Paul Ryan says corporate tax cuts will "create more jobs and higher paying jobs"...

[kentuck]

Do you think that is true?

Will businesses take their tax breaks and invest it in more jobs and higher wages for their employees? I highly doubt that.

In my opinion, they would be more inclined to take those tax breaks and give them to their stockholders, or if it was a really large tax break, they might use it to invest in cheaper labor overseas, or they would invest in robots and technology to replace even more jobs.

I don't see a benefit in more taxcuts for the wealthy? Is there a benefit I am overlooking?

[benld74]

1. Oh Drivel! You twat!

[pat_k]

71. If Ryan said "the Sun goes around the Earth" would...

... reporters just transcribe as if could possibly be "true"?

His "trickle-down" claim is as easy to disprove as the claim "the Sun goes around the Earth."

In this "counter-factual" world, the number 1 job of the press needs to be evaluating claims against ACTUAL evidence.

We do NOT need "give both sides a platform" shit when one side is a claim pulled out of an ass, and the other side is a conclusion based on evidence.

[spanone]

2. republicans try this shit every time they get in power...it NEVER works.

on edit: trickle down economics....that's what they used to call it.

[IdiotsforPalin]

3. We've heard this lie before

lather, rinse, repeat

[smirkymonkey]

4. Does he really think we are going to fall for that bullshit again?

[RKP5637]

5. Yeah, this really worked out well with Reagan. More for the rich, less for the rest. n/t

[Lanius]

6. Yeah, yeah, we've heard it all before

and huge tax cuts have not created loads of higher-paying jobs. Companies take their extra money and give it to their CEOs.

[Angry Dragon]

7. Is he willing to put up his job and all his money to guarantee it??

trickle down

the wealthy pissing on the workers again

[coco22]

8. No.

Same old trickle down bullshit!

[RKP5637]

9. Republicanism is a disease. n/t

[Glitterati]

10. Ask Kansas!

Same shit, different day.

[chillfactor]

11. Recons always say that...

and of course we never see "more" good-paying jobs.

[guillaumeb]

12. I first heard this in 1980.

George H. W. Bush called it "voodoo-economics".

Under Reagan, the deficit and the debt increased enormously, the wealth of the 1% increased enormously, and everyone else lost ground.

Under Bush Jr., the same rationale was given for his tax cuts. And what happened under Reagan happened again.

So how exactly will the GOP change things to assure a different result?
Short answer: They will not. Their only goal is to enrich themselves and their owners.

[TCJ70]

13. This is trickle down crap and placing hope in business that, as you know, have always been...

...altruistic. It's not like we had to make laws banning child labor or anything.

[Eliot Rosewater]

14. Never have before, not ever.

[Cary]

15. "Supply-side economics" is to economics

What "creation science" is to science.

[J_William_Ryan]

16. Of course it's not true.

The ‘benefits’ of trickle-down economic dogma were proven long ago to be a myth.

Corporations use their tax cut windfall to enrich shareholders and investors, not to ‘expand’ and ‘create jobs.’

[moondust]

17. Sure.

Corporations are going to transform their profitability model because they don't have to send as much of their stashed billions to the IRS. Right.

[elfin]

18. He is stuck in the 80s - never grew up

Laffer curve and all that.

Time to GROW UP, Paulie.

We are global, we are complex. Simpletons are losers.

[handmade34]

19. No, tax cuts do not

create jobs... nor make us wealthier

There is no evidence in this chart to confirm that low taxes lead to prosperity. In contrast, higher taxes accompany higher incomes, not the other way around.

the Institute on Taxation and Economy Policy provides additional perspective. Researchers at this respected, progressive-leaning group looked at the net change in income from 2001 to 2010. They compared the nine states with the highest income tax against the nine states with the lowest income tax. The results, in the chart below, show that the states with the highest taxes actually had the strongest economies throughout a difficult decade.

There are no guarantees when it comes to taxes and economic development. But without abundant natural resources or heavy tourism or the generosity of a neighbor, no state in the United States has been able to sustain high prosperity without a robust tax base. The data speaks clearly on this point. Let's trust it.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/05/03/do-lower-taxes-create-jobs-lets-look-at-the-states

Reality:  A study by the President’s own Treasury Department confirmed the common-sense view shared by economists across the political spectrum:  cutting taxes decreases revenues. 

http://www.cbpp.org/research/tax-cuts-myths-and-realities

and many more statistics... trickle down does NOT WORK!!

