A question with over 15,000,000 cars & trucks sold every year what fuel should we use today?

[awake]

As we move off of fossil fuels what fuel can we replace it with? Electricity is not a source of fuel, in most of the country power plants are still using fossil fuel to make electricity while solar and wind will help how long will it take to replace fossil fuels to power the grid? I feel that nuclear is not the answer so what is the answer, and what fuel will we use in airplanes? These are the hard question that need to be answered before we have a chance to but an end to the use of coal, oil and gas.

[Kip Humphrey]

1. Sooner or later we will be a hydrogen economy. Let's make it sooner!

[awake]

2. I agree but how do we get there and where does all of the hydrogen come from?

[Kip Humphrey]

6. seawater electrolysis powered primarily by subsea ocean current generators driven by stable deep

water ocean currents. These currents exist worldwide and the technology to tap them is at hand. Hydrogen fuel cells can power transportation and hydrogen powered power plants can replace virtually all existing power plants. Fuel station engineering is on the shelf and ready to go. What we need is the political will to transform our energy systems, and it can be transformed in 10 years or less with the proper effort.

[awake]

9. Ocean currents are a great solution

The technology is not here yet people are trying to place "water turbines" in the Bay of Fundy off the coast of Nova Scotia Canada and so far it is proving harder than first thought with the currents distorting the turbines in short order. To end our dependents on oil and gas we will need to have working solutions in place and we will need to up our efforts in this area, maybe we could get defense contractors to build the solutions because an effort as larger as will be nessary to make the transishion will take massive Goverment funding like the funding now spent on the military.

[Kip Humphrey]

10. I sought out a senior deep water flowline engineer who validated the engineering feasibility. The

technology is presently embedded in deep water oil & gas extraction but can be developed and ramped up in fairly short order if the commitment exists to drive this technology to implementation. Commercial project duration I estimate at 6 years. I designed this system in 1972 and have followed it since. Having been a senior project controls engineer for Gulf of Mexico deep water brownfield oil & gas projects for 14 years, I have some experience that informs me.

[awake]

11. Great, please check out what they are finding with the ocean turbines

off of the coast of Nova Scotia. I believe this idea could provide a great source of energy but will need more support keep up your good work.

[nationalize the fed]

19. Solar and Wind

Hydrogen is a better way to store renewable energy than batteries- because of the weight, the fact that all batteries will die (imagine millions and millions of dead batteries in landfills) and the fact that batteries lose charge. A kilogram of H2 will be the same in 10,000 years.

Honda is working on Home Solar Hydrogen stations- your solar panels make hydrogen during the day and you fill your car up at night.

Panasonic has solar panels that make hydrogen. And Japan has only just begun to innovate with H2.



Panasonic Corp. said it has developed a catalyst that uses sunlight efficiently to extract hydrogen from water, a technology that could lead to energy self-sufficiency in homes powered by fuel cells.

The company said it tested photocatalysts consisting of niobium nitride that can absorb 57 percent of sunlight, a rate far more efficient than the titanium oxide photocatalysts used today that absorb only ultraviolet rays, which constitute 4 percent of sunlight.

Using this catalyst, Panasonic plans to develop products, such as panels similar to solar cells, for installation on rooftops. These products in turn will create the hydrogen that fuel cells use to generate electricity...snip

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/sci_tech/technology/AJ201508020014

Solar Hydrogen is the fuel of the future
http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Hydrogen-Future-Mario-Pagliaro/dp/1849731950/

[CentralCoaster]

3. Answer: No fuel. "Fuel" implies fossil fuels and unsustainable ethanol. Better:

Wind and solar generated electricity is a better way to power transportation.

Biomass hasn't made the grade yet, but biogas is a great type of fuel== better to burn it for use than let it go into the atmosphere.

So, the correct answer is the only fuel that's not harmful is biogas, as from landfills or dairy farms, etc.

Any other "fuel" based power supply implies burning and, thus, emissions.

And, hydrogen is also not a source, so that's not in the running.

[awake]

5. Is there enough Biomass to go around?

What do we need to do to build a large enough wind and solar infrastructure?

[CentralCoaster]

8. No on biogas, no single source can cover it all.

Interestingly, biogas is solar, originally. In fact, fossil fuels are, too, and wind (which is driven by solar heat's effects on the planet).

To your question, wind is pretty significant and can deliver a significant portion of our needs, but only after we solve the problem of energy storage. It's more windy at night, we can't use it when there isn't demand unless we build out more storage.

Solar could be far more widely deployed, we're getting there slowly, but again we need storage for nighttime use.

So, the solution is a blend of types of generation, with storage, and smart grid features, and a lot of education and reduction in consumption.

Exciting times under dire circumstances!



PS: support for rail and public transit, movement away from the automobile era and suburbs, is huge.

[OKIsItJustMe]

20. I am so tired of that canard, “hydrogen is … not a source”

True! neither are batteries.

