The Idolatry of Nuclearism

[stone space]

The Idolatry of Nuclearism

After the United states dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Dorothy Day noted that "the Lordship of Christ has been replaced by the Lordship of the bomb.". -a sentiment that was underscored by Openheimer's decision to name the first test "The Trinity". According to Plowshares activists, Americans have become thoroughly enamored with the power of these weapons. This has led to a state of "nuclearism" in which the US population has become psychologically and politically dependent on it's nuclear capacity. The Catholic Left believes that this mentality has transformed nuclear weapons into gods of metal, because people have placed their ultimate faith on the power of these missiles, violating God's commandments, Thou shall have no other gods before me" and "Do not bow down to any idol and worship it". as Author Laffin notes, To pledge our ultimate allegiance to the state and top place our security in idols of death betrays our faith in God and constitutes ultimate blasphemy.

Religion and War Resistance in the Plowshares Movement
by Sharon Erickson Nepstad

https://books.google.com/books?id=_HTIZhUv994C&pg=PA66&dq=Religion+and+War+Resistance+in+the+Plowshares+Movement+nuclearism&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMI85jNq9iWxwIVze-ACh1rcAdb#v=onepage&q=Religion%20and%20War%20Resistance%20in%20the%20Plowshares%20Movement%20nuclearism&f=false

[Android3.14]

1. Misuse of the word "idolatry"

Nepstad also has the sloppy rhetoric to make blanket statements about the beliefs of a huge diverse group. Does the Catholic Left even have a platform?

And what is the difference between plain ol' blasphemy and "ultimate blasphemy"?

[stone space]

4. The "sloppy rhetoric" is not the author's.

She's simply reporting her research on a specific movement that comes out of the Catholic Left, called the Plowshares Movement. (Note the title of the book.)

The so-called "sloppy rhetoric" simply reflects the religious beliefs of many folks in the Plowshares Movement, as reflected by research.

Nepstad describes the methodology that she used in her research on the Plowshares Movement in the preface.

Methodology

Yet precisely because these activists are in and out of prison, conducting research on them was challenging at times. Before I began my work, I knew that the movement had historically experienced significant repression and that it might not be easy for an outsider to make inquires, asking people to talk about political "crimes" they committed. In fact, a priest who wrote a book chronicling Catholic Left history from 1961 to 1975 wrote, "The Catholic Left was a very volatile and fluid social phenomena not at all amenable to routine research methods. In view of it's highly illegal activities, one can hardly consult membership lists or expect to have questionnaires returned." Aware of the potential obstacles, I set out to learn as much as I could about the Plowshares movement, recognizing that I would need to take a multi-method approach.

OK, I'm tired of typing, but this initial paragraph does illustrate some of the difficulties of such research, and I'll try to make a link into the preface at google books so you can read the rest of what she has to say about her methodology.

https://books.google.com/books?id=_HTIZhUv994C&pg=PR15&lpg=PR15&dq=Yet+precisely+because+these+activists+are+in+and+out+of+prison&source=bl&ots=6AoTC0p18w&sig=U2GZvlZuPc8UCjG7Cx0b3gCweps&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIvtPG2e6WxwIVgcSACh3NswrV#v=onepage&q=Yet%20precisely%20because%20these%20activists%20are%20in%20and%20out%20of%20prison&f=false

[mr blur]

2. "gods of metal", eh?

[uriel1972]

3. I always thought 'Trinity' was the name...

of where the test took place. Eh.

[edhopper]

6. It was named for a poem by

John Donne, Oppenheimer's favorite poet.

[rug]

9. "The Trinity" is part of a much longer poem.

A LITANY.

I.

THE FATHER.

FATHER of Heaven, and Him, by whom
It, and us for it, and all else for us,
Thou madest, and govern'st ever, come
And re-create me, now grown ruinous:
My heart is by dejection, clay,
And by self-murder, red.
From this red earth, O Father, purge away
All vicious tinctures, that new-fashioned
I may rise up from death, before I'm dead.

II.

THE SON.

O Son of God, who, seeing two things,
Sin and Death, crept in, which were never made,
By bearing one, tried'st with what stings
The other could Thine heritage invade ;
O be Thou nail'd unto my heart,
And crucified again ;
Part not from it, though it from Thee would part,
But let it be by applying so Thy pain,
Drown'd in Thy blood, and in Thy passion slain.

III.

THE HOLY GHOST.

