2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNYT: WA, AK, HI Don't Count - Too White
As expected here is how they lead with Sanders big wins today (HI expected).
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/us/politics/election-results.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Mr. Sanders found a welcome tableau in the largely white and liberal electorates of the Pacific Northwest, where just days after routing Mrs. Clinton in Idaho he repeated the feat in Washington. With a handful of precincts still reporting, he was leading Mrs. Clinton by more than 40 percentage points. He performed even better in Alaska, winning 82 percent of the vote.
Starts with white/liberal. I'll get to the white part later, but Alaska is bastion for liberal electorate?
His victories on Saturday were not unexpected; both Washington and Alaska have relatively low percentages of the black and Latino voters who have bolstered Mrs. Clintons campaign this year, and he has done well in states holding caucuses.
Well WA has 11% Latino population which is in line with national average. Seems like it didn't stop Sanders from winning big in CO either. We also know he did well with Latinos in Illinois and Iowa. Sure he lost them in FL/TX, but he also lost the white vote there.
In terms of dismissing his wins as its just another white state, well WA white population is 77% which is only 5% higher than the national average. Alaska is very diverse with only 66% white population. Hawaii has minority white population. I can't believe they decided to play the white card even today! Come on MSM find new ways to dismiss Bernie.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Holy shit...
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)funny shit they post
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)maybe a little more diverse than Washington. What's odd to me about these analyses is that apparently to the media, the only people who qualify as "minorities" or nonwhites are African Americans. Alaska has a significant Native population, a lot of Asians, many Pacific Islanders, Filipinos, but yet all these people are to be considered "white" or not minority voters? I think it's stupid.
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I said we were less diverse than Hawaii, more diverse than Washington. At least according to the demographics that I've looked at.
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I think we must be misunderstanding each other. I don't really care, either, just talking.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)and missed some pieces of the conversation. I apologize for misunderstanding.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)They should be focusing on getting the right message and trusting that a diverse coalition bands about it. I suspect they would. Identity politics is cynical pandering. It is also a mask for policies that do not truly represent the economic and political best interests of the constituents but focuses on wedge issues of each individual "minority".
Unfortunately for Clinton, the interests of the minorities in HI, AK, WA are directly in conflict with her anti-environment pro-capitalist agenda.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)He already has the right message and an increasingly diverse coalition is forming. I know Republicans that are now wrestling with the idea that they may be Democratic Socialists!
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)But I hope you have a nice day. And I hope nobody's GIF gets up in your face.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to a derogatory comment I've seen today.
mahina
(17,726 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)the OP completely mischaracterizes the article, which is just an overview of the progress both campaigns have made so far.
I don't know where all this fake outrage is coming from. Am I the only person who actually scanned the article? It would seem so.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Maybe.
I actually read the thing, and I thought the OP was spot on.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)WTF?
yuiyoshida
(41,868 posts)Asian population than any state. California is probably next...and way to go Hawaii...Mahalo!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)JPnoodleman
(454 posts)Zira
(1,054 posts)It's like being a Goldwater campaign supporter. It actually DOESN'T take much good judgement to not be part of that and choose the right side of history.
Most people did it without blinking an eye.
I'll take those Bernie voter's judgement as most likely the people who have been consistently on the right side of history. The people calling them worthless have probably had a consistent record of being on the wrong side of history. Wonder how many voted consistently against civil rights in one form or other - whether it was pro-war, anti-immigration, anti-gay, etc.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)Let's place the blame where it belongs--on corporate-controlled media shilling/lying for Clinton.
I'm not cool attacking posters who aren't in the thread to defend themselves.
And I was elected an alternate delegate for Bernie Sanders today.
Let's keep it civil, please.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)I've been here since I got back from caucus and I didn't see you
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was fun. Bernie won big, but we had fun. Drama after but, i think it got solved.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)We'll see how long it lasts.
