Minnesota's 21-year age minimum for handgun carry permits struck down

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - A federal judge on Friday struck down a Minnesota law requiring a person to be at least 21 before obtaining a permit to carry a handgun in public, finding it violated the right to bear arms under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

The order by U.S. District Judge Katherine Menendez in St. Paul is the latest in a series of legal defeats for state gun control measures following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling last year expanding gun rights nationwide.

The state's 21-year age minimum, enacted as part of a 2003 gun control law, had been challenged in a 2021 lawsuit by three gun rights groups - Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus, Firearms Policy Coalition and Second Amendment Foundation - and three individuals.

"This is a resounding victory for 18- to 20-year-old adults who wish to exercise their Constitutional right to bear arms," Bryan Strawser, chair of Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus, said in a statement.

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/minnesotas-21-age-minimum-handgun-181746384.html

[bahboo]

1. fuck this.....this country is fucking insane with gun worship...

[Skittles]

51. lots of cowards in the "home of the brave"

yup

[msongs]

2. no age restrictions in 2A - toddlers, elementary students, teens, all can carry assault rifles nt

[no_hypocrisy]

24. Exactly. Real guns, not toy guns.

[Celerity]

44. Now now, don't age discriminate.

[cstanleytech]

3. What about age of consent laws or the age limit to purchase and drink alcohol? Should they be struck

down as well?

[MichMan]

7. I don't recall those being in the Bill of Rights....

[cstanleytech]

8. I dont recall corporations having the right to free speech being in there either but SCOTUS

said otherwise.

[MichMan]

10. Perhaps someone in power should lead the charge to repeal both the 1st and 2nd amendments

[cstanleytech]

16. Or perhaps the Courts should show more common sense.

[f_townsend]

12. Do you recall the words "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state"?

Central to the requirement that the well-regulated state militias be regulated was the requirement that each militiaman be trained in the use of weapons. And central to having the Constitutional "right to keep arms" was the requirement a militia-aged man be a member of a well-regulated state militia.

Not participating in one's well-regulated state militia = no Constitutional right to own/keep arms. This was said as such by the First Congress during the Bill of Rights debates.

[MichMan]

13. Regardless, there is nothing at all with age of consent or drinking alcohol

In the Bill of Rights, which was the post I replied to.

[lostnfound]

19. Such a happy decent country where 18 year olds can slaughter their former classmates

Oooh bill of riiiiiights

[BigmanPigman]

4. When Judge Katherine Menendez's kid gets shot will she offer thoughts and prayers?

Fuck you, gun loving asshole!!!

Another state I will make sure to never enter or support.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

15. She is a Biden appointee

And she has to follow SCOTUS precedent.

[Skittles]

52. SCOTUS doesn't even follow SCOTUS precedent

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

55. They aren't required to, nor should they be.

Or would you prefer segregation and bans on interracial marriages to still be constitutional? SCOTUS makes bad decisions sometimes, obviously, so occasionally they will fix the mistakes of previous Courts.

On the other hand, lower courts need to be bound by SCOTUS in order to ensure some uniformity within our legal system, particularly Constitutional issues. It would be chaos if every court were allowed it's own interpretation. This is why Circuit Court splits on something is one of the surest ways to get SCOTUS to decide something.

[Skittles]

59. ITS own

unless you want your sentence to read "....if every court were allowed it is own interpretation"

and apparently, only women's rights are allowed to be rescinded

[progree]

23. What is the minimum age in California on a concealed weapon permit?

The article indicated that horrible Minnesota is (was) the only state with a higher-than-18 minimum age.

Actually we don't think of our state as being all that horrible politically, right now we have a blue trifecta. Weather-wise, that's another story.

We also don't have a say either as voters, nor our governor or legislature, on who our federal district judges are.

Another state I will make sure to never enter or support.

We're not Iowa.

[Straw Man]

47. Don't know California. NY is 21 minimum age for a concealed carry permit.

The article indicated that horrible Minnesota is (was) the only state with a higher-than-18 minimum age.

I didn't see that in the article. If it's there, it's wrong.

I'm not sure I see how Bruen is relevant. The Bruen case was about a subjective "show need" requirement in the NY permitting process. Prior to Bruen, if you couldn't convince a judge that you needed a permit, you didn't get one. The practical application of this requirement varied widely from county to county and from judge to judge.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

56. Bruen is relevant because it set the review standard for all 2A cases

Means end testing and all lower levels of scrutiny can no longer be used. Courts can no longer consider the government interest or "good" effects of the challenged law.

[sarisataka]

31. I was going to ask what other states

Do you avoid or not support, but let's go with a shorter list. Which one will you visit or support?

(Also, why so upset at a state for having a law struck down by a Federal judge?)

