2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIt should be over for Hillary: Party elites and MSNBC can't prop her up after Bernie's Michigan
miracle.
You wouldnt know it from watching TV last night or reading the national papers this morning but Bernie Sanders Michigan win ranks among the greatest upsets in presidential primary history.
Should he win the nomination it will be go down as the biggest upset of any kind in American political history.
Some key lessons, obvious to everyone but the media:
1. The old politics is over. The fault lines of the new politics are not cultural issues like guns, abortion and same-sex marriage that divide the Democratic and Republican bases. They are issues of political reform and economic justice that divide both partys elites from both parties bases, and the American people from their government. On these issues we find the elites of both parties shockingly alike. Among them: global trade; financial deregulation and prosecution of financial crimes; the social safety net including Social Security, Medicare, a living wage and health care for all; above all, the soft corruption of pay to play politics.
http://www.salon.com/2016/03/09/it_should_be_over_for_hillary_party_elites_and_msnbc_cant_prop_her_up_after_bernies_michigan_miracle/
morningfog
(18,115 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,874 posts)A 1.7% win! Falling further behind in the delegate count!
Miracles have a very low threshold these days.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)would be if her Goldman speech transcripts were in the public domain, her yucking it up with the wall street fat cats ensures Bernie's victory everywhere but you don't care because you are part of the problem, won't hold people to account.... good luck with that... I want people more informed not less.
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)She leads in the delegate count.
It's over!!!!!! Lol
How about we not dismiss that a majority of the people are voting Clinton. I have never seen a group so bent on dismissing the vote.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Read past the headline.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I did read it. I'm not buying the apocalyptic "dire warning" talk. It's normally not reserved for these parts. This has become borderline religious.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)That is simply you projecting what you want to believe about me.
You cannot get to your position using what I have actually said. That is the exact reason I have been spending less time here.
Cal33
(7,018 posts)Hillary. Somehow they all vote early. 9 have already voted in the primaries, only 2 are left.
In a few days, all will have voted. This accounts for Hillary's big lead.
There will be no more Southern States left to vote after this coming week, but there will still
be 28 states that have not yet voted - and most of them will be for Sanders -- especially the
really big states!
I'd say Sanders has a mighty good chance of winning!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Part of it is actually a blatantly false narrative.
Cal33
(7,018 posts)islandmkl
(5,275 posts)that will secede from the Union...as long as the demographics match the current 'Old Confederacy' make-up she will be golden...
Cal33
(7,018 posts)patient and wait.
Uglystick
(88 posts)not Hillary.
Have a nice Tuesday evening.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I normally have pretty solid evenings. Thanks. You as well.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Nitram
(22,932 posts)It's hard to reason with religious fanatics.
SCantiGOP
(13,874 posts)Reminds me more of the cults of personality like you see around Stalin, the Kim boys in North Korea, and various dictators around the world.
Nitram
(22,932 posts)But not to be compared to the totalitarians you list. But it totally explains the unhinged anti-Clinton rhetoric.
bigtree
(86,013 posts)...he's supposed to be taken seriously? What the heck does he know about winning an election?
He's all breathless over winning 2% more of the vote than Hillary in one state? I can't believe I wasted my time reading that drivel.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)seekthetruth
(504 posts)...case closed.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)bigtree
(86,013 posts)...or a revolution.
It just get more absurd everyday.
Gary 50
(382 posts)With the entire Democratic party establishment behind her, with the media solidly in her corner, with early polls showing her ahead by huge margins she is now in a virtual tie with Bernie. And Bernie is still gaining on her. She is a terrible candidate running an awful campaign where the more exposure she gets the less people like or trust her. Bernie's revolution is real. The status quo is being challenged and it is our only hope of real change. If you are thrilled with the abysmal corruption of the current system then by all means support Hillary. If you want a chance for a better country and a better world Bernie is your man. And please don't fall for the bullcrap that Bernie won't be able to accomplish his goals, that he is shooting for the moon. No one expects the Republicans to roll over and support his efforts to end the corruption, warmongering, and class warfare from the one percent. It will be a long process with incremental gains but at least we will have someone fighting for us instead of someone who is comfortable with and wants to preserve the system we now suffer under.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)You said:
When you should have said: How about we not dismiss that a majority of the people had voted Clinton.
Assumptions about the future can end up being embarrassing.
bullimiami
(13,110 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)/ignore.
Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)But her southern state well is quickly running dry.
Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)Ah....Sanders math. It's precious!
reformist2
(9,841 posts)If the Democrats let "super-delegates" decide the race, the party will self destruct.
Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)If he can't do that, the whole superdelegate argument will be moot.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)With her Super PAC (and hers and Bills breathtaking haul of $153 million in mostly corporate speaking fees), she is the living avatar of pay to play politics. She shouldnt be the Democratic nominee for president because she doesnt even know its wrong.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)she is almost in a parallel universe to Bernie where integrity is concerned.
Nitram
(22,932 posts)...fighting fire with fire is both fair and ethical. Once we have a democratic president in office, that person will appoint justices who will overturn Citizens United. It's that simple.
Fronkonsteen
(75 posts)/sarcasm
Nitram
(22,932 posts)Citizens United is the law of the land in this democracy. The only way to overturn it is to win the election. If Clinton's strategy is wrong and Bernie wins, more power to him!
LeFleur1
(1,197 posts)I really don't know. I'll have to google it.
I do know an amendment is passed by Congress then sent to states. It isn't an easy process. That's why we don't have a women's rights amendment. It went through that process and didn't pass.
After Congress, this is the next step for an amendment.
A proposed amendment becomes part of the Constitution as soon as it is ratified by three-fourths of the States (38 of 50 States). When the OFR verifies that it has received the required number of authenticated ratification documents, it drafts a formal proclamation for the Archivist to certify that the amendment is valid and has become part of the Constitution. This certification is published in the Federal Register and U.S. Statutes at Large and serves as official notice to the Congress and to the Nation that the amendment process has been completed.
No waving of a wand, no matter what Bernie tells you.
I found that Congress has overturned 10 cases. It isn't an easy thing, and right now it would be impossible. If the young people continue to stay home when Senators and Representatives are being elected as they did last election, there is no hope. And unless there is something free in it for them, I doubt they'll show up.
Nitram
(22,932 posts)There will be 2-3 more openings on the court over the next 8 years.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Try insulting some voters! Geez. Hillary supporters are so-o-o-o tone deaf!
Bernie Sanders IS overthrowing "Citizens United" right now, by his no-superpac, no corporate or bilionnaire money method of fundraising. $27 x 5,000,000 'little people.'
Especially if he wins the presidency, but even if he doesn't, his actions (which speak way louder than words) have already started to de-legitimize filthy campaign contributions.
Could be, by the time this ever comes to legal action, such as an amendment, the issue will already be settled because the American people will have started rejecting filthy campaign contribution candidates in a big way.
Several other democratizing measures are in order, and will help (short of an amendment and perhaps in coordination with an amendment movement): public funding of campaigns, use of public radio/TV for campaigning time for all candidates (instead of this resource wasting our time pushing Corporate candidates); get rid of jerrymandering; restore the Voting Rights Act (and make it stronger); end voter purges and voter ID laws that hurt the poor; national holiday for elections--and more.
Lots to do--none of which Clinton will even try to do, but all of which Sanders will work hard for, using the "bully pulpit" and every other tool of the President.
And stop shitting on young people!
Locrian
(4,522 posts)Theres a name for the bipartisan consensus of party elites: neoliberalism. It is an inconvenient name for many reasons but mostly because it seems odd that the worldview of the Republican elite would be an ideology with the root word liberal in its name but it is true, nonetheless. and may even shed a little light on the open, bitter breach between GOP elites and the party base. Democrats stayed loyal longer to their elites for two reasons. One is their love of two very talented politicians, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, whose charm and verbal dexterity masked deep differences with the base. The other is their fear of Republicans.
nails it.
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)be the nominee for the Democrat party.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)11 Bravo
(23,928 posts)(I was juror #2, and would respectfully request that henceforth you refer to my party by its proper name.)
On Thu Mar 10, 2016, 08:05 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Hillary is winning in pledged delegates and votes. It's not over by a long shot. Bernie will not
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1461076
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Democrat party????
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 10, 2016, 08:10 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seriously?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't like the term "Democrat" party any more than any other Democrat, but my likes and dislikes don't determine the TOS. LEAVE IT
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stupidest alert ever.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sanders supporter here. While the post is inane and not at all based in reality, this is a waste of an alert.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I reject the term, 'Democrat' party. DU has long stood against the use of this derogatory use of language that is IN FACT a republican smear of disrespect against the Democratic party.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Annoying and a reflection on the posters mindset, but not hideable by itself.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Your mask is slipping
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)So instead of typing "ic" you typed " "?