You cannot run a car on “wind and solar.” You can generate electricity, and store it in batteries, or, you can generate hydrogen and store it in tanks.
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy15osti/62518.pdf

[CentralCoaster]

21. Good analogy, hydrogen, electricity, energy carriers; not energy sources.

Hydrogen has the distinction of being considered a fuel in the sense that it's a commodity; a substance with energy content.

But in case anyone reading thought it might be the energy source or fuel of the future, many don't realize that it's simply not a source of energy.

And neither are batteries and electricity.

[sue4e3]

4. I have said from the very beginning we need conversions or "upgrades "

so switching out would be easier. There is a serious financial gap between the rich , dwindling middle class and poor. If every one has to switch to something new the expense will be to great , delaying everything . A cheaper conversion would make every thing much smoother

[awake]

7. Any idea on how to creat a "cheaper conversion"

This seems to make sense, I know in New Deli India the small 3 wheeled "tuktuks" have switch fron high polluting oil fuel to propane. Is there an easy conversion for our larger cars and trucks?

[sue4e3]

12. I don't but my husband who was a mechanic for a good portion of his life

seemed to think it possible

[hunter]

13. We should quit doing that.

Cars and trucks are not a necessity of life.

Let's gradually restructure our small towns and cities so that personal car and truck ownership is unnecessary, even undesirable.

Automobiles have always been a tool of the fascists; a way of severely limiting and carefully monitoring the movements of people. They are also a means of maintaining a capacity to build war machines. Factories that produce cars, trucks, aircraft, and watercraft for civilian use can quickly be adapted to produce machines for military use.

[awake]

16. Talk about tilting at windmills

Rebuilding the citys and improving mass transit is of course a big part of the fix but calling cars and trucks tools of fascists seems a dit of a stretch. A lot of small businesses and independent contractors depend on their cars and trucks for their lively hood.

[hunter]

18. I own a car and I resent that I must.

By some planning and greater good fortune my wife and I managed to escape the ordinary commuter lifestyle in the mid 'eighties. When we met we were both Los Angeles commuters. But even where we live now owning a car and having a drivers license is required for membership in the fully functional adult community.

Most people walking or riding bicycles or the bus can't afford a car, can't see well enough to drive, or have had their cars and licenses taken away for drunk driving and similar offences.

When I'm walking I don't have to carry identification or wear a license plate on my butt. I don't even have to stay on the road or worry about parking.

The "freedom" of automobile ownership is an illusion. My opinion of cell phones is similar, but they do seem to be reducing the attractiveness of automobiles to young people, and the use and manufacture of cell phones consumes fewer resources than automobiles.

[sue4e3]

17. my husband now buries people for a living. We are put in

big cement boxes and hoisted into the ground , my point is we need vehicles just to deal with our dead. That's not something we're getting rid of in any fast manner , so we should start looking for alternatives

[zalinda]

14. I am not an engineer or any other science professional

but here is my two cents in the conversation.

I would love to have an electric car. I would love to have solar panels on my roof, as it gets sun all day long. Why can't I have these things, I can't afford them.

I see the sewage plant burn off methane and think there sure should be a way to harness that energy rather than waste it. Is there a way to make liquid methane and burn it in vehicles? I know some farms are harnessing methane and using it to provide energy to their farm. Methane is causing problems in the environment, couldn't we somehow harness it?

I think solar is fantastic, but we really need a way to store the energy that it provides and recycle the batteries that it currently uses. Wind, again has a fantastic future, but storing the energy is again a problem.

I have to ask about hydrogen. If we used hydrogen, would we be in danger of depleting hydrogen?

I'm just looking at things that we have too much of and/or is dangerous vs something that is easy to do and when at a danger level we have to switch gears and do something again. I guess I want optimum solutions to the problem.

Z

[GliderGuider]

15. Why not restructure out societies so they require less long-range mobility?

Automobiles are a terrible idea, both for societies and the planet.

[CentralCoaster]

22. Bingo. People often ask the wrong question.

I'm having a hell of a good time in my local community fighting the car-people who insist that just one more lane on the highway will cure congestion. Of course they're wrong; chronic congestion is incurable-- people need to consider moving closer to work or investing in rail transit (in our very specific case there is a 32 mile branch line we could convert to rail transit but people want the tracks gone).

[cprise]

23. The reasons why "Batteries" is still the right answer...

even though they aren't a "fuel" or source of energy:

1. BEVs (battery electric vehicles) are on the market now, and they are competitive.

2. As a storage medium themselves, BEVs enable the spread of renewable energy. The more BEVs get sold and connected to smart grids, the more energy from wind and solar can be used.

3. Advancement in solar and wind equipment is accelerating more than for any other source, so their potential contribution to production will keep rising steeply (admittedly, starting from near-zero at the turn of the millennium).



So the real answer here is solar & wind. But since you phrased your question in such a way -- road vehicles and "today" -- it evoked a choice about what cars to buy.

There is more to it than that. There is no way to just plug new equipment into our current energy lifestyle. Suburban sprawl must decrease, for instance. Supermarkets will have to make big changes in refrigeration, and the trend of larger homes will have to continue its reversal. Birth control is essential, too, because there is probably no conceivable technology that's sustainable while serving 10+ billion people.