Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumDead Dolphins In Fukushima Found Stranded With White Radiated Lungs
Japanese scientists have said they have never seen anything as horrific as the massive group of dead dolphins discovered stranded on a beach near the site of the 2011 Fukushima disaster.
After conducting an autopsy the scientists found that the dolphins lungs were white which they say is an indication of radiation poisoning.
http://yournewswire.com/dead-dolphins-in-fukushima-stranding-found-with-white-radiated-lungs/
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Tragic....
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Because the cause is not the Reactors.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Most likely cause, and the reason the Japanese People aren't freaking out over it, is the earthquakes. It wrecks cetacean's navigation capabilities.
The 'white lungs' shit is, just that. Shit. The [s] "National Science Museum"[/s] I mean, National Museum of Nature and Science has made no such public claim at all.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)"Sonar waves the dolphins emit might have been absorbed in the shoals, which could cause them to lose their sense of direction," he told the Yomiuri Shimbun.
Melon-headed whales, also known as electra dolphins, are relatively common in Japanese waters and can grow to be two-to-three metres (six-to-nine feet) long.
In 2011, about 50 melon-headed whales beached themselves in a similar area.
Friday's rescue effort stood in marked contrast to the global view of Japan and its relationship with cetaceans.
Things like, correctly naming the nature org examining the dolphins, the NAME of the PERSON representing the group, and oh look, a complete lack of any bullshit about their lungs (which could have a lot of causes besides radiation, and if it was radiation, they'd still BE radioactive, and also, therefore dangerous to perform an autopsy on.)
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)2naSalit
(86,963 posts)Radiation poisoning is natural. There's no harm in all that radiation in the water and the spillage that has been dumped into the ocean for the last five+ years.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)They can't clean it up. They can't do shit. This disaster will pollute the worlds oceans for millennia. Hey, lets build more, and run the ones we've got way past their operational life spans. What could go wrong?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Duppers
(28,134 posts)nilram
(2,895 posts)Vegetarianism is looking better and better to me. Sushi, not so much.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)waste in the ocean is the best way to dispose of it.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)We are SOOOOOOO fucked.
Maybe the fucking 1% can buck up and shut it down, somehow.
Yeah right!!!!!!
Hey, anyone heard of concrete? I think it worked in Russia. DUH
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)The kind that gets in, irradiates JUST the lungs of 'SOME' of the dead dolphins, then LEAVES so they don't trip Geiger counters.
Forget physics. It's fucking magic.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)sue4e3
(731 posts)this is just regurgitated. I mildly tried to debunk it for the masses then but the fear is much too large. so I just shake my head and move on
djean111
(14,255 posts)strapped to the wings of an L-1011 and flew around the world a few thousand times. Which is exactly what they would do, if they only had frequent flyer miles.
Or went through airport security scanners 50,000 times. Or, for some reason, ate a banana peel. From a banana grown in Fukushima.
questionseverything
(9,666 posts)i am guessing the swarm hasn't figured out how to present their talking points yet
FBaggins
(26,793 posts)Let's review the lies, shall we?
* It didn't happen in Fukushima... it was about 150 miles south of there in Hokota.
* Nobody determined that they had "radiated lungs" - the author made that up.
* The scientists did not say that there was an "indication of radiation poisoning" - the author made that up.
* Nor is there any reason to think that it could have been caused by radiation. Radiation-induced ischemia is caused by targeted doses (e.g., for treating breast cancer) that are tens of thousands to millions of times higher than any sea life could have received. The only reason it's found in the lungs is because they're right behind the tissue being targeted - if it were radiation from Fukushima, it would effect the entire animal - and the article makes clear that didn't happen.
You see an article a year after the events, posted on a russian proxy site (citing what is probably another one), authored by a woo-peddler (UFOs, chemtrails, "Snowden shows that aliens live inside the Earth", etc.),
And you think he's due an apology?
Nihil
(13,508 posts)If you are meaning "Robert the Rabid Nut" who was banned from this group
for being a complete & utter moronic troll then he is due absolutely no apologies
from anyone who
a) can read
b) can count
c) has better than a child's grasp of geography
or
d) has had any first-hand contact with any scientific field.