O Holy Ghost, whose temple I
Am, but of mud walls , and condensèd dust,
And being sacrilegiously
Half wasted with youth's fires of pride and lust,
Must with new storms be weather-beat,
Double in my heart Thy flame,
Which let devout sad tears intend, and let—
Though this glass lanthorn, flesh, do suffer maim—
Fire, sacrifice, priest, altar be the same.

IV.

THE TRINITY.

O blessed glorious Trinity,
Bones to philosophy, but milk to faith,
Which, as wise serpents, diversely
Most slipperiness, yet most entanglings hath,
As you distinguish'd, undistinct,
By power, love, knowledge be,
Give me a such self different instinct,
Of these let all me elemented be,
Of power, to love, to know you unnumbered three.

V.

THE VIRGIN MARY.

For that fair blessed mother-maid,
Whose flesh redeem'd us, that she-cherubin,
Which unlock'd paradise, and made
One claim for innocence, and disseizèd sin,
Whose womb was a strange heaven, for there
God clothed Himself, and grew,
Our zealous thanks we pour. As her deeds were
Our helps, so are her prayers ; nor can she sue
In vain, who hath such titles unto you.

VI.

THE ANGELS.

And since this life our nonage is,
And we in wardship to Thine angels be,
Native in heaven's fair palaces
Where we shall be but denizen'd by Thee ;
As th' earth conceiving by the sun,
Yields fair diversity,
Yet never knows what course that light doth run ;
So let me study that mine actions be
Worthy their sight, though blind in how they see.

VII.

THE PATRIARCHS.

And let Thy patriarchs' desire,
—Those great grandfathers of Thy Church, which saw
More in the cloud than we in fire,
Whom nature clear'd more, than us grace and law,
And now in heaven still pray, that we
May use our new helps right—
Be satisfied, and fructify in me ;
Let not my mind be blinder by more light,
Nor faith by reason added lose her sight.

VIII.

THE PROPHETS.

Thy eagle-sighted prophets too,
—Which were Thy Church's organs, and did sound
That harmony which made of two
One law, and did unite, but not confound ;
Those heavenly poets which did see
Thy will, and it express
In rhythmic feet—in common pray for me,
That I by them excuse not my excess
In seeking secrets, or poeticness.

IX.

THE APOSTLES.

And thy illustrious zodiac
Of twelve apostles, which engirt this All,
—From whom whosoever do not take
Their light, to dark deep pits throw down and fall ;—
As through their prayers Thou'st let me know
That their books are divine,
May they pray still, and be heard, that I go
Th' old broad way in applying ; O decline
Me, when my comment would make Thy word mine.

X.

THE MARTYRS.

And since Thou so desirously
Didst long to die, that long before Thou couldst,
And long since Thou no more couldst die,
Thou in thy scatter'd mystic body wouldst
In Abel die, and ever since
In Thine ; let their blood come
To beg for us a discreet patience
Of death, or of worse life ; for O, to some
Not to be martyrs, is a martyrdom.

XI.

THE CONFESSORS.

Therefore with Thee triumpheth there
A virgin squadron of white confessors,
Whose bloods betroth'd not married were,
Tender'd, not taken by those ravishers.
They know, and pray that we may know,
In every Christian
Hourly tempestuous persecutions grow ;
Temptations martyr us alive ; a man
Is to himself a Diocletian.

XII.

THE VIRGINS.

The cold white snowy nunnery,
Which, as Thy Mother, their high abbess, sent
Their bodies back again to Thee,
As Thou hadst lent them, clean and innocent ;
Though they have not obtain'd of Thee,
That or Thy Church or I
Should keep, as they, our first integrity,
Divorce Thou sin in us, or bid it die,
And call chaste widowhead virginity.

XIII.

THE DOCTORS.

The sacred academy above
Of Doctors, whose pains have unclasp'd, and taught
Both books of life to us—for love
To know Thy scriptures tells us, we are wrote
In Thy other book—pray for us there,
That what they have misdone
Or missaid, we to that may not adhere.
Their zeal may be our sin. Lord, let us run
Mean ways, and call them stars, but not the sun.

XIV.

And whilst this universal quire,
That Church in triumph, this in warfare here,
Warm'd with one all-partaking fire
Of love, that none be lost, which cost Thee dear,
Prays ceaselessly, and Thou hearken too
—Since to be gracious
Our task is treble, to pray, bear, and do—
Hear this prayer, Lord ; O Lord, deliver us
From trusting in those prayers, though pour'd out
thus.

XV.

From being anxious, or secure,
Dead clods of sadness, or light squibs of mirth,
From thinking that great courts immure
All, or no happiness, or that this earth
Is only for our prison framed,
Or that Thou'rt covetous
To them whom Thou lovest, or that they are maim'd
From reaching this world's sweet who seek Thee
thus,
With all their might, good Lord, deliver us.