Sure.
jham123
(278 posts)what did you write that was offensive?
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...also used by many rightwingers to take the "democracy" out of the Democratic Party.
And this is why I am almost always against "hiding" posts and "banning" posters.
This was probably a typo, but it alerts me to the possibility that this poster is an RW troll. If "hidden" or "banned," I probably wouldn't have seen it. There are other tells and attitudes and ways of writing/speaking that can reveal a poster's true views. Some are more obvious than others. Good to be on alert for them so you don't get conned, or disrupted, or succumb to divisiveness instigated by a troll--i.e., insincere and chaos-producing poster, usually using short, hit 'n' run posts, to frustrate reasonable and informative discussion).
dana_b
(11,546 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Hillary has attracted 1 million more votes than Sanders. But, go ahead, rest on your laurels. I like that.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)This time in a manner of days.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)demanding that Bernie drop out.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)wasn't Iowa a tie? In what region are Nebraska and Kansas?
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)You didn't get the memo?
HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)Or who has the most likes on Facebook.
Quaint as it may seem, elections are won by individuals voting and as a result, delegates awarded.
Who has the most votes: Clinton
Who has the most awarded delegates: Clinton
Party elites didn't do that. MSNBC didn't control that. Regular people from all sized towns did. They looked at what Clinton had to say versus what Sanders did, and pulled the level for her.
Michigan wasn't the greatest political upset ever. Michigan was one of the greatest POLLING missteps ever.
1.5% in Michigan doesn't equal a national win.
Have a pleasant morning.
artyteacher
(598 posts)On predictwise.
Uglystick
(88 posts)Clinton's performance in Miami was horrible.
artyteacher
(598 posts)At over 90% for a while now.
Predictwise.com
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)who vote for the candidate they have been groomed to like by the media. The Party establishment and the media have unequivocally boosted coverage of Hillary and suppressed that of Bernie. This is obvious to even the most casual observer.
An informed electorate is waking up, and they don't like what they see so they aren't voting for her.
HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)They'd know to vote for Bernie.
I don't buy it but we are each entitled to our opinion.
Good luck to your candidate.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Hillary's campaign is based on identity politics. How else to explain how ostensible "liberals" who claim to be anti-war and to despise Citizen's United will line up to support a candidate soaked in Wall Street money and Iraqi blood?
jonestonesusa
(880 posts)Sanders' wins in Michigan, Minnesota, Colorado, and yes, Vermont demonstrate that his campaign is generating enthusiasm from many, many voters. The sold out mainstream media can't stand it, and Wall Street is freaking out, who will they pay now to get their lackeys appointed to mind the public treasury? Small donors financing a competitive campaign rather than fat cats and PACS doing the deciding. Instead of neoliberal pablum, a conversation about issues of economic justice, exactly as the OP states. What a breath of fresh air for the national Democratic party and the limousine liberals on TV to see and hear what a real progressive campaign looks like!!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)jonestonesusa
(880 posts)The lack of attention to the issues beyond the shirts and skins mentally of cheering in a horse race has helped dig the hole that we are all in. That's one of the things I like best about Sanders, who has run an issue focused campaign that dares to challenge the worn out solutions of supply side tax cuts, global trade and deregulation. At the end of the day, if we win with the status quo candidate, surprise surprise you get the status quo, at best.
Nitram
(22,932 posts)...chosen with a political effect in mind. If you want people to comment on an article, I'd suggest using a neutral and objective headline. Posting a controversial headline will get the intended reaction.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Nitram
(22,932 posts)Clinton is well ahead on delegates even when super delegates are removed from the equation. If and when Bernie gets ahead, super delegates may well decide to support Sanders instead of Clinton.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)1norcal
(55 posts)Well done shawn703, thanks.
treestar
(82,383 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)book_worm
(15,951 posts)noamnety
(20,234 posts)From the article people don't want to read:
"I often talk to Democrats who dont know Obama chose not to raise the minimum wage as president even though he had the votes for it; that he was willing to cut Medicare and Social Security and chose not to prosecute Wall Street crimes or pursue ethics reforms in government. They dont know he dropped the public option or the aid he promised homeowners victimized by mortgage lenders. They dont know and dont want to know. "
coyote
(1,561 posts)"If Democratic voters really use their heads, theyll see through the tactical arguments just like the voters of Michigan did and then walk into voting booths all over America and vote their hearts. Then there will be change."