If it was any other "robert" then please feel free to provide information
rather than just imply that rational posters should accept your proposal
of sainthood for a random name ...
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)We have got to force the Psychopathic Uber-Rich to stop thir nuclear nonsense! Fucking off to prison with them already!
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Lets build more of these reactors on coastlines in earthquake zones. I know we can destroy the planet so much faster if we just stop with this half ass effort we've been making.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)I am afraid the Fukushima disaster is far worse that we have been told. I grieve for the Mother Earth and her creatures...I think the planet would be so much better off without us crazy humans.
Peace be with all the creatures....it seems that have suffered so.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Thespian2
(2,741 posts)We cannot see the planet lasting much beyond 2050...Yes, we both will be gone long before that...we are both over 70...
MisterP
(23,730 posts)AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Jopin Klobe
(779 posts)Times: The worst possible result revealed at Fukushima Plant Chief: Centuries may pass before humans find a way to deal with molten cores Top Official: We have no idea what to do, the technology simply doesnt exist
I cant say its possible
Naohiro Masuda, president of Tepcos Fukushima Daiichi Decommissioning Company: "We have no idea about the debris. We dont know its shape or strength. We have to remove it remotely from 30 meters above, but we dont have that kind of technology, it simply doesnt exist... We still dont know whether its possible to fill the reactor containers with water. Weve found some cracks and holes in the three damaged container vessels, but we dont know if we found them all. If it turns out there are other holes, we might have to look for some other way to remove the debris."
NHK: Asked [about the gov't target to begin by 2020], his answer was surprisingly candid.
Masuda: [b]"Its a very big challenge. Honestly speaking, I cannot say its possible."
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Lede photo look familiar?
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/04/11/national/nearly-150-melon-headed-whales-feared-dead-beaching-ibaraki/#.VTeQgCFVikp
4/11/2015
I don't know about you guys, but I totally trust 'news' sites full of ridiculous clickbait that STEAL photos from real news articles more than a year old.
https://weather.com/science/nature/news/japan-dolphin-beaching-earthquake-fears#/!
They weren't irradiated. There's no mention from any source of anything with their lungs, and if that was the case, they'd be radioactive waste, not buried near the beach in the NEXT PREFECTURE OVER from Fukushima.
This is something that dolphins do from time to time. Japan was wracked with earthquakes earlier this month, and there are more possible explanations besides.
But yeah, everything is the reactor complex. EVERYTHING. Quit being chumps.
Lodestar
(2,388 posts)Fukushima continues to spew out radiation. The quantities seem to be rising, as do the impacts.
There are horrifying signs of ecological disaster in the Pacific and human health impacts in the U.S.
But within Japan, a new State Secrets Act makes such talk punishable by up to ten years in prison.
http://miami-water.com/blog/3259/japan-state-secrecy-law-effects-on-radiation-reporting/
In April 2015, scientists from Japan's National Science Museum conducted autopsies on the beached dolphins. They found that nearly all of them had lungs that were entirely white, indicating a condition known as ischemia - that is, loss of blood to the organs. The animals' internal organs showed no signs of infection or any other disease.
"I have never seen such a state," the chief researcher said.
While the researchers did not draw the connection themselves, ischemia is a well known symptom of radiation poisoning. In particular, studies have shown that small doses of radiation over time can produce ischemic heart disease (IHD). Higher rates of IHD have been observed among workers at the Mayak nuclear facility in Russia, with a higher risk among those exposed to greater levels of gamma radiation. Increases in IHD rates were also observed among emergency workers who responded to the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, as well as among residents exposed to radioactive fallout from the disaster. In the latter case, rates of IHD had increased by two to four times by 1988.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/050674_Fukushima_marine_life_beached_dolphins.html#ixzz46rWZ6xpy
Dying Whales, Horrific Omen
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-reese-halter/dying-whales-horrific-ome_b_9006332.html
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Riddle me this; how do you expose the interior of a lung to that much radiation without similarly posing a risk to the people performing the autopsy?