XVI.

From needing danger, to be good,
From owing Thee yesterday's tears to-day,
From trusting so much to Thy blood
That in that hope we wound our soul away,
From bribing Thee with alms, to excuse
Some sin more burdenous,
From light affecting, in religion, news,
From thinking us all soul, neglecting thus
Our mutual duties, Lord, deliver us.

XVII.

From tempting Satan to tempt us,
By our connivance, or slack company,
From measuring ill by vicious
Neglecting to choke sin's spawn, vanity,
From indiscreet humility,
Which might be scandalous
And cast reproach on Christianity,
From being spies, or to spies pervious,
From thirst or scorn of fame, deliver us.

XVIII.

Deliver us through Thy descent
Into the Virgin, whose womb was a place
Of middle kind ; and Thou being sent
To ungracious us, stay'dst at her full of grace ;
And through Thy poor birth, where first Thou
Glorified'st poverty ;
And yet soon after riches didst allow,
By accepting kings' gifts in th' Epiphany ;
Deliver us, and make us to both ways free.

XIX.

And through that bitter agony,
Which is still th' agony of pious wits,
Disputing what distorted Thee,
And interrupted evenness with fits ;
And through Thy free confession,
Though thereby they were then
Made blind, so that Thou mightst from them have gone ;
Good Lord, deliver us, and teach us when
We may not, and we may, blind unjust men.

XX.

Through Thy submitting all, to blows
Thy face, Thy robes to spoil, Thy fame to scorn,
All ways, which rage, or justice knows,
And by which Thou couldst show that Thou wast born ;
And through Thy gallant humbleness
Which Thou in death didst show,
Dying before Thy soul they could express ;
Deliver us from death, by dying so
To this world, ere this world do bid us go.

XXI.

When senses, which Thy soldiers are,
We arm against Thee, and they fight for sin ;
When want, sent but to tame, doth war,
And work despair a breach to enter in ;
When plenty, God's image, and seal,
Makes us idolatrous,
And love it, not him, whom it should reveal ;
When we are moved to seem religious
Only to vent wit ; Lord, deliver us.

XXII.

In churches, when th' infirmity
Of him which speaks, diminishes the word ;
When magistrates do misapply
To us, as we judge, lay or ghostly sword ;
When plague, which is Thine angel, reigns,
Or wars, Thy champions, sway ;
When heresy, Thy second deluge, gains ;
In th' hour of death, th' eve of last Judgment day ;
Deliver us from the sinister way.

XXIII.

Hear us, O hear us, Lord; to Thee
A sinner is more music, when he prays,
Than spheres' or angels' praises be,
In panegyric alleluias ;
Hear us, for till Thou hear us, Lord,
We know not what to say ;
Thine ear to our sighs, tears, thoughts, gives voice and word ;
O Thou, who Satan heard'st in Job's sick day,
Hear Thyself now, for Thou in us dost pray.

XXIV.

That we may change to evenness
This intermitting aguish piety ;
That snatching cramps of wickedness
And apoplexies of fast sin may die ;
That music of Thy promises,
Not threats in thunder may
Awaken us to our just offices ;
What in Thy book Thou dost, or creatures say,
That we may hear, Lord, hear us when we pray.

XXV.

That our ears' sickness we may cure,
And rectify those labyrinths aright,
That we by heark'ning not procure
Our praise, nor others' dispraise so invite ;
That we get not a slipp'riness
And senselessly decline,
From hearing bold wits jest at kings' excess,
To admit the like of majesty divine ;
That we may lock our ears, Lord, open Thine.

XXVI.

That living law, the magistrate,
Which to give us, and make us physic, doth
Our vices often aggravate ;
That preachers taxing sin, before her growth ;
That Satan, and envenom'd men—
Which will, if we starve, dine—
When they do most accuse us, may see then
Us to amendment hear them, Thee decline ;
That we may open our ears, Lord, lock Thine.

XXVII.

That learning, Thine ambassador,
From Thine allegiance we never tempt ;
That beauty, paradise's flower
For physic made, from poison be exempt ;
That wit—born apt high good to do—
By dwelling lazily
On nature's nothing be not nothing too ;
That our affections kill us not, nor die ;
Hear us, weak echoes, O, Thou Ear and Eye.

XXVIII.

Son of God, hear us, and since Thou
By taking our blood, owest it us again,
Gain to Thyself, or us allow ;
And let not both us and Thyself be slain ;
O Lamb of God, which took'st our sin,
Which could not stick to Thee,
O let it not return to us again ;
But patient and physician being free,
As sin is nothing, let it nowhere be.