[Eyeball_Kid]

32. Michael Moore's recent documentary, "Where to Invade Next", tells the true story. See it.

[handmade34]

42. yup

saw it the first day it was out

[diva77]

20. Instead of "trickle down" it should be called "feces avalanche" economics

[Phoenix61]

21. Repub myth

If you want to create jobs you have to create demand. Raising the minimum wage would give a lot of people that little bit extra that they would spend which would increase demand for all kinds of products and services. You don't hire more employees until you have to. Nobody manufactures items hoping they will sell. They produce items they believe there is a demand for based on data, not on a wish and a prayer, if they want to stay in business.

[JMCoast]

22. Voodoo Economics

per George HW Bush

[doc03]

23. Would you beleive the old trickle down theory. The Reagan and GWB taxcuts went

to bloated CEO salaries, stock buybacks, corporate takeovers, jobs in other countries and automation here.

[madokie]

24. GW bush called it what it was

and that is VOODOO economics. Raygun called it trickle down. raygun won, we lost.

No matter the name giving tax breaks to the rich and corporations only causes the taxes and services we the little people have to pay go up.

[tazkcmo]

25. No I do not.

Only tax cuts with strings attached (Do A get B) would work, imo.

[lpbk2713]

26. It's surprising how some people still fall for that line.

The (R)s have been using that line for ages and it still works for them. It doesn't happen but that doesn't keep them from using it because they have so much success with it among the mouth breathers.

[0rganism]

27. ultimately, only DEMAND for goods & services can create more & higher paying jobs

businesses are not welfare organizations. if a potential employer could afford to hire another 10 people thanks to tax breaks (yeah just assume it's the case for the sake of the example) that doesn't at all mean that they could or would do so. the expanding demand has to exist for those people to provide the goods and services of the business in question or else the jobs are ... what? more people to produce the same output? perhaps, if there's gain from hiring an exceptionally qualified applicant, but definitely not for higher wages. that's just not how it works. if the business were already too understaffed to meet demand, there would be a problem with the business model that tax cuts alone are unlikely to resolve.

otoh, if a lot of people have more disposable income to use domestically, their ability to purchase goods & services increases, increasing demand and stimulating the economy.

this is part of why raising the minimum wage is a really good idea for everyone and public works projects are a net gain for local economies, whereas "trickle down" from tax breaks helps hardly anyone outside the owning class.

[RDANGELO]

28. Yes, they will create more jobs in China and Mexico,

and increase income inequality in the US.

[Eyeball_Kid]

29. Haven't some of us fallen for that line before? This is an OLD CONN. It's the old Trickle-down

dressed up with a smile and a glisten.

So go ahead, Fanboys. Believe this lying son of a bitch. You'll get a short term buzz for sticking it to the "welfare state", whatever that is, but what's really happening is that Ryan is coming after YOUR LUNCH. He thinks you deserve a lard sandwich and he'll sing the praises of pig runoff. Meanwhile, the second you buy his pitch is the second you just fucked yourself.

[joet67]

30. I thought that's what the very first Bush tax cut was supposed to do. (The "temporary" one that

was supposed to sunset in 2005 or 2006, but kept getting extended). Wouldn't the tepid economy they rail against be prima facia evidence that tax cuts don't do what he claims? (Rhetorical. I already know the answer).

[Nwgirl503]

31. I'd say something about people learning from history

But if this election has taught me anything, it's that that kind of optimism about Republican supporters is a dog that just won't hunt.

[heather blossom]

33. This hasn't worked in the past

Why will it work now? We don't have to look too far back, just look what the Bush tax cuts and loose regulations brought us.

[lame54]

36. And Kansas

[kairos12]

34. Yeah that happened when Shrub did it.

[lame54]

35. This is not a theory...

It's been tried and it failed

Check out Kansas

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

37. I think Ryan's Randian objectivism or trickle-down economics or whatever you call it

is more like a religion than a political principle. He believes tax cuts create jobs just like Christians believe Jesus rose from the dead. He can't definitively prove that any more than Christians can definitively prove that the Resurrection really happened; in both cases it's a matter of faith. Notwithstanding actual evidence to the contrary, Ryan thinks his is for real and that cutting taxes creates job. While traditional religion isn't usually a problem for nonbelieving people as long as it's kept out of government (of course, that's a whole 'nother issue), Ryan wants to impose his economic religion on the whole country, even though there's ample evidence that it doesn't work (in contrast, Christians might more credibly argue that there's no solid evidence that Jesus didn't rise from the dead).