Answer; you don't.
Calling out ischemia in this manner is a desperate, transparent, pathetic attempt to link SOMETHING, ANYTHING to the reactor.
You are not helping your cause, making shit up like this.
Edit: Also, waiting on a credible news agency naming the correct research institution, a published report, and the names of the people attached to it.
Good luck.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)NickB79
(19,301 posts)White lung tissue is a classic sign of ischemia in mammals, when the bloodflow to the tissue is interrupted. Other Fukushima watchdog websites even quoted dolphin researchers as saying the lungs were ischemic: http://fukushima-diary.com/2015/04/most-of-the-inspected-dolphins-had-lungs-in-ischaemia-state-as-entirely-white/
Ischemia is caused by a restriction of bloodflow to the lungs, not radiation poisoning (unless the dolphins got such a massive radiation dose they'd show multiple organ failures at once instead of just the lungs).
In fact, NOAA has autopsied dolphins with ischemia numerous times over the years, and concluded dolphins are very sensitive to stresses such as being chased by fishing boats: https://swfsc.noaa.gov/uploadedfiles/divisions/prd/programs/etp_cetacean_assessment/lj_02_24c.pdf
Over 50 dolphins in one study, in 2002, all showing signs of ischemia-caused death.
maindawg
(1,151 posts)That's the other side of the Pacific ocean from Japan but you know that's how currents work. The world has done nothing about this. The billionaires who profit from these death machines will do nothing. I am amazed by disinterest in this situation. The entire world should be working to solve this because everyday it gets a little worse.
I notice there are several naysayers here, and maybe these fish did not die from the effects of Fukushima nuklear poisoning. But millions of other fish have. And millions of people will be next.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)At least you admit it might be some other cause.
That's a start.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)When you have all sorts of extremely credible entities saying 'meh' contrary to so-called "news" outlets that also claim Prince was assassinated for speaking about chemtrails, it's just not that hard to decide which one to believe.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/11/fukushima-radiation-nears-california-coast-judged-harmless
Contrary to irresponsible and inaccurate rumors that Health Canada suspended monitoring in the wake of the triple meltdowns, monitoring activities were, in fact, enhanced and expanded to increase the flow of information and improve understanding of the implications of the contamination for environmental and public health. While there was no discernible change in total background radiation a distributed system of monitoring stations and the rapid collection and measurement of environmental samples tracked the trace levels of atmospheric contamination across the country. The report concludes:
conservative estimates of the maximum individual dose from Fukushima was less than 0.0003 (1/ 3,000) of the typical annual dose for a Canadian owing to natural background sources
the additional dose resulting from Fukushima derived contamination is far less than the normal variation in dose from place to place in Canada
there are likely to be no health impacts related to this small, incremental dose
http://fukushimainform.ca/category/peer-reviewed/location/british-columbia/
questionseverything
(9,666 posts)and the ptb have no idea how to stop it
FBaggins
(26,793 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Combining scientific ignorance with profound innumeracy is a recipe for nonsensical answers.
The people who tell you that fukushima is warming up the ocean haven't the first clue what they're taking about.
questionseverything
(9,666 posts)we did it because it extended the season by several months because the closer we got to the discharge the warmer the water was
<shrugs>
i never worried about the treated water because the ptb said it was safe. lose material is a different story tho but i can conclude it would heat water in a similar manner
please proceed to call me all the names you want
FBaggins
(26,793 posts)You just compared the heat from an operating reactor (orders of magnitude higher) dumped into a pond (many many MANY orders of magnitude smaller) to a tiny fraction of a core that was shut down years ago dumping into the Pacific Ocean.
lose material is a different story tho but i can conclude it would heat water in a similar manner
Actually, you can't conclude that at all. People see large numbers of becquerels (in the trillions to quadrillions) and assume that it must mean that there's lots of the emitting material (Cesium in this case) out there. The reality is very different. The total emissions to the sea were huge compared to other events (including Chernobyl), but it's still measurable in kilograms. It couldn't do anything temperature-wise to the sea.