An interesting choice.

http://desperadophilosophy.net/tag/john-donne-trinity-blast-los-alamos/

[edhopper]

11. especially from a secular Jew\Humanist

but like the "Now I become death" quote, I imagine it had to do with the specific words (probably about power) than any religious significance to him.

[Jim__]

14. According to wikipedia, Oppenheimer is not sure why he chose it.

From wikipedia:

The exact origin of the code name "Trinity" for the test is unknown, but it is often attributed to Oppenheimer as a reference to the poetry of John Donne, which in turn references the Christian notion of the Trinity (three-fold nature of God). In 1962, Groves wrote to Oppenheimer about the origin of the name, asking if he had chosen it because it was a name common to rivers and peaks in the West and would not attract attention, and elicited this reply:

I did suggest it, but not on that ground... Why I chose the name is not clear, but I know what thoughts were in my mind. There is a poem of John Donne, written just before his death, which I know and love. From it a quotation:

As West and East
In all flatt Maps—and I am one—are one,
So death doth touch the Resurrection.[a][19]

That still does not make a Trinity, but in another, better known devotional poem Donne opens,

Batter my heart, three person'd God.[20][21]

[AtheistCrusader]

18. He may have been retconning when he said that.

The poem he specified doesn't contain it, though the author of that poem does have a more famous work that does.

[Act_of_Reparation]

5. Good to see the Christian Left isn't above hurling accusations of heresy and apostacy at opponents.

Since that sort of shit has worked so well in the past, I am sure every "nuclearist" will proceed forthwith to the nearest convenient house of worship to beg forgiveness and return to the flock of the One True God.

What insufferable schlock.

[trotsky]

8. And blasphemy! Don't forget BLASPHEMY!

What should happen to blasphemers, I wonder?

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. The Liberal Christian Inquisition will sit them in the comfy chair...

...where they will be shamed, guilt-tripped, patronized, and made to listen to Dispatch's "The General" over and over and over and over and over and over again until they turn their swords to plowshares... and Doc Martens to Birkenstocks.

[beam me up scottie]

23. !

Your post is too good for the op, they don't deserve it.

[stone space]

32. I don't understand your references, especially since...

...it is the the folks in the Plowshares movement who tend to be thrown in prison for long periods of time at the hands of the State for practicing their religion.

The Liberal Christian Inquisition will sit them in the comfy chair...

Do you make fun of MLK as well for being religious?

Or Gandhi?

[Act_of_Reparation]

45. I understand that you don't understand.

Keeping up on current events is difficult.

Do you make fun of MLK as well for being religious?

Or Gandhi?

Point of interest: if you don't understand the jokes, how, pray tell, do you know what it is I'm poking fun at?

Oh, right. You don't.

Obviously.

[stone space]

51. So "Liberal Christian Inquisition" is a metaphor for trials put on by the State...

...in which Christians are repeatedly sentenced to years and sometimes decades in prison for practicing their religion?

[Act_of_Reparation]

59. No.

You know, you could stop guessing and just ask me what the joke is about. Not that this isn't miles more amusing, however.

[stone space]

33. What should happen to these militant Christians, I wonder?

What should happen to blasphemers, I wonder?

How can they be stopped?

They just keep Hammering.

And Hammering.

And Hammering.

And Hammering.

[struggle4progress]

21. It's an accusation of idolatry, not of heresy or apostasy

Idolatry is the worship of our own creations, including (for example) the figments of our imagination

This is a useful concept IMO and has often been applied in interesting ways: Francis Bacon's discussion of the four idols in his Advancement of Learning (say) seems useful to me

[Act_of_Reparation]

47. Oh, shit. I didn't realize.

Then everything they said is absolutely peachy.

[struggle4progress]

53. It's outrageous, isn't it? Not only do they have bizarre and disgusting religious ideas -- such as

"You shall love your neighbor as you love yourself" -- but (worse still!) they oppose nuclear weapons! And then, to top it all off, instead of keeping their perverse views to themselves, they actually preach shamelessly in public that people should not worship gods made of metal! No wonder (as Tacitus reported) the Romans regarded them as haters of mankind

Just to show how depraved these folk really are, and how their ideas seduce others, here are some recent news stories:

