The way to treat allies is to first find out if disruptors are plants

[malaise]

I hope apologies are forthcoming - we are better than that at DU.

[catnhatnh]

1. I'd want apologies too...

But I'm not even sure who the bad guys are. Certainly not the concept of Black Lives Matter. Certainly not Bernie Sanders. Certainly not those of good will.

Right now I cannot even be certain of just what happened or what motivated the main actors. It has caused so much damage it seems it almost must be deliberate.

I only know I am saddened for all those hurt.

[malaise]

2. +1,000 n/t

[MinM]

3. Yep.. Also DUers that want BLM to disavow this.

Who at #BlackLivesMatter is supposed to disavow this?

Is there a National spokesman? National chapter? National leader? Would they know who all their members were even in there was?

[brewens]

4. If BLM supporters that were excusing or defending these disruptors are appologizing now

that they realize they were stooges, I accept.

[hopemountain]

5. a constructive and progressive

suggestion for the sanders camp is to invite the 2 women and a few leaders from other black lives matter groups across the country to a talking circle - including bernie - and with a talking stick - not a microphone. preferably out of doors and sitting on the ground - not in chairs.

this is a powerful & respectful way to communicate and share one's truth.

[malaise]

6. Good suggestion

although I don't support any group taking over the mike at a meeting/rally/whatever that is not organized by that group

[hopemountain]

7. agreed.

but, this can be a healing moment. i have tremendous respect for bernie sanders and i know he gets the pain - no matter who funded these 2 women or their true intentions. we also heard the woman's rage. i know bernie sanders heard it and felt it. rage is not an excuse - but, their pain is at the root of it and it is being felt across the country. as a country, we cannot deny the pain any longer.

[jberryhill]

28. "but, their pain is at the root of it"

some people have mental illness which is not cured by talking to Bernie Sanders

[hootinholler]

40. Just wondering

Are there forms of mental illness that are cured by talking with Bernie?

[jberryhill]

41. Perhaps

If so, it would be great. This country could use a therapist.

[ljm2002]

8. The way it is looking...

...I would advise Bernie to steer clear of Marissa Johnson at all costs.

Her Facebook press release for BLM Seattle, posted yesterday:

https://www.facebook.com/BLMSeattle/posts/716844418437393

isn't getting much love.

[hopemountain]

10. an invitation is one thing

whether she would have the courage to show up for such a parlay - is another. thank you for the link.

[restorefreedom]

17. wow.

the fb comments are running at least 50:1 in support of bernie and against the disruptors.

great news for bernie, but blm took a couple of dings looks like

[HooptieWagon]

9. Why should the 2 women be invited?

They aren't interested in dialog. Marisa Johnson appears to be quite a piece of work, in fact. According to her page, she's a Palin supporter, and out to prove to the GOP they should have "groomed" her. A narcissistic loose cannon. Absolutely nothing can be gained by Bernie sitting down with them. He's got things well in hand with his new National Press Secretary, whom it appears will be a big asset.

[hopemountain]

12. this may be true -

but, there is no harm in a respectful invitation to a small gathering/parlay. perhaps respect is the very path to diffusion. the group must be small for the "talking" to be authentic. no press, no posers, no mics. no one should feel threatened in any way - not even bernie or his staff.

i like that his national press secretary is african american - but, it will not be sincere nor effective to put all of the peacemaking on her as his liaison - bernie must also be approachable and available.

[romanic]

13. Bernie is the more approachable canadidate

In fact, Symone Sanders (the press secretary) is well known with Coalition on Juvenile Justice where she serves as national youth chair and she is actively involved with BLM as well. If that isn't sincere I don't know what is.

[hopemountain]

14. agreed - but bernie's face and talk must

also be present and accounted. this is what i am saying. i am not saying she is insincere nor do i say bernie is not approachable. i know he is approachable. i am not saying she is not authentic, etc., etc., - i am solely indicating how things can be done in a good way for them to be accepted as sincere. sheesh.