Here's a simple thought experiment:
Consider an operating nuclear reactor of about the size of most of the Fukushima reactors (~800MWe). The "e" is "electric" - because the reactor actually creates roughly three times that amount of heat. It's just that only about a third of it can be extracted as electricity. The rest is waste heat that gets dumped into the environment (just like any other steam power plant). "The environment" might be to the air (cooling towers), to a river/pond like you described, or into the sea. Getting that heat from the core to the turbines and back again takes pumps that move hundreds of thousands of gallons of water per minute - and (for a Japanese reactor) two thirds of that heat ends up in the sea.
Yet somehow... the FUD crowd is able to sell a fantasy that a rector that was shut down five years ago is warming up the ocean when dozens of operating reactors didn't do it pre-Fukushima? A few hundred tons of water per day are supposed to heat up the sea because they contain a tiny fraction of a milligram of cesium? When millions of tons per day per reactor wasn't doing it when dumping waste heat?
questionseverything
(9,666 posts)when the truth is the fuel is missing
<shrugs>
knowing what we know now about heat in the oceans damaging the life in the oceans, it is stupid that the oceans are used for cooling even in the plants that are functioning correctly
FBaggins
(26,793 posts)They may not have followed a safe/normal return to cold-shutdown state, but the fission was ceased within seconds of the earthquake (roughly an hour before the tsunami hit)
when the truth is the fuel is missing
The fuel is in no sense "missing" (as in, gone from the unit), but it wouldn't matter a whit if it was. The amount of heat that that much fuel creates when it isn't fissioning is a mathematical function of time. By five years post-shutdown, you don't even need water to cool it... you could place fuel in concrete casks and let air circulation do it. There just isn't much heat being produced. If it was still fissioning, it would be 1000+ times higher, but it isn't.
There is no debating this. If there was still active fission going on, then the core would be producing lots and LOTS of I131. It's impossible to hide and no way that it could be missed. There isn't any... therefore there isn't any active fission going on. Q.E.D.
And even if there were active fission going on... there used to be dozens of operating reactors in Japan dumping their waste heat into that same ocean. It's silly to pretend that somehow there's MORE heat being produced now.
knowing what we know now about heat in the oceans damaging the life in the oceans, it is stupid that the oceans are used for cooling even in the plants that are functioning correctly
It's understandable that you would feel that way... but the reality is that it's tiny in comparison to the scale of the globe. Carbon emissions from the fossil plants that replaced these nuclear units has far more impact on ocean temperatures than the dumping of waste heat did.
questionseverything
(9,666 posts)down to fix it
i would help raise the money for your ticket
FBaggins
(26,793 posts)You get corrected on some pretty laughable nonsense and you decide that must mean that I think it's "so safe" that you could just climb in to the containment?
NickB79
(19,301 posts)Because you aren't going to heat up a body of water as large as the Pacific with anything less than truly massive amounts of nuclear material.
You really aren't seeing the scale here. All the thousands of steam-turbine power plants around the PLANET that run each and every day, ie the nuclear, coal, diesel and natural-gas-fired power plants, and dump their cooling water streams have not been shown to be able to increase an entire ocean's temperature in a measurable way via direct waste-heat emissions.
There isn't enough nuclear fuel in all the world's nuclear reactors combined to heat the Pacific Ocean in the way you propose. Hell, the US and the USSR lost several nuclear-powered submarines in the world's oceans decades ago, which carried far more nuclear material than Fukushima lost.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,682 posts)[center]
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I can't believe those people who find this situation too tragic feel no need to speak up about Japan's whale slaughters, and the Cove which becomes completely red with the blood of these poor creatures when they herd them in there and lay waste to them.
NNadir
(33,587 posts)...and unambiguous demonstration of exactly why the planetary atmosphere is collapsing.
People are so stupid as to claim that every dolphin that dies in the Western Pacific was killed by Fukushima.
The lack of scientific literacy on this planet is exactly the reason that we are in such dire straits.
Nuclear energy saves lives, and it follows that anti-nuke ignorance kills.