... Sister Megan Rice, an 85-year-old nun, and her colleagues, Michael Walli and Greg Boertje-Obed will receive the "Nuclear Free Future Award" from the activist groups Beyond Nuclear and Green Cross International ... They are being give the "Resistance" award for the July 2012 intrusion, where they cut fences, painted slogans, and tossed human blood on a building at Y-12. A press release called it an "act of non-violent civil disobedience against the immorality of nuclear weapons" ...
Y-12 protesters to be honored for "civil disobedience"
WBIR Staff, WBIR
4:57 p.m. EDT August 3, 2015

... The trio of Transform Now Plowshares activists, known internationally for their break-in three years ago at the Y-12 Nuclear Weapons Complex, arrived Friday evening at the Church of the Savior in Knoxville for their first public appearance together since their release from prison in May. Greg Boertje-Obed, Sister Megan Rice and Michael Walli entered the complex in July 2012, spray-painted messages on the storage facility for bomb-grade uranium and splashed human blood before they were caught ... They served 14 months in prison before the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed their sabotage conviction and approved an "emergency motion" for their release. The trio will be resentenced on Sept. 15 but are not expected to return to prison because they've served more time than would be recommended for other charges ...
Y-12 protestors reunite for remembrance event
MJ Slaby
10:50 PM, Aug 7, 2015

... I waited until 1980, when my mother and I marched from the United Nations to Central Park for the abolition of nuclear weapons. My awareness grew through the peace communities and civil resistance at the government's nuclear test site in the Nevada desert where 1,000 weapons of mass destruction were detonated. There, on sacred land ceded by treaty to the Western Shoshone people, I reflected upon their stories and wisdom, and about pollution of water, air and soil by radioactive fallout. The world continues to feel the effects in physical and psychic disease from the fallout of these weapons ...
Time for silence, speaking
By Sister Megan Rice
Published 6:56 pm, Friday, August 7, 2015

... in a wave, the 120 protesters crossed Scarboro Road and hung origami peace cranes on the black security fence ... Greg Boertje-Obed, Sister Megan Rice and Michael Walli .. marched alongside the other protesters ...
Peace activists mark Hiroshima bombing anniversary at Y-12
MJ Slaby
8:23 PM, Aug 8, 2015

[Act_of_Reparation]

60. Aw, snap.

They oppose nuclear weapons, so I'll just shut the fuck up and let them justify that opposition with horrendous bronze age bullshit. My bad!

[edhopper]

7. Outside of the second Heston Planet of the Apes movie

nobody worshipped the Bomb in a religious sense. Yes Americans, made terrified of the Russian found comfirt in havinb the bomb, but that is far different than it supplanting religion. And an idol is a representation of a god, not the god iotself, so wrong on that account as well.
I would also hazard to guess that the more traditional religious people were, the more they felt good about the bomb. So again, it did not supplant religion.

Lame theory that falls under scrutiny.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Dr. Strangelove

[edhopper]

20. That was learning to Love the Bomb

not worship it.

[struggle4progress]

22. Dunno. One might make a case that Edward Teller, Curtis LeMay, and Henry Kissinger all worshipped

the Bomb

[edhopper]

24. In the way people worship Jesus and Allah

or are you just conflating two different meanings of worship?
I thought so.

[struggle4progress]

25. It doesn't seem to me that I am conflating meanings

[edhopper]

26. Did they really

Pray to the bomb and asking for it's love?
Did they think the bomb had supernatural powers that could violate the laws of nature?
Please explain how Teller, Kissinger, etc. worshipped the bomb like others worship God?
And did Teller worship the A Bomb as well as his H Bomb?

[struggle4progress]

27. We use too many words too differently to have a productive discussion

[edhopper]

28. fine

[stone space]

34. Polytheistic pissing match.

And did Teller worship the A Bomb as well as his H Bomb?

My god's bigger than your god.

[stone space]

30. Certainly, the theology of the Plowshares movement is in opposition to...

...just war theology, which, given from where this movement arises, might be a good point for comparison.

I would also hazard to guess that the more traditional religious people were, the more they felt good about the bomb. So again, it did not supplant religion.

Lame theory that falls under scrutiny.

More lame or less lame than just war theology, its major competitor within the faith?

[cleanhippie]

12. Another shotgun blast of ignorance.

Talk about idolatry.

[trotsky]

13. ...

[stone space]

31. More like the drip, drip, drip of a leaky faucet.

Last edited Sat Aug 8, 2015, 06:38 AM - Edit history (4)

Another shotgun blast of ignorance.

Or the equalizer bunny.

They just keep doing it.

Their Hammers keep falling on those gods of metal, again and again and again and again...

Why do they keep doing it?

How do they keep doing it?

And did you have any idea just how many different types of Hammers there actually are before they started carrying out that prophesy from Isaiah 2-4?