[Katashi_itto]

24. Hell no. Giving a splinter group of BLM, a bunch of loose cannons

like that legitimacy by talking to them after that stunt?

[Facility Inspector]

35. Maybe they can light aromatherapy candles and sing Kumbaya

Nope, if that idiot gets within 500 yards of the US Senator, a team needs to make her bow down and arrest her.

[hopemountain]

37. so much hate. really?

there is nothing wrong with a peaceful resolution. i hand it to bernie for putting forth a thoughtful, realistic plan. take your hate and judgement elsewhere.

[Facility Inspector]

38. a person has to be worthy of respect

and earn it.

There's no hate involved.

From a security standpoint for a US Senator, of course.

[hopemountain]

42. a rule for survival is to

respect all things - living and what you may perceive as not living. give out what you expect in return, right?
respect can be dis-earned. yet, a leader does not extend disrespect. i cannot even imagine bernie disrespecting any black person.
to not extend respect to others via automatic judgement demonstrates weakness and fear.

respect is about extending and maintaining our own dignity, too. you expect others to respect your private property and personal belongings, yes? your freedom? your right to speak and express your opinions and to be heard? how about your children? pets? the natural world? pristine beauty?

as independent as we may believe ourselves to be, one never knows whom may come to one's aid during or following a life threatening situation or how a once pristine resource can dry out because humans did not respect the life process.

this is why "a person has to be worthy of respect" works against those who believe such a fallacy/illusion and either stems from or surely leads to a society of bigots, ignorance, hate, injustice, murders, and wars.

you may know some of what has been read or printed or reported about the young women you believe should be so disrespected by bernie, but you have not walked in her shoes. you know nothing, really. ignorance is not the way to build peace nor to heal a nation.

[roguevalley]

15. those two women need to stay away. they don't want to talk to anyone

anyone else, fine. those two stooges are a thief and a palin bot. they can go away.

[Doctor_J]

32. trying to make nice with people like Marisa Johnson is rarely useful

This woman has no desire to participate in a kumbaya circle, and Sanders should not honor her by reaching out. She is at fault here, not Bernie.

[LiberalAndProud]

39. Should they also pass the peace pipe?

The visual your scenario invokes is not flattering to either the women or to Bernie. Then again, it's all new agey and stuff.

[tabasco]

11. I've simply come to accept that there are a lot of stupid people in the world

I don't expect an apology from them.

[restorefreedom]

16. i agree with a lot here

except the idea of inviting the two disruptors. their behavior does not warrant them having a seat at a civil discussion, as they clearly are not interested in that. besides, i think they are gop operatives.

i do think that a continuing conversation with mainstream leaders would be good for bernie.

and i honestly don't think they would show up if invited. without an audience to rabble rouse, they would not be interested.

[Hekate]

18. Good point, malaise. But SO much damage has been done here....

I'm seeing people I love and respect bounced off the site, other folks circling the wagons, a great deal of anger and hurt flowing everywhere, but most especially in the AA Group.

A couple of weeks ago someone here was advocating for BLM to disrupt the rallies of specifically Democratic candidates and I pleaded with him to not even talk like that -- why not target the GOP? His answer was that they would not be listening anyhow, so don't even bother. It may be relevant that he later commented that he himself is white.

I was in college in the 1960s, and I'm a lot older now. After COINTELPRO, I seriously question the motives of anyone who engages in randomized disruption of people who would be allies in the social justice arena. There was nothing at all random about the activities of the great civil rights activists. Everything they did was thought out, planned, rehearsed, and planned some more. They did plenty of disruption, too.

I know there is incredible urgency in the BLM movement. There has to be. This country simply cannot go on this way.

[malaise]

20. Well the establishment has one aim - divide and rule

On the other hand change is urgent.
Still shaking my head re some of the responses. Some folks are gullible.
Time for damage control

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. I don't even know why they feel they have to continue to 'disrupt' first.