The reason Ryanism doesn't work is this: If you are a manufacturer of widgets, you will make as many as you have a market for, and you will price them in accordance with demand. If there is a high demand for your product you can charge more for it. If you can't keep up with demand, you can raise your price enough to hire more workers to satisfy the demand and you can still make a profit. If the government cuts your taxes, you won't hire more workers unless you have enough demand to make it reasonable to hire more people. Paying workers to make widgets that can't be sold, or paying them to sit around and not make widgets, is stupid. So you'll just put the tax cut in your pocket. If the extra money from the tax cut enables you to buy more equipment or build another plant, you still won't do better unless you have enough demand to justify those expenditures.

When Ryan is asked why corporate taxes should be cut he just blathers about job creation. I wish someone would ask him exactly how that is supposed to work. Or is it just his religion?

[Solly Mack]

38. Are these fuckers suckled on trickle down?

Baseball, apple pie, and trickle down?

The ABC blocks they played with as children contained only 11 blocks to spell out trickle down?

Did their bedtime stories start with "Once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there was trickle down and happy bankers"?

Do their bibles start with, "In the beginning, there was trickle down"?

Seriously! WTF!

[beachbum bob]

39. never has...

[retread]

40. I thought he was a deficit hawk? Oh wait, that's only when a Democrat is President.

[rurallib]

43. Remember the Laffer Curve - lower taxes on corporations higher revenue

http://constantinereport.com/the-laffer-curve-in-real-life-2/

[jeanmarc]

41. Companies have been sitting on large cash amounts forever.

And they'll continue to. I did see a tax incentive that actually worked by Ontario. They would give something like 10k for any new job hired in Ontario. It had to be for a certain amount of time and it could be consultant. Our company used that quite a bit as it reduced the cost of labor. We were telling people from other countries to work in Ontario.

[milestogo]

44. Paul Ryan is a lying sonuvabitch

[Freethinker65]

45. True. The tax cuts will create a few more high paying lobbyist jobs. Lobbying for more tax cuts

[Adrahil]

46. Of course not....

Without corresponding increases in capital gains taxes, and taxes on dividends, this is just another way to shunt wealth to the wealthy. And the rubes will happily plonk down their cash.

[bdamomma]

47. Ryan can eff off

after that live mic incidence. He is no good too.

Ryan and McConnell are in this together. SOB's

[bdamomma]

48. hey Ryan have a townhall

and say that in person or are you going to flee your constituents too, you bunch of cowards!!!!!

[okieinpain]

49. oklahoma reporting in. gov fallin cut corporate taxes

which lead to creating a large state deficit. now that we have a large deficit she is raising taxes on everything but those corporate tax cuts are still in effect. oh by the way haven't seen much in the way of high paying jobs. it's going to be really hard for folks around here to understand $60/barrel oil is probably not coming back unless the US attacks nato and the middle east.

[Soxfan58]

50. Like it did last time?

And the time before that. History's against you Speaker Ryan

[LisaM]

51. Oh, like they always do?

[myrna minx]

52. Why don't you have a townhall to see how folks feel about your

Family destroying ideas.

[Buns_of_Fire]

53. I almost hope that he's just being cynical as hell and lying through his teeth.

I hate to think anyone in a position of power is that f**king stupid.

On the other hand, Louie Gohmert is still in Congress, so I suppose I should start facing reality.

[unblock]

54. tax cuts aren't even designed to create jobs:

to give a company an incentive to hire, you have to make a non-profitable hire profitable.

tax cuts don't do that. what they do is, if a hire is profitable, then the company can keep more of it.

so, it makes a boss happier if he makes a profitable hire, but it doesn't change anyone's mind about whether or not to hire in the first place.


in fact, if anything, it discourages hiring, because if the hire is questionably profitable, low taxes make it riskier. low tax rates also mean a lower deduction in case the hire turns out to cause a loss. so a hire is a riskier proposition when rates are low, safer when rates are high.

[democratisphere]

55. The wealthy will be made wealthier and the masses will pay for it out of pocket.

I see little hope for America as republiCONs can do tremendous damage in the next 2-4 years leaving our economy and financial system in a shambles.

[agenasolva]

56. WTF. We need to be raising corporate taxes. Now lowering them. This is insane.

[TexasBushwhacker]

57. The only thing that creates more jobs is DEMAND

When demand goes up for a company's goods, they may decide to expand or risk losing market share to a competitor.