(This atheist is simply amazed at the wide variety of Hammers used by the Plowshares movement in the practice of their religion.)

[cleanhippie]

42. More like the rat a tat tat of endless blather firing from your extended magazine.

Your worship of the metal God is absurd to me, but to each their own. Fire away, the world is watching.

[skepticscott]

15. A much bigger problem

is the idolatry of nukeularism.

[edhopper]

16. GWB

right?

[stone space]

35. nuclearism (noun)

nuclearism

noun nuclear·ism

: dependence on or faith in nuclear weapons as the means for maintaining national security

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nuclearism

[skepticscott]

36. You missed the target completely, dude

Better reload and try again.

Seriously, did you not get the point of my post?

[stone space]

37. Any thoughts on the Plowshares movement? (nt)

[skepticscott]

38. It's OK if you didn't get it, dude

But if you want other people's opinion on Plowshares, the polite thing to do would be to offer your own in-depth thoughts about them first, instead of just repeating what other people have said.

[stone space]

39. Just trying to keep the thread on topic.

But if you want other people's opinion on Plowshares, the polite thing to do would be to offer your own in-depth thoughts about them first, instead of just repeating what other people have said.

As a militant atheist, I most certainly support what these militant Christians are doing 100%. As that old Charlie King song goes, for swords into plowshares, the hammer has to fall.

(I'm pretty sure that I've mentioned that before more than once, so the regulars here won't find that particularly surprising.)

You?

The Hammer Has to Fall

Charlie King

My name is Daniel Berrigan, chaplan at a hospice for the dying.
I have seen the face of death. It is for life, I bring this hammer down.

My name is Molly Rush. I have six children, they deserve a future.
I strike this blow today for the children all the world around.

I hear the prophets' cry of hope ring through the prison wall.
We've waited thirty centuries to see that hammer fall.
If we think we've got thirty more, we cannot see at all.
For swords into plowshares, the hammer has to fall.

My name is Elmer Maas. Were this a peaceful world, I'd sit and play piano.
But lacking Nero's concience, I could not watch that fire devour the land.

My name is John Schuchardt. I am no stranger to the prison that awaits us.
But where genocide is legal, I stand an outlaw with a hammer in my hand.

I hear the prophets' cry of hope ring through the prison wall.
We've waited thirty centuries to see that hammer fall.
If we think we've got thirty more, we cannot see at all.
For swords into plowshares, the hammer has to fall.

Dean Hammer is my name. Mica and Isahia my tradition.
Oh, I tried to be their scholar, but could not escape their logic in the end.

My name is Philip Berrigan. In world war II I flew the bombing missions.
Now with every blow I strike today, I say the bombs will never fall again.

I hear the prophets' cry of hope ring through the prison wall.
We've waited thirty centuries to see that hammer fall.
If we think we've got thirty more, we cannot see at all.
For swords into plowshares, the hammer has to fall.

Carl Cabott is my name. I have lived and worked among the third world peoples.
I've seen corporations flourish, while the poor were left to fight for every breath.

My name is Anne Montgomery. My life spent in community with women.
I bring their healing power to this factory of of carnage and of death.

I hear the prophets' cry of hope ring through the prison wall.
We've waited thirty centuries to see that hammer fall.
If we think we've got thirty more, we cannot see at all.
For swords into plowshares, the hammer has to fall.

The hammer has to fall...

[mr blur]

40. You're a "militant atheist"?

Who knew . . . ?

[cleanhippie]

43. And a "mathematician", too!

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Also a 'logican' when he's not Yosemite Sam'ing it up on the forums.

[Lordquinton]

50. Oh sweet baby back jesus

Not the militant atheist line again. Go clean your rifle somewhere else. Maybe find a group who doesn't know what militant means.

[stone space]

54. You seem to be confused. Militant Pacifism has a long and proud history.

Maybe find a group who doesn't know what militant means.

Goes back way before the current Plowshares movement even existed.

[Lordquinton]

57. So now your comparing yourself to MLK?

Note also that you present arguments rooted in theology, militant atheists are a whole different kind of soldier. Which you know, but pretend otherwise.

[stone space]

61. This is a thread about militant nonviolence.

Sorry if the notion somehow offends your sensibilities.

[Act_of_Reparation]

72. What is militant nonviolence"?

You keep using this term assuming everyone knows what it means. What is "militant nonviolence"? What are the core tenets thereof? What distinguishes it, philosophically, from regular nonviolence?

[Lordquinton]

74. You're jumping all over the place and making no sense

Someone makes a comment and you reply with something related to a word that was said.