Cha
(297,890 posts)Funny enough
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1584389
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
antisemit posting on DU is an insult to all of use. racist people should be excluded from DU. Posts from member has pushed anti jewish bull shit and is still doing it!
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:17 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
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Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Guess which one I was?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Cha
(297,890 posts)As you can see most of the jury wasn't buying it.. this time."
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hopefully he will look into it.
Cha
(297,890 posts)in order to get Hillary supporters "Flagged for Review".
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It really is an abuse of the system to alert on a post that you do not even see anything wrong with.
Cha
(297,890 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)That doesn't mean I can't state my opinion here.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)I'm paying more attention to Transparency pages and notice many pushing 10 hides, at least one in double-digits.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I think there are no innocents here. I also see many hides (on both sides of this "war" that are not deserved. But then, I'm not engaged in this battle, so I have the benefit of clarity I guess. Have a wonderful rest of the weekend.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the two jurors that voted to hide ... did so, with no explanation.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)But I have tired of the abusive postings and just vented with a bit of humor.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)That was written by bravenak in an alternate universe.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1584349
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Callouts of other DU members is a violation of the TOS. Please hide.
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Wilms
(26,795 posts)"You take your chances." Unless that has changed, along with time-outs, amnesty, etc.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)but the article did not at all.
Hilarious to see you all hoodwinked into hating the NYT for a boilerplate progress report. The OP should be ashamed for misleading you all.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)That said, what I posted could have been kept to myself.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Hawaii. The bullshit propaganda is coming from us here, not the NYT. LOL.
Wilms
(26,795 posts):reference:
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)propaganda. And everyone assumed the OP was true. Embarrassing, to say the least.
It's like watching Pied Pipers all over GDP these days. Funny!
Wilms
(26,795 posts)And I don't know what else to say that Gandhi hasn't.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)OK, only with AK it is even more extreme. Both States have large Native populations, AK has the largest in the country, OK has the largest in the continental 50. So like it or not, it is crass and thoughtless to describe those places as 'homogeneous' to suit a narrative and that has been done dozens of times.
AK is less white than South Carolina, North Carolina or Alabama. OK is less white than either Illinois or the US as a whole, far less white than Texas.
And yet DU says Hillary wins in 'diverse' places like Illinois and Texas and no one says they are 'homogeneous and lacking in diversity' even though compared to OK or AK they do lack diversity. AK 26% white. Illinois 77%. Texas 80%. But we hear about AK and OK lacking that Texas diversity. Why is that? Because bullshit, that's why. Because people who tout diversity and then don't count all the minorities are full of bullshit.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)one AMERICAN DEM'S vote less or more than another AMERICAN DEM'S vote? Fuck all the put downs of the states. People love where they're from so knock it off. No state hold the lock on virtue. None.
LiberalArkie
(15,731 posts)On Sun Mar 27, 2016, 07:33 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
fuck this color issue/litmus test to who is a better American. since when is
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1586319
REASON FOR ALERT
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roguevalley
(40,656 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)only briefly mentioned in the article, despite the OP setting their hair on fire. And then a dozen people go on about Hawaii- which was NOT mentioned. Your post focuses on the demographics (as did the OP), but in the article, it briefly mentions the stats and goes on to a very neutral piece about the state of the races.
So a lot of DUers got fooled by the OP. Which is their fault for not reading the article.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)As in, an editorialization of what the NYT piece was about.
And that's done ALL the time on DU, and I don't always appreciate it, but I'm not always bothered by it, either.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)was designed to go off the rails, and it did- spectacularly. You can tell no one bothered to read it, and went straight to outrage.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)It's not like anyone thought we were going to bomb the moon.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Bums me out because people used to care about the veracity (or at least the source) of what they posted- at least regarding elections. We have fallen so far here, it's not much more than shit slinging at this point. What a waste.
Number23
(24,544 posts)don't know why anyone still bothers with this forum. And if he does win Hawaii, no one would make that claim about it being "too white" anyway because everyone knows that's not true.
