Jerusalem Catholic patriarch backs Palestinian state

[Eugene]

Source: BBC

24 December 2012 Last updated at 15:38 GMT

Jerusalem Catholic patriarch backs Palestinian state

The head of the Roman Catholic Church in Jerusalem has voiced his support for a Palestinian state during a procession to Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus.

Latin Patriarch Fouad Twal said this Christmas would be a celebration of "the birth of Christ our lord and the birth of the state of Palestine".

In November the United Nations upgraded the status of the Palestinians to that of a "non-member observer state".

Patriarch Twal is due to lead midnight mass at the Church of the Nativity.

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Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20838547

[Ken Burch]

1. Well, the patriarch IS Palestinian, isn't he?

You'd hardly expect him to oppose the idea.

[oberliner]

2. Jordanian, I think

But the principle is the same.

[King_David]

3. Palestinians just like Jews have monolithic thought ? nt

[Ken Burch]

4. No, but we can probably assume that NO Palestinian would be against self-determination.

Can you actually imagine ANY Palestinians settling for anything short of actually getting a state? Can you seriously believe more than a handful would accept the now-totally-discredited-and-inherently-unjust "Jordanian option", or Netanyahu's imaginary "economic autonomy" proposal?

If so, why? When have we ever seen a subjugated people genuinely accept subjugation(which is what BOTH of the above proposals mean)as their genuinely natural station in life?

It simply isn't in question...there couldn't be more than a trivially small handful of Palestinians who DON'T want independence as quickly as possible-any more than there could have been more than a trivially small number of Jewish people in the Mandate in 1946 who would have WANTED the British to stay on indefinitely(there were a significant minority, at the time, who'd have wanted something like the "one state" proposal of today, but not enough to carry the day, obviously).

[oberliner]

5. More than half oppose a two-state solution

This has been very recently documented.

[Ken Burch]

8. Those that oppose it would prefer a single-state solution, I would guess.

Last edited Tue Dec 25, 2012, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)

It's exceedingly doubtful that more than a handful of collaborationist types(and it must be said that collaborationists are driven solely by self-interest rather than any desire for peace and reconciliation, because no one chooses to work for reconciliation by accepting subordinate status as their station in life)would prefer the preservation of any part of the status quo. Why on earth would anyone think that the bulk of Palestinians would ever favor being forced to choose between statelessness or exile? Nobody else, anywhere on the planet, would be ok with that.

Do you, actually, KNOW of any significant number of Palestinians who would actually WANT the status quo to go on? If so, why? And are you actually prepared to defend the argument(which you seem to be edging towards here) that there are a secret "silent majority" of Pals that DON'T want their own state? That implication has been part of Israeli propaganda from the get-go...the notion that, if ONLY you got read of the "extremist leaders", nobody ELSE in Palestine would mind being occupied at all-which is a descendant of the traditional ruler-owner-colonizer mentality that most subjugated peoples would be content to go on being subjugated indefinitely if ONLY it weren't for "outside agitators" or "subversives" or "those dadburn Yankee abolitionist troublemakers" putting ideas in their heads.

[King_David]

6. Ah I see so Palestinians are in complete agreement

And Jewish opinion is all over the map.

Bullshit ..

There's some "right" wing Palestinian commentators such as Abu Tomeh.. And crazy Hamas kill the Jew types and The Green Primce Mossad informant "son of Hamas".

This again is your " wishful " thinking.

[zellie]

7. You could talk to the palestinian progressives...

if they werent in total fear of their lives.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Even though yr totally wrong, we should be grateful you admit there are Palestinian progressives...

[Ken Burch]

9. If you read what I wrote carefully, I said nothing of the kind.

Last edited Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:46 AM - Edit history (1)

Palestinian opinion is divided more or less between supporters of a one-state solution and supporters(unfortunately, a smaller number at the moment due to the oppressive treatment the Israeli government has inflicted on them)of a two-state solution.

All I said is that there are hardly any who would favor preseving the status quo, or going to what would have to be even worse, the "Jordanian option".

And, again, you can't use the terms "Israeli opinion" AND "Jewish opinion" interchangeably. The two are not synonymous and It serves no purpose to pretend that they are.

There are differences of opinion in both groups in the former lands of the Mandate...there are differences of opinion between Palestinians and other Arabs, and internally within Palestinians themselves...there are differences of opinion within the Israeli Jewish polity, between Israelis and Jewish people in the Diaspora, and between people in the Diaspora themselves.

Nothing I posted equates to saying that Palestinians have any more than a hive mind on the issues of the day than anyone else...but the differences are on the question of which form self-determination should take, NOT on whether self-determination should be achieved. You'd be extroardinarily hard-pressed to find ANY large group of rank-and-file Palestinians who are content with the current situation or would prefer it to independence. Can you seriously quarrel with that last sentence?