Ukraine Latest: US Is Poised to Send Patriot Defense Batteries

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Source: Bloomberg

(Bloomberg) -- The US is poised to send Patriot air and missile defense batteries to Ukraine pending final approval from President Joe Biden, two US officials said.

European Union nations reached a preliminary agreement to clear the way for Ukraine to receive aid from the bloc valued at €18 billion ($19 billion) while Emmanuel Macron announced a commitment of 1 billion euros of donations from a delegation of some 70 governments and international bodies to help the country through the winter.

The funds will go toward fixing energy infrastructure, transport, health, water and food, the French president said after hosting an international donors’ conference in Paris.

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-latest-us-is-poised-to-send-patriot-defense-batteries/ar-AA15d5Np

[ColinC]

1. MIC needs to start stepping things up

If they run out of these in the Ukraine sitch, Russia or China could see an opportunity to take advantage.

[FredGarvin]

2. Is this satire?

[ColinC]

3. No.

Either the MIC be actually used for its purpose and produce, or we step up and drain the enormous swamp that keeps it from doing so. I doubt the latter and the former equally.

[FredGarvin]

4. You do understand that there are many thousands of Patriot missiles in service

Sending a few hundred scratches the supply as the tooling is in place and most likely will be ramped up if deliveries are more than a few dozen

[ColinC]

6. Good news

Thanks!

[Lonestarblue]

5. About time. They needed these months ago. It's obvious that Putin will not give up until he

is forced to do so. He doesn’t care if no Ukrainian is left alive and no city left standing. He simply wants Ukraine for his new Soviet Empire. People in small Moldova should be shaking in their shoes because if Putin is successful in Ukraine, he will never stop invading former Soviet territories.

[Emrys]

7. As defensive weapons, I'd class these as humanitarian aid. n/t

[TomSlick]

8. This should be an easy call.

The Russians are targeting civilians. They MUST be given the means to protect themselves.

[womanofthehills]

11. I don't know much about anti missile systems but I

Am interested in them as I live just north of White Sands where we are testing two missle systems working together- the Patriot and the Terminal High Altitude Area Defence System. “U.S. military officials are claiming success with a recent exercise involving two separate weapons systems working together.”


But sounds like Patriot missles are too expensive to use against drones says a retired marine corp reserves colonel


“Over the years the Patriot system and missiles have been continually modified. The current interceptor missile for the Patriot system costs approximately $4 million per round and the launchers cost about $10 million each, CSIS reported in its July missile defense report. At that price, it’s not cost effective or optimal to use the Patriot to shoot down the far smaller and dramatically cheaper Iranian drones that Russia has been buying and using in Ukraine.

“Firing a million-dollar missile at a $50,000 drone is a losing proposition,” said Mark Cancian, a retired Marine Corps reserves colonel and senior adviser at CSIS.”

https://fortune.com/2022/12/15/patriot-missile-defense-systems-what-they-are-and-what-they-do/

[TomSlick]

12. I'm not sure it's a simple accounting problem.

The damage the Russian drones are doing cannot be measured in money. The Russians are targeting civilians and the civilian power infrastructure. If the power infrastructure cannot be protected, thousands will freeze.

How many Ukrainians must be saved to justify the cost of a Patriot missile?

Russia has been targeting civilians since the beginning of the invasion. Targeting civilians is a war crime. The US and the west have feared to intervene because Putin has nukes. If the US will not intervene to stop Russian war crimes, it has little choice but to provide Ukraine defensive weapons to defend itself.

[womanofthehills]

13. Its not black & white - wish it was

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39277940

However, Gen Perkins suggested deploying large surface-to-air missiles as a defence was probably not economically wise.
"I'm not sure that's a good economic exchange ratio," he told an audience at the Association of the United States Army's Global Force symposium in Alabama.

"In fact, if I'm the enemy, I'm thinking, 'Hey, I'm just gonna get on eBay and buy as many of these $300 quadcopters as I can and expend all the Patriot missiles out there'."

Later in article:

Mr Bronk also told the BBC that Patriot radar systems, while sophisticated, might struggle to target a small quadcopter effectively.

[TomSlick]

14. General Perkins is using the green eye shade approach to war.

When a Russian missile or drone is headed for a civilian population center or power plant, it really doesn't matter how much the incoming weapon cost. It simply needs to be shot down. I'm prepared to assume that if a cheap weapon was headed for General Perkins location - or that of his family - he would not be concerned about the cost of the weapon used to stop it.

[womanofthehills]

16. Basically- you are missing the point

When it comes to drones, there are other air defenses that are better. Patriot is great, but not for drones,


The National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System is a medium-range air-defense weapon that is effective against aircraft, helicopters, drones, and even slow-flying cruise missiles.

On November 10, the US announced it is sending four Avenger short-range air-defense systems to help Ukraine protect its "troops and critical infrastructure" against drones and helicopters.

Plus the Italian Aspide, the German IRIS-T, and various others from other European countries.

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-are-giving-ukraine-air-defenses-for-russian-missiles-drones-2022-11?op=1

[XorXor]

17. Is there any reason to assume they'd use them on $300 drones unless

the drone was a major risk to some sort of high value target? They have lots of MANPADS and other cheaper anti-air to use on drones in most cases. I'd figure these patriots will mostly be used to target cruise missiles and larger serious threats.

[TomSlick]

18. The NASAMS is Norwegian. The Aspide is Italian. The ISIS-T is German.

The US has no control over what other countries will, or will not, do. The question is whether the US is willing to provide the Ukrainians the means to defend themselves from genocide.

If the equation is a matter of the cost of the weapon expended exceeding the value of the weapon destroyed, perhaps equipping the Ukrainians with Patriots is a bad idea. If the equation is a matter of the value of human life, then the Patriots is a good idea. Perhaps, the question really is the dollar value of a Ukrainian life.

[Martin68]

9. The West played this like mature adults handling unruly kids. Putin wanted an excuse to go

nuclear, and the West just wouldn't play that game. Then he mercilessly bombed Ukraine's civilian infrastructure to bring them to their knees when winter froze the land. NATO needs no permission to defend Ukraine from war crimes and ceaseless attacks on civilians. Putin knows if he plays the nuclear card now he is history.

[FakeNoose]

15. +1000

Totally agree, plus the fact that P is probably dying. (Nobody will say it yet.)

At this point if Ukraine can hang in there through the winter, this whole thing is over. Any defensive help we can give them is well deserved and for the good guys. (NATO)

[Kennah]

10. We still need to provide Putin an exit ramp, other the Kerch Bridge, to avoid Armageddon

[mahina]

19. What would some of those options look like?

For example?
Thanks

[Kennah]

20. Depends how desperate he is

If he wants to flee to a non-extradition country, let him.

If he agrees to get outta Ukraine back to 1991 borders, let him and let him stay in power.

The Israelis whacked Herberts Cukurs Uruguay with a heckuva lot less technical capabilities than many countries have today. If he ends up in Venezuela, I predict he'll fall out a window. That's the poetic end.

If he's in Russia, I say he'll be toppled.

[XorXor]

21. What's up with codepink and other western "anti-war" organizations?

They seem to be in support of Russia and opposed to Ukraine. I can't seem to find much from them demanding that Russia stop firing missiles into Ukraine.

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