But even if he does win it, it doesn't make nearly as sweeping and dramatic changes that the folks here so desperately want it to be. There is too much desperation around here now and what you said about "propaganda" is right.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Without working so hard to create a racial divide this primary season Hillary would not be doing so well. So congrats to Hillary supporters for a somewhat 'successful', if not artful, smear campaign.
.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)"Useless white supremacist liberals," indeed. Wonder whose tears Marissa is sipping tonight.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)As a white person, I set aside my initial emotional reactions long enough to at least try to listen to all perspectives, also in the name of civility (also, I won't presume to tell PoC how they may and may not express their needs and desires when I'm probably ignorant of what many of those needs and desires are).
Just because I was lurking then, and did not wish to get into the flamewar (also in the interests of civility), does not mean I am completely clueless as to what went down.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)Not a star member so I can't do an advanced search. I might have made a dumbassed post or two that I would probably regret if it was shown to me now, but I certainly had no interest in pouring gasoline on the flames for days and weeks.
I'm certainly not the type of person to go find people's RL contact info and go harass them; I prefer to leave that domain to Donald Trump
I don't chase people from forum to forum either
Seems pretty civil to me
Number23
(24,544 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)But I sure wish I could Control+Z it the hell up.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)What the fuck else do you think?
Response to SMC22307 (Reply #27)
Post removed
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Shouldn't be difficult for you to grasp.
Shut her up? Dear God, no, I want a bright light shone on her posts. Especially ones regarding relations between blacks and Jews.
Sanders crushing Clinton in WA, AK, and (likely) HI is driving my enthusiasm. What a great day!
Number23
(24,544 posts)If you think for one second you've done anything else, you are as mistaken about that as you are apparently in thinking that I have even the tiniest interest in discussing anything with the likes of you.
And open board or not, my question was a specific one to a specific person and your chiming in was as dumb as it was unnecessary. We all know you have nothing better to do but it was nice of you to confirm it anyway. Anybody else black you need to chase after today or are you just about done?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Are we supposed to know these things? Is a master file kept somewhere?
Number23
(24,544 posts)equally relentlessly boring ire.
PLEASE go and try to waste someone else's time.
Keep going... I'm almost to 2,000!
Number23
(24,544 posts)which is pretty unbelievable as it is. All of that cackling over Sanders only losing by 250 delegates now instead of 305!
You are much more transparent than you could ever hope to imagine. 2000 posts and 1973 of them are you chasing after black posters, most of whom wouldn't give you the time of day if we were wearing 100 watches. But I'm sure it's all because of "policy" differences. Or just some fascinating coincidence. Definitely.
Edit: Pretty sure that the admins are watching your behavior in this thread very closely. Between your comments to me, my post being hidden in response to your nastiness and your stalking bravenak's posts upthread, hopefully your typically unprovoked, 100% needless and pointless nastiness is being seen not only by every poster here but by the folks that have the authority to decide who does and does not post here.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Prove it. That's a nasty accusation, twenty-three, but typical of you. I know you're mad the truth came out about your little buddy, but don't take it out on me.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)So very tired of these claims of stalking. I am black, but I don't have these problems. Maybe it is time for another attention-seeking post to Skinner.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Maybe I need to send my own attention-seeking e-mail to Skinner, or spend some time in ATA, which I rarely do. That was a nasty accusation, and it stands. Welcome to the new and improved DU!
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I have been similarly berated by the same poster for replying where I wasn't wanted, accused of stalking, etc.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)with that poster, and it's quite tedious. I laugh when demands are made that certain posters never reply to her.
Thanks... it only took me just over three years. LOL Onward and upward!
Cha
(297,890 posts)Response to Cha (Reply #72)
DemocratSinceBirth This message was self-deleted by its author.