OkSustainAg
(203 posts)at the brink of the turning of the tide. Bernie will be the nominee.
DinahMoeHum
(21,822 posts). . .by supporting her primary opponent:
https://timcanova.com/
https://www.facebook.com/TimCanovaForCongress/
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)MineralMan
(146,341 posts)lead, both in pledged delegates and the popular vote. That Salon writer is overstating the situation a great deal.
Now, it's possible that Senator Sanders will win the nomination. Just possible. He still has much to overcome, though, before he does that.
Lots of stuff is being written by pundits who want a specific outcome. That does not mean they're correct in their assessments. The primary race continues apace. We'll know more after next Tuesday.
Right now, though, candidate Clinton has a good lead, despite having lost Michigan by a 1.5% margin. Keep watching.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
MineralMan
(146,341 posts)On a similar subject, I'm always surprised when people conflate editorial opinion pieces in the media as the opinion of the media outlet itself. We see that here a lot.
{MEDIA SOURCE} SAYS HILLARY LIED!!!11!
Then, when you go to the website, it turns out that some guest editorial writer said something like that, without ever using the word "lied." But, then, most people don't bother to follow links, I guess.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She doesn't have the popular vote. She polls behind every Republican.
MineralMan
(146,341 posts)Clinton, Hillary Diane Rodham 5,021,902 58.78%
Sanders, Bernard "Bernie" 3,375,457 39.51%
Source: http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/D
The General Election information is premature. Until there are actual nominees for both parties, such polling is useless. We can start paying attention to that after the convention. Until then, we have a primary race underway. That's the only thing people are voting on right now. You can see the popular voting results for that above. (Note: Some caucus states do not report individual voting numbers)
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She struggles outside of Dixie
MineralMan
(146,341 posts)At this point, she has a strong lead. Until more primaries are held, I can't predict whether that will hold. We will find out, though, won't we? There are votes being recorded. They are about at the same percentages as the delegate count, which is to be expected, since pledged delegates are allocated according to the votes. The popular vote matters in the primaries, too.
Beaverhausen
(24,472 posts)can you show me the polls you are looking at?
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)This is really getting ridiculous.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)to win by 2%, you'd just shrug your shoulders?
It's momentum
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Didn't have faith in the voters to figure things out, I guess.
But they said TWENTY POINTS DOWN. Though Sanders has overcome such predictions time and again, still, a lot was at stake with this one--the momentum of Sanders' campaign.
I approached following the returns in an anxious and depressed state of mind. Thought the Corporate Media and Wall Street and the MIC would surely win this time, the bastards, with all their disinformation. I imagine a lot of other Sanders supporters felt that way as the returns started coming in...
Then, all I can say is that what happened FELT LIKE a miracle. I couldn't believe my eyes! I kept re-reading the returns!
Holy Toledo, we WON Michigan! We frigging WON IT!
The wrongness of the polls certainly contributed to this malaise/miracle feeling. But also, I was thinking, there is no way a candidate like Bernie Sanders--whom I believe really and truly represents the vast majority of Americans--can win in these circumstances: the party itself rigged against him, with no policy of fair play whatsoever in our own party, the Corporate Media black-holing him time and again, the entire transglobal uber-rich elite pouring money into her coffers, the use of dirty player David Brock, and on and on. How can he win?
Well, he just keeps doing it.
It is no wonder at all that he is "behind." Look at the handicaps he's been campaigning under! To me, it's a miracle that he's gotten this far. He's still viable. Wow! And his popularity just keeps going up. He has no negatives, and no "baggage," as they say. He's a quite straightforward, honest man. His "honesty and trustworthy" polls are extremely high. In national polls, he's beating Trump by twice the % that Clinton is. And Clinton's "honesty and trustworthy" polls are very, very low.
What does that tell us? It tells us that the Democratic Party establishment is trying to block the candidate who has the best chance of winning in November. So it's not just delegate counts or vote counts that are important right now--especially since Clinton's come mostly from far rightwing states. It's more, how far will our own party establishment go--in collusion with Big Media and Big Money--to block the non-establishment candidate who can win?
It is NOT a fair fight. But Sanders is winning anyway.