The only thing that makes salaries go up is a shortage of quality workers.

When demand doesn't go up, companies sock away their extra funds in a bank, pay fat bonuses to the upper ranks, or do stock buybacks to pump up their share price (which also benefits the higher ups.

Want to increase demand? RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE. When people have more money in their pockets they spend it! Amazing!

[Caliman73]

58. Not true. Not even a little bit.

Republicans are one of two things, or both. They are fundamentally cynical liars and/or they have a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.

Demand dives growth in companies. Demand.

Why would a company invest in growth of their labor force without a subsequent growth in customer demand? If you own a shoe company or a furniture store, or a car company, why would you create a new line, buy more inventory, or build a new factory without more people buying the product? Unsold product is a loss. Paying people more money without subsequent increase in demand to cover that increase in pay, is loss.

Tax cuts for the middle class and working class might create more demand if more money is in our pockets, but tax cuts exclusively for corporations and the wealthy never do. They just create more wealth for the corporations and the wealthy.

[SHRED]

59. Demand for product creates jobs

Corporations have enjoyed record profits for decades now.
Where are the good jobs?

[malaise]

60. How much more empirical evidence does that fool need?

[Wounded Bear]

61. Wasn't true under Reagan, wasn't true under Bush II...

won't be true this time.

[leftyladyfrommo]

62. Welcome to Kansas.

And a massive budget deficit.

[OnionPatch]

63. They just won't stop with the trickle down BS

I guess it's because too many people keep falling for it.

[sarcasmo]

64. Ship of fools.

Reagenomics doesn't work.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

65. Higher paying jobs AKA CEOs

The rest of us won't get shit.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

66. No...it's all about supply and demand

No businesses are going to create jobs unless they NEED to create them in order to deliver more goods or services due to a growth in demand.

The only way more jobs get created is when more money is in the pockets of consumers. If I were in charge instead of giving outright tax breaks to businesses I would raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. For companies with under 100 employees I would enact a wage subsidy so the small business paid $10 and hour and the subsidy covered the other $5 IF the employee worked full time. For larger businesses if they don't offer employees full time hours they would have to pay the difference between what the employee is paid and what they would be paid at $15 for 40 hours a week. This money could go into the wage subsidy pool for smaller businesses to use.

This would ensure that all workers could get one full time job at a wage that will allow them to not only pay their bills but also spend some money on goods and services that would boost the economy. I'd also get high speed internet in rural areas and give perks to large companies that create virtual work at home positions for those areas.

That's how I would approach the economy/employment. No need for tax breaks...people need to earn more so they spend more. Businesses only make more jobs when there is a higher demand of whatever they are selling. No exceptions. Supply.and.Demand. Economics 101. Nothing good ever "trickles" down.

[Blue_true]

67. Yeah, like in Kansas, Oklahoma and Louisiana

Failed states, but Louisiana is trying to turn around with a Democrat leading the state.

[TheFrenchRazor]

68. well, the rich pay less taxes than ever, and jobs pay less than ever; the correlation is obvious.

[Skittles]

69. this trickle-down bullshit is only bought by the same kind of idiots who voted for Trump

seriously

[pat_k]

70. We know they won't because they NEVER have.

The effect of "trickle-down" tax cutting is a big sucking sound.

The sound of wealth being sucked from the bottom to the top.

The accumulation of data couldn't be clearer (actual historical data, not the non-existent data DT "calls the shots" on).

I will NEVER understand how any journalist worth their salt can allow such easily disprovable claims to go unchallenged.

This is not OPINION. This is not "two sides." This is "Earth goes around the sun" vs. "Sun goes around the earth" stuff.

Paul Ryan is saying the Sun goes around the Earth. And "reporters" just transcribe.

Is it any wonder we are where we are?

[SticksnStones]

72. How trickle down economics really work:

[haele]

73. Taxes have almost nothing to do with hiring.

Unless the company is on a shoestring budget - and only small business start-ups (where it's only family members or two/three partners in the business) fall into that category.
Business will hire the people they need to do the work at the time. You're not going to hire more people than you need, especially if the economy won't support make-work jobs. My BiL the small-town manager of a regional bank is not going to hire more tellers if they get a tax break and fewer regulations...