[The Jungle 1]

5. But the gun manufactures need all those gun buyers.

After all there are children to be shot and mutilated. The right loves dead kids.
The vast majority of the nation wants stricter gun laws. Our Democracy is not working.
The repukes are saying out loud that dead kids are just the way it is going to be. They can't do anything about it.

REPEAL the 2nd. The 2nd is the problem!

[Frasier Balzov]

18. The intentional misinterpretation of the 2A certainly is.

[The Jungle 1]

25. I agree.

The 2nd is not the problem the fraud the right uses to interpret the 2nd is the problem.
Which is exactly what Warren Burger said many years ago.
In the NRA lobby, in DC, most of the 2nd in on the wall. Left out are the four words "A well regulated Militia"!

All they want to do is sell guns.

[jvill]

6. Not enough dead kids, I guess...

.

[Karadeniz]

9. When you read the earlier post about the meaning of a well regulated militia, specifically by

Alexander Hamilton, this judgment would appear unconstitutional. Hamilton described the equivalent of state guards... called militia only because they were so leery of even whispering the term standing army. But they were meant to be regulated to keep them effective. So if a state places an age limit, that's its right to regulate. The feds, based upon an erroneous decision, continue to misapply the intent of the 2A.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

20. The Subversive 6 on the Extreme Cult are a threat to the nation.

[barbtries]

11. great. more dead bodies.

our country is sick.

[thatdemguy]

14. And she was appointed by Pres Biden NT.

[David__77]

17. Young adults should have same gun access.

…

[orleans]

21. um... maybe not. maybe not even people under 25

The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions.

snip

The emphasis on peer relationships, along with ongoing prefrontal cortex development, might lead teens to take more risks because the social benefits outweigh the possible consequences of a decision. These risks could be negative or dangerous, or they could be positive, such as talking to a new classmate or joining a new club or sport.

snip

Because the teen brain is still developing, teens may respond to stress differently than adults. This could increase teens’ chances of developing stress-related mental illnesses such as anxiety and depression.

snip

Many teens do not get enough sleep, making it harder to pay attention, control impulses, and do well at school.

snip

Ongoing changes in the brain, along with physical, emotional, and social changes, can make teens more likely to experience mental health problems. The fact that all these changes happen at one time may explain why many mental illnesses—such as schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, and eating disorders—emerge during adolescence.

more at link
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know#:~:text=The%20brain%20finishes%20developing%20and,prioritizing%2C%20and%20making%20good%20decisions.

[MichMan]

42. Should the voting and drinking ages be changed to 25 yrs old then?

Why would we permit young adults, whose minds are still being developed, to drink alcohol and make important decisions like voting?

[orleans]

43. you can't equate voting or drinking with owning a weapon of war that gives you the opportunity

to go massacre groups of people

[MichMan]

45. Not equating anything other than evaluating what undeveloped minds should be allowed to do

If indeed, minds are still undeveloped at someone's mid 20's, as the study concluded, they should probably not be considered responsible enough to do other activities that we only permit adults to engage in, like drinking and voting.

[orleans]

46. okay -- you're right. let's just give everyone a gun on their tenth birthday since they are capable

of being in the position to have babies.

[The Jungle 1]

26. Yea let's have everyone in high school carrying guns.

What could go wrong.
Send your first grade kid to school with a gun.
Actually the schools should buy the guns.
Snark

[former9thward]

50. My high school had a rifle club which I was part of.

We keep our rifles (and ammo) in our lockers. Nothing went wrong.

[The Jungle 1]

57. So did mine. 50 years ago.

Times have changed quite a bit since then.
Now the single most frequent cause of death for children is gun violence. Many people think more guns will solve that issue.
Bloody mutilated children all over the country.
I do remember the Texas tower mass shooting. 1966 I believe. I guess my generation had enough body bags from Vietnam.
Presently a minority of the country does not care about bloody mutilated children. The rest of us want it to stop.
Strict gun laws reduce the number of bloody mutilated children. We know the laws work.

[EX500rider]

58. Actually it's the most frequent cause of death for 18 and 19yo's

For actual children accidents are still the main cause of death.

[SouthernDem4ever]

22. The judge is a dumbass

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

27. The judge is a Biden appointee

And his picks have been pretty goosd. Regardless, at this point her hand are tied by SCOTUS precedent. Bruen set the new standard to determine the constitutionality of gun laws that lower courts must use.

[SouthernDem4ever]

28. A lot of judges are ignoring precedent, including SCOTUS

I stand by my statement.

[JohnnyRingo]

29. I believe one is legally an adult at 18.

Sorry if that upsets some, but if people aren't mature intellectually and emotionally at that age, they should raise the legal age of adulthood to 21 or higher.

If an 18 year old commits a crime with a gun they don't try them as a child. Not ever.

[thesquanderer]

39. It's hard to say you can't get a permit for a gun when you're old enough to be drafted. n/t

[Straw Man]

48. Yup.

Ethically, it's a hard sell to say you're old enough to bear arms in defense of your nation, but not in defense of yourself.

