that forum need to persuade jurors to uphold a better level of discourse.
As you know, I refer to the individuals and organizations waging the right-wing war on society on the firearms policy front as gun militants. I have no trouble identifying those entities in the public discourse and public events. If anyone who posts at DU matches their characteristics, they are welcome to self-identify. I do not characterize any particular individual who posts at DU as anything other than a DU poster.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Man, sometimes I miss being a mod and having all your deleted posts at my fingertips.
Of course, it would be inappropriate to browse through them and publicly or privately draw them to your attention, but it would occupy me for a while.
iverglas
(38,549 posts)what weight I put on the deleting/hiding of posts, and what I think of both the moderation process and the jury process. Somebody else might think you have a case to make, but it holds no water for me.
There's always been a whole lot more than a perception of bias going on.
Not that it's always bias. Sometimes it's just utter failure.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)krispos42
(49,445 posts)NICS checks went up. Remember the paranoia? ARs going for $1,500 a copy, ammo hard to find, etc?
Obama's comin' fer yer guns!!!
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)It lasted 10 years.
In case anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, the federal "assault weapons" ban that expired in 2004 was a far more effective gun sales stimulant than any state SYG law could ever be.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)...over nebulous features tends to make people cranky, especially people that get suspicious of the government really really easy.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)where he was a gun dealer. In his narration, he said something like, "Last year (X number) of guns were sold in the world. That's one for every 12 person on the planet. My question is, 'How can we sell to the other 11?'" Should I use quotes for a paraphrase?
Yeah in capitalism it's ALL connected and it's ALL about money.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)iverglas
(38,549 posts)Household firearms ownership rates in the US have declined steadily for about 35 years. Hunting and sports shooting (with long guns) have become much less popular and significantly fewer people are involved in them, thus in buying guns for them. High crime rates 35 years ago coincided with the industry's need for new products/markets. Voilà: handguns for the masses. Fifty years ago, handguns were much rarer among the general public.
But it isn't just corporations. It's the broader right wing.
Occuping society's public spaces is very important to the right wing. Vulnerable groups and individuals have to be kept in that state, and especially must not get uppity and start making demands.
The whole free-speech thing starting a few years ago was one front in the war. Horowitz and that ilk. Retaking campuses from the liberals; battling the PC army and making them safe for bigoted speech of all varieties. Free speech as a weapon against the enemy.
Guns serve the same purpose. In fact, the guns on campus crusade mimics its "free speech" on campus predecessor. Funded by the right wing, used by the right wing as an organizing tool, carried out by intimidation tactics. Ditto for "concealed carry" (let alone "open carry" . Let them all know that the right wing is there, everywhere, and armed to the teeth. The guns are heavily symbolic of the power they wield over anybody they don't like.
The NRA, of course, is a fully integrated wing of the right wing. It's the symbolic infantry.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Actual statistics don't agree with "have declined steadily" part.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/gun-ownership-statistics-demographics/
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/self-reported-gun-ownership-highest-1993.aspx
iverglas
(38,549 posts)Maybe you missed my (and others') debunking of your pet Gallup poll back at DU2.
Here's my summary at DU3; see also DanTex's reply, quantifying my qualitative remarks:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11727368#post3
The Gallup poll is internally nonsensical and unreliable, and inconsistent with things like the General Social Survey, widely regarded as a reliable measure of USAmerican attitudes and practices.
Your other link is merely a regurgitation of the Gallup material (without any of Gallup's own caveats, as discussed by DanTex, of course). Nice try.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)"Household firearms ownership rates in the US have declined steadily for about 35 years."
TIA
iverglas
(38,549 posts)The General Social Survey. Feel free to look it up.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)49.1% indicated Yes for 1973, 34.5% for 2006.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Sorry to blow out the logic here, but this contradicts the notion that Stand Your Ground laws have anything to do with increasing sales of firearms.
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/dros_chart.pdf?
ileus
(15,396 posts)I've bought three and traded one.
Still want to get a pair of 22's for the kids, and a full sized M&P 40.....obama, syg, NRA...don't have anything to do with my buying habits.