He won Michigan DESPITE all the handicaps. And it was not really a "miracle." It was an awakening of the voters to the actual policy content of the campaign, and to Clinton's unwholesome ties and Sanders' freedom from such ties. His success is based on real things--things that matter to us all. Her success thus far is largely based on a rigged system--money she shouldn't have taken and shouldn't be using, party leaders who are also taking dirty money, the clear bias of the DNC and state parties, the flabby brains of our political punditry, a Corporate media narrative that she was "inevitable," name recognition and gender bias.
As a 70 year old woman (and lifelong Democrat), I can understand the gender bias. But it doesn't sway me. Sanders will be far better for the majority of women. Anyway, that's how I see it. The Sanders campaign couldn't be done. And yet it IS being done. Maybe "miracle" IS the right word for it.
beaglelover
(3,496 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)You all expected him to cave after Super Tuesday!!
Get over YOURSELF!!
ReallyIAmAnOptimist
(357 posts)...what is happening in the Dem primary and in across America in general (a populist awakening).
Instead of a regurgitation of punditry talking points his keen insights are refreshing. While the punditry continues their out of step talking points... the electorate is moving on.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)I have seen a couple of other columns by him that are as good as this one.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)A cartoon from just before the First World War:
As long as the rich keep getting richer...
arcane1
(38,613 posts)This damn sure wouldn't be the first time!
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)corrupt corporatist DINO candidate like Hillary down our throats again.
senz
(11,945 posts)All of it.
The sense of this person being, literally, shoved at us -- shoved by the corporate media, shoved by sold-out commentators, and shoved, hourly, by her pushers here. For me, it elicits a strong gut sense of, "Ick. Please get this away from me."
"Horrible" goes through my mind with everything I see and hear of this person.
"Lying" is the norm, like breathing. It's so normal, it almost doesn't register anymore.
"Corrupt" is perhaps the core, the very center, of what's wrong.
"Corporatist" is her proven, lived, undeniable ideology.
And DINO almost goes without saying at this point.
And then there's the message itself: never again. Oh I hope so. This is the message we, as Democrats, need to make very, very, very clear to the DNC: don't ever try this again.
So thank you. (Oh, and say hi to Mt. Rainier for me. Sometimes I miss it, and the lakes, the Sound, the charming hills/districts, the islands.)
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I'm closer to Mt. Hood, but get up to Seattle on occasion, so will say hello for you then.
I love the area generally, but yesterday was one of those freaking oppressing non-stop rain days that make me fantasize about moving to the Mohave desert or something. But I'm over it today.
senz
(11,945 posts)I remember Mt. Hood, such a picturesquely smooth, pointed little beauty. We took trips into Oregon to visit a sister attending Reed and a charming hippie aunt who had a farm in Eugene. But I know what you mean about non-stop rain, and always pronounced anything named "Rainier" (mountain, beer, bank) as "rainy-er," and when my company offered the possibility of transferring to a sunnier clime, I jumped at it. But the northwest remains beautiful and special.
Thanks for an excuse to get nostalgic!
Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)Bargle bargle bargle argh!
senz
(11,945 posts)The Midway Rebel
(2,191 posts)Wrong side of history.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Forgot about Bill Curry.
The River
(2,615 posts)"When she tries to distract the base or paper over its differences with elites, voters see through her, even if, in their hearts, they dont want to."
That explains the intransigence to facts over at Camp W.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)She remains woefully out of touch with the public mood in other ways. This week she began telling voters she and Bernie were pals and that it was time to wrap up their little primary so she could focus on the Republicans. As anyone outside her tone deaf campaign could have told her, she came off as entitled, presumptuous and condescending. The voters arent done deciding yet. When they are, theyll let the candidates know.
-------------
When party and press elites parroted her line, it had the same effect on Democrats as Mitts anti-Trump speech had on Republicans. When Hillary sweeps vital differences under the rug to be replaced with stale tactical arguments, the reporters are perfect patsies because all they know are tactics.
In the end, thinking only tactically makes you a bad tactician. When revolutions in the air-- polls, money and ads mean far less. Reporters who know nothing else cant conceive how voters choosing among a democratic socialist, a pay-to-play politician and a fascist might pick door number one. They bought Hillarys myth of inevitability, but as Lawrence of Arabia told Prince Ali in the desert, nothing is written. If Democratic voters really use their heads, theyll see through the tactical arguments just like the voters of Michigan did and then walk into voting booths all over America and vote their hearts. Then there will be change.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)The fault lines are manufactured by the plutocrats. The people agree on most stuff, they just keep being told that they are to hate the other guy because __________________.