[azureblue]

30. This is great!

Because the judge cited the 2nd amendment, then the other part of the 2nd, must also be enforced. The membership in a "well regulated militia" part. You aren't a member of the National Guard? Then you don't get to own a firearm.

Per the judge's ruling, now anyone who does not belong to a WRM and is carrying, loses possession of their weapon until they join one and undergo complete training..

[friend of a friend]

32. According to The Supreme Court, the first part of the 2nd Amendment,

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," is a preamble, it is the second part "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." is what The Supreme Court says is the important part because of the comma after "a free state. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what the Founding Fathers meant, it is only important what The Supreme Court says it means. In 1893, The Supreme Court ruled in Nix v Hedden that tomatoes were a vegetable and not a fruit because most people thought that tomatoes were a vegetable. You never know what reasons The Supreme Court will come up with.

[ancianita]

33. Fuck this judge who ignores ONGOING injury to ALL of MN's citizens' 1ST & 14TH amendment rights.

[angrychair]

34. We have to come to terms with the reality

That the US is, collectively, not necessarily individually, a death cult.
We are obsessed with violence, war and killing.
We, as human beings, not individuals, are more likely to torture someone then give them aid.

Humans beings are not the evolved, benevolent beings we like to imagine ourselves to be.

We are the things that go bump in the night.

We are driven by fear, hate and anger.

We are our own demons.

[sl8]

35. Decision (pdf) :

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mnd.194951/gov.uscourts.mnd.194951.84.0.pdf

[...]

The State of Minnesota requires a person to obtain a permit to lawfully carry a handgun in public, but does not issue permits to anyone under the age of twenty-one. The Plaintiffs, who are 18-to-20-year-old individuals and firearms advocacy organizations with members in that age range, argue that the minimum age requirement in Minnesota’s permit-to-carry law violates their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. The parties have filed cross-motions for summary judgment. The Supreme Court’s recent decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, 142 S. Ct. 2111 (2022), compels the conclusion that Minnesota’s permitting age restriction is unconstitutional, and Plaintiffs are entitled to judgment as a matter of law.

[...]

[Novara]

36. Half this goddamned country has lost its mind.

[Kaleva]

37. Especially Vermont where a 16 y/o can conceal carry w/o a permit

[Novara]

38. Who the hell would send their kids to school ...

... with 16 year old classmates carrying "legally"????

[sl8]

40. Sometimes. It's against federal law for juveniles ( 18) to possess a handgun, with some exceptions

18 U.S. Code § 922 (x) (2)

YOUTH HANDGUN SAFETY ACT NOTICE (ATF pdf)
https://www.atf.gov/file/58806/download

[Kaleva]

41. You are correct

[Straw Man]

49. It's also ...

... against Vermont law to carry a firearm on the grounds of a school.

[sl8]

53. True for school building or school bus, not necessarily for school property

https://legislature.vermont.gov/statutes/section/13/085/04004

[...]

§ 4004. Possession of dangerous or deadly weapon in a school bus or school building or on school property

(a) No person shall knowingly possess a firearm or a dangerous or deadly weapon while within a school building or on a school bus. A person who violates this section shall, for the first offense, be imprisoned for not more than one year or fined not more than $1,000.00, or both, and for a second or subsequent offense shall be imprisoned for not more than three years or fined not more than $5,000.00, or both.

(b) No person shall knowingly possess a firearm or a dangerous or deadly weapon on any school property with the intent to injure another person. A person who violates this section shall, for the first offense, be imprisoned for not more than three years or fined not more than $1,000.00, or both, and for a second or subsequent offense shall be imprisoned for not more than five years or fined not more than $5,000.00, or both.

(c) This section shall not apply to:

[exceptions list]

[Vinca]

54. WTF ever happened to the "well regulated militia?" I doubt the founders intended a mass

killing per day in this country.

[EX500rider]

60. However after the bill of Rights passed..

... they did not then require militia membership for firearm ownership so it's unlikely that's what they meant.

[f_townsend]

61. You're not getting it right

The Framers never claimed that militia participation was the requirement to own guns; only that it was a requirement to have a constitutionally-protected right to own a gun. That was made clear during the BoR debates in the First Congress, when it was stated that the constitutional "right to keep arms" was solely dependent on militia participation. The "explanatory" wording of the 2A -- wording that was unique among all the amendments -- made that clear enough to everyone. So local gun control ordinances which didn't disarm militiamen were passed throughout the states, and nobody ever cried out their right to bear and keep arms was being infringed in any way.

That meant, though the right of participating militiamen not to be dispossessed of their militia weapon could not be "infringed" (within reason), all other gun control legislation was and is constitutional. Any Court ruling claiming otherwise is fraudulent.