I strongly suspect that if they simply came to the campaigns and worked with them, they could get time onstage without having to demand that time. Do they feel that doing that would be 'selling out'? That it would somehow detract from their message if they actually simply arranged to give it in advance with those nominally in control of the stages? That time wasted arguing onstage with moderators is more useful than simply having that time to deliver their messages?

Note that I am not 'criticizing', I'm simply curious as to why they feel the current tactics are more effective than other tactics at achieving their goal.

[Kurska]

19. How bout all the people who defend them?

When are those apologies coming?

Apparently, a lot of people here genuinely agree with the actions of right wing stooges trying to drive a wedge between white and black for political gain.

[Skittles]

21. if they were plants, why are some DUers twisting themselves into pretzels defending them?

[Hekate]

22. I think there's deep existential pain involved for a lot of people, and they don't feel heard. nt

[Skittles]

23. I *KNOW* that is true

I don't understand how alienating and insulting allies helps in ANY way

[malaise]

25. Same here

[Skittles]

36. thanks malaise

it alarms me, because I can feel how badly this backfiring

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. 'Plant' implies more than Occam's Razor suggests.

No one on the right had to 'plant' anyone. Even if Marissa Jenae does lean Republican in her other political views, she's still black, and supporting Black Lives Matter makes sense for every black person. She personally seems to embrace an ideology that holds white liberals more in contempt than anyone else, but it looks like the only one who 'planted' her is herself. She's an activist, she wants to have Black Lives Matter protests, and she doesn't care for white liberals, so she chose a venue full of white liberals for one of her protests. It's all logical without even adding any outside 'plot'.

[Lee-Lee]

30. There really isn't any evidence she leans Republican

One post saying that she had a Palin button- assuming it wasn't worn in irony she would have been what, 15 or 16 during that election cycle?

Who is the same person after college they were when they were 15?

Other than that all we have are here religious posts- that doesn't prove anything. The hugely successful and very progressive Moral Monday movement here in NC is led by religious groups with a Reverand as its leader who is also a huge leader in the NAACP at the state and national level- religion doesn't belong to the right.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

31. And her statement that she felt the GOP should have 'groomed' her more.

Which would tend to lend credence to the notion that she actually was not being 'ironic' about her Palin button.

She sounds like she found various RW ideas attractive, but that the GOP itself didn't feel 'welcoming' enough to her as a black woman, so she went indie/dem, but not out of any great attraction to liberal ideas.

[joshcryer]

33. Importantly, no one in BLM has denounced her.

That's tacit approval.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

34. They've probably heard as little or as much about it as anyone else.

And given that she seems to be an ally, they're probably giving her more of a benefit of a doubt than other people are. Her anger and her frustration with progressives who fail to help address her problems are real and valid. We may not agree with her tactically or her choice of words, we may deplore the side effects of her choice of protests, but it is what it is, and the question going forward is what will change as a result?

I think there are a lot of people who want changes, but not a lot of people who know how to achieve those changes. I can make some suggestions, but I don't know if they're actually possible legislatively. For instance, I'd like to outlaw the use of chemical weaponry on domestic protests and forbid police departments to purchase or deploy things such as pepper spray or gas canisters. Would this be something able to be done on a city by city basis or at the state level? How do you write up the language? Get it onto ballots? Can you add criminal penalties for individuals who break that law, or is it strictly an administrative sort of thing? Can it be done as citizen initiatives, or does it have to go through legislatures?

I'm angry and frustrated too, but I think we need more than simply people taking over microphones on stages to tell other people I'm angry and frustrated. I just don't know how to actually get the changes done.

[Lee-Lee]

29. Has it actually been proven she is a plant

Or are those who desperately need her to be wrapping all that around a Facebook post saying she had a Palin button when she would have been 15-16 years old?