You started a thread about militant pacifism, then bring up beina militant atheist. The two things are wholey unrelated.

Tell me how all this idolizing of religion ties into your militant atheism?

[AtheistCrusader]

17. Firing blanks again, home skillet.

First shot was not named "The Trinity". It's just "Trinity". Period. End of code name.

Sedan shot wasn't called 'The Sedan'. Boxcar was not 'The Boxcar' shot. Etc.
It's also not entirely clear what Oppenheimer was actually thinking of. The poem he suggested as the source he may have been thinking of, contains no such reference.

Author is fabricating bullshit out of thin air. Pretty good, maybe he's a god?

[stone space]

29. Don't shoot the messenger.

Author is fabricating bullshit out of thin air.

The author is reporting research on a movement of the Catholic Left called the Plowshares movement.

Is it your assertion that the religious movement being researched in her book does not exist?

Or is it just that you have problems with the theology of the movement she is reporting on?

[AtheistCrusader]

41. Messenger or hitman? If at the end of the day you need to put the gun down, might not be a messenger

The author has a doubtful grasp of how to accurately relay facts without fabricating spin and nonsense.

[stone space]

44. Sharon Erickson Nepstad is a hitman?

Her research on the Plowshares movement seems to have struck a nerve, somehow.

[AtheistCrusader]

46. No, you.

Author made up shit in the first paragraph you excerpted. That does not bode well.

What I know about plowshares, I learned in school. Doesn't seem important.

The actual plowshares atomic testing program was an unmitigated disaster that irradiated untold millions of people, and threatens groundwater to this day.

[stone space]

55. What did you learn in school about the Plowshares movement?

What I know about plowshares, I learned in school. Doesn't seem important.

You must be a lot younger than I am.

It didn't even exist when I was in school.

[AtheistCrusader]

56. How old are you? That movement started several years before

I entered preschool.

[stone space]

62. I'm old as dirt, it seems. On September 9, 1980, I was 23. You? (nt)

[AtheistCrusader]

69. Two years old.

I fear I haven't matured much since.

[stone space]

70. So this movement has been ongoing throughout most of your lifetime.

Amazing that they've been able to keep it up, year after year, decade after decade, isn't it?

[AtheistCrusader]

71. It's laudable, but doesn't seem terribly effective.

I certainly support abolishing and eliminating all nuclear weapons worldwide.

Holding a gun to your neighbor's head as a matter of foreign policy doesn't make for good neighbors.

[cleanhippie]

49. What is it exactly with your obsession of guns and killing?

Perhaps you'd be more comfortable in the gun forum?

[stone space]

52. Does it disturb you to hear about what religious folks are doing?

Do you object to the theology of the Plowshares movement so deeply that you find discussion of their theology offensive even during that short period between August 6 and August 9?

Why do you object to the discussion of theology in the Religion room?

You seem to want to banish theological discussions to another forum.

Why?

Isn't this precisely why the Religion room exists in the first place?

[Lordquinton]

58. Holy non-sequiturs batman!

Who are you responding to?cause i see no posts that even remotely contain what you are claiming.

Perhaps you could stick to what people are saying and not respond to strawmen you make up out of nothing even remotely related to the topic at hand.

[stone space]

63. Is this not the correct forum for discussing religion and theology?

I don't understand the desire of some to move discussions of the theology of resistance of the Plowshares movement to other forums.

It started with attacks on the author, but of course, that's a diversion.

[AtheistCrusader]

73. Except, the author is really bad, with a feeble grasp of facts.

[Starboard Tack]

64. Well, that's a good question coming from one of our more prolific Gungeon posters

[Lordquinton]

75. At worst you just gave a compliment

Like Rubio when he said let's not make it about resumes because hillary would be the most qualified.

You really are bad with words, aren't you? Maybe if you listened rather than attacked you could improve.

[Starboard Tack]

77. Aha!

[Lordquinton]

78. Your wit is truly baffling

Much like your craven defense of homophobic language.

[stone space]

65. "On Freedom of Religion and Contempory Idolatry."

Fighting the Lamb's War: Skirmishes with the American Empire.

The Autobiography of Phillip Berrigan, with Fred A. Wilcox

(page 193 in the 1996 edition.)

snip--------------

We had a fine time between Christmas and the trial in May. Liz is home again, and though we know she will be leaving us soon, each day is a celebration. Not with streamers and balloons, but through reflection and preparation for the trial. Liz will undoubtedly be sentenced to prison. She acted out of love for her children, and for the children of the world. The National Security State considers her a dangerous person.