Haele

[ProfessorGAC]

74. If True, Why Didn't It Work. . .

. . .between 1984 and 1990, and then again between 2001 and 2009? All Paulie has to do is explain 15 of the last 35 years when that was the method, and then we can have a discussion. In the meantime, elevated tax levels on the wealthiest translated to massive growth in the 90's and the dreaded "regulatory state" pulled us from near depression the last 8 years.

Trying it for 15 years didn't work, and doing the opposite of what they want did for 16.

Of course, i don't figure Paulie can do the arithmetic.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

75. Rocky and Bullwinkle

the philosophy of cartoons

[workinclasszero]

76. Trickle down bullshit!

It's been proven time after time that it does not do shit for anyone but the rich bastards that receive it!

Fuck Ryan that Randian disciple jerk off!

[The_Voice_of_Reason]

77. Reagan made much the same promise...

His tax cuts for the rich/trickle down theory did not work out very well for most of us. Guess the rednecks did not learn their lesson first time around, so we get to repeat history for their learning curve.

[Cosmocat]

78. How many fucking times do we have to do this song and dance

The god damned market and corporate profits already are at all time highs, and it is pretty much all predicated on wage suppression and taking jobs oversees.

But, sure give them more with no contract for any return on it, THAT will happen.

[Febstars]

79. Taxes create jobs.

I've been in business years now (two corporations). The only thing less taxation does is put money in the pockets of the wealthy.

Taxation forces money to move. I hate taxes as much as the next gay or gal. When faced with taxation due to profits or high revenue, every CPA I have ever had tells me to spend. Buy fixed assets for the write off, hire folks, etc. EVERY TIME.

Taxes move money. A lack of taxation keeps it stagnant and results in hoarding of wealth.

[fleabiscuit]

92. Welcome to DU. nt

[Febstars]

93. Thanks so much!

[Maeve]

80. How many times does this have to be disproved?

First, there is the disaster that is the Kansas economy. Then Kasich in Ohio cut state taxes and the employment rate increase has consistantly been lower than the national average (the last time we beat the average was the year BEFORE he took office). Other examples are available (including, I think, Ryan's own HOME STATE)---how many times?

[WePurrsevere]

81. "Money is like manure;

it's not worth a thing unless it's spread around encouraging young things to grow.”

The thing about manure is you need to get it down to where the roots can be nourished. When you feed the roots you'll have much healthier crops to feed your whole family.

When you 'trickle down' you just end up burning the plants and roots so they can't grow.

[Febstars]

82. Yes!

Amen!

[WePurrsevere]

85. Hi & welcome to DU.

[Febstars]

89. Hi! Thank you!

Been reading for years. Big fan. ❤

[Maeve]

87. Just rewatched that on Netflix

Ah, Dolly!

[WePurrsevere]

96. I'm envious. :-) It's one of my favorite musicals and that quote...

has been one of my lifelong philosophies since I first saw the movie at a drive-in with my parents.

[miyazaki]

83. Tinkle down economics. n/t

[SamKnause]

84. Paul Ryan is a liar.

Republicans are liars.

Fuck Trump !!!!

Fuck Ryan !!!!

Fuck Republicans !!!!

They are EVIL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVIL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dlk]

86. Take a Look at Kansas

It's interesting that governor Sam Brownback's massive Tea Party experiment in the State of Kansas doesn't receive more media attention. Perhaps it's because his massive tax cuts have decimated the economy there, as well as put schools, infrastructure, etc. in crisis. Trickle down economics has always been a scam.

[SammyWinstonJack]

88. This time it's really gonna work, we promise.

[Vinca]

90. This is the same old GOP song and dance.

The stuff trickling down to average workers isn't money. This has been disproven time and time again.

[HughBeaumont]

91. Bullshit.

Bullshit.

Bullshit.

Bullshit.

Bullshit.

Unbelievable bullshit.

[Ilsa]

94. Lie & steal, lie & steal.

My response to tax & spend and other bullshit gop memes.

[JHan]

95. Ryan is overstating the benefits but I always agreed with Obama wanting to drop it to 28%..

.. or even lower, which would keep our rate in line with our trade partners - like Canada and Western Europe- and would help prevent tax inversions - which is a serious problem - thereby increasing tax revenue (*EDIT - because there's less incentive to go overseas)

Ryan should not assume that any gains made from a tax break will automatically result in job creation. A company may decide to invest more in automation/mechanization or streamline their operations, using technology, which would reduce jobs or just decide to pay out extra profits in dividends to shareholders.