The Griffiths Plowshares defendants appeared before Judge Howard Munson, federal court judge, Northern District of New York. On bahalf of the seven defendants, Liz presented an argument, "On Freedom of Religion and Contempory Idolatry." She argued that nuclear weapons constitute a religion, and that this violates certain freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution. This, in part, is what she said to Judge Munson and the jury:

We are dealing with serious constitutional issues—namely, the issue of a national religion having been established in our country in violation of the First Amendment. The religion of national sovereignty or nuclearism is alive and flourishing, and its existence, its pre-eminence, its rituals, gods, priests, and high priests make serious encroachments on all of us. In fact—and this is the second part of our argument—violating our freedom of religion. This state religion not only compels acts that are prohibited by the laws of God but the state religion itself prohibits the free exercise of religion. The state religion compels a quality of loyalty focused on our acceptance of the existence of nuclear weapons as a necessity. Weapons we are expected to pay for, adulate, thank God for, become sacred objects of worship. And such worship is prohibited by the laws of God.

Nuclearism is the ultimate fundamentalism of our time. Above all, this is the idolatry against which we stand and because of which we stand in this court. And the modern state is the child of the nuclearist religion. In the years since 1945, the modern state has moved steadily in more and more authoritarian directions. The process was subtle. Leaders who insisted that the major stake in international conflict was the fate of democracy were the very ones who steadily eroded democratic content in the name of ‘National Security.’ Legally, we have witnessed a constitutional antipathy to standing armies give way to an expanding, permanent military establishment with the Pentagon as the cathedral of the nuclearist religion. We have seen the Executive Branch claim privileges to keep national security information secret without any correction from the judiciary. Judge Munson, this nuclear, national-security state is a new, as yet largely unanalyzed phenomenon in the long history of political forms and of civil religions.

Being constantly ready to commit the nation and the planet to a war of annihilation in a matter of minutes created a variety of structural necessities that contradict the spirit and substance of democratic government: secrecy, lack of accountability, permanent emergency, concentration of authority, peacetime militarism, plus an extensive apparatus of state intelligence and police.

Quoting Richard Falk and Robert Lifton, "Indefensible Weapons: The Political and Psychological Case Against Nuclearism", Liz informed the court that:

No king ever concentrated in his being such absolute authority over human destiny. ‘The claim by fallible human beings to inflict total devastation for the sake of the national interests of any particular state is an acute variety of idolatry.

snip---------------

“And, Judge Munson,” Liz continued, “this has all been done ‘legally,’ and it amounts to a congressionally established religion. ‘Congress will make no law with respect to the establishment of religion. . . .‘ Yet Congress has passed laws approving and funding the Manhattan Project, the continued arms race including the first strike arsenal of cruise, MX, Trident; the new scenario for winning a nuclear war. It requires that our taxes finance these projects. The bomb and nuclearism have been protected too by laws concerning national security, restrictions on free speech by government employees, loyalty and secrecy oaths required for security clearances. And now the laws of sabotage, laws that protect government property from destruction, and the conspiracy laws are used to punish and prosecute those who, from a perspective of conscience and Christian witness, would speak the truth, would resist the evil of nuclearism and the idolatry of nuclear violence. To so use these laws is to prohibit the free exercise of religion and violates the constitutional guarantee of this freedom.”

snip------------------

[trotsky]

66. So, turn the position you're against into a religion,

make it a holy war, and commence firing?

I guess that's always worked out pretty well before...

[stone space]

67. The Plowshares movement does not use violence.

and commence firing?

Using such violent language to characterize the actions of militant pacifists in the Plowshares movement is demonization of Christians at its worse.

You are confusing the Christian faith of the Plowshares movement with what thoughtful atheists like Noam Chomsky have referred to as the virulent religions of state worship.

[trotsky]

68. Oh, so a peaceful Holy War then?

Great! I'm sure that everyone who believes in the made-up evil religion being attacked will instantly see the light.

[Jim__]

76. "... the US population has become psychologically and politically dependent on it's nuclear capacity

Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not sure I see that as the problem. The real problem is that we are, largely, dependent upon our nuclear capacity. The Plowshares Movement's consciousness raising goal is admirable. I don't know how effective of a strategy it is to hammer on nuclear weapons. As a nation, we seem to put a lot of emphasis on the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty - our emphasis is usually on using it to stop other nations from building their own nuclear arsenal. Part of the treaty is also to work towards nuclear disarmament. I think that is crucial, and since the US already emphasizes this treaty, it seems like working for the disarmament portion of it would fit in with the rhetoric of the government. Does the Plowshares Movement direct any consciousness raising efforts in that direction?