Omaha Steve
(99,818 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Accusing another poster of stalking AA posters is rude and over-the-top: "Anybody else black you need to chase after today"
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:21 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
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Zira
(1,054 posts)for replying to you.... weird.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Why are you conveniently ignoring that in order to needlessly announce that you are about putting ME on ignore for responding in kind to that individual? I have no idea who you are or why you'd think that I'd care that you're putting me on ignore.
Your comment is what's weird.
Zira
(1,054 posts)if you are selecting several things on your desktop and you accidentally end up with a lot of copies of them a control+z will undo them.
It doesn't delete anything.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)And you wonder why you're getting "all this attention?"
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and a few other things, I can (almost) call it. Though people are getting real antsy that they have not finished counting and they keep delaying the release hour by hour.
Eom
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Asian, Latino, Native populations don't count because it ruins the narrative.
Buzz cook
(2,474 posts)Life is stranger than fiction.
jfern
(5,204 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)So claiming that Bernie can't win in "diverse" states is a giant crock.
I turned it on for about a minute this afternoon to get results. What I saw was Joy Reid and another commentator explaining, once again, how Bernie's core support is white people so that explains why he was winning in Alaska and Washington. Obviously, besides the thinly-veiled attempt to accuse Bernie's campaign of being racist, this shows East Coast ignorance of the diversity of the West Coast, where we have very large communities of people of Indian, Vietnamese, Korean, Chinese, Native American, Japanese, Pacific Islander and Filipino ancestry, among other non-African American groups. I'd already stopped watching MSNBC shows; now I will also get my quick primary results elsewhere.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)MFM008
(19,827 posts)I can say almost every person of color was in an HRC group, most Latinos in HRC group.
Young people, mostly white, some middle agers in Sanders group, 45 and older in HRC.
A lot of white men in Sanders groups also young couples.
Older singles and black couples , retired military and retirees in HRC.
I'm 57,female, white in HRC but so was my sons 33 year old girlfriend and my brothers latino girlfriend.
Both groups cordial until a Sanders supporter demanded an end to super delegates.
Hillary supporters turned away in our district for coming late- 4 of them. Sanders won by 2 votes.
Packed like sardines at the local high school because they combined a number of districts.
One thing everyone in the building agreed heartily on................................defeating the republicans.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,718 posts)Sad but not surprising her post was hidden for using the same language on her interlocutor that was used on her. I would say more but I don't want my post hidden.
PEACE
DSB
ericson00
(2,707 posts)so kids go to hang out, and anti-Clinton agitprop works very well there.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Voter: I blame Clinton for the rise of ISIS.
Read it now before its edited out.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,718 posts)Voter: I blame Clinton for the rise of ISIS.
Read it now before its edited out.
-Barack _America
Maybe he was channeling Rudy Giuliani
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/24/politics/rudy-giuliani-hillary-clinton-isis/
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(22,918 posts)As you point out in the OP, Sanders has done fine overall with Latinos even though he doesn't always win that demographic in this, the primary phase of the electorate. He is doing very well with Native Americans and has been improving his vote share with African Americans outside of the South.
But the real point is that he is wining over atypical white voters for Democrats in recent decades. The media is so used to repeating the familiar mantra about the Democratic coalition; the young, minorities, and upper income white liberals. Bernie broadens our base by winning over working class whites also without pandering to the Right or watering down the Democrats inclusive message. THAT is how Democrats retake the House.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)When Hillary was talking about how she was winning the white vote?
B2G
(9,766 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)The author later refines it a bit into "not much black and latino population."
But that does not eliminate the distortion introduced earlier in the article. Hawaii is clearly not "largely white" as white people are only about 1/4 the population. And looking at this map on page 11 it's clear that much of yesterday's states looks kinda like the deep south in terms of white population density.
Furthermore, Sanders had better victory margins in counties with fewer whites. It looks as if white voters might have been the only thing keeping Clinton viable in those states.
The article is dishonest and tries to buttress the notion that Sanders only appeals to white voters when that has obviously not been true for some time.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)the article is either intentionally misleading or just sloppy, as the writing seems to imply that the author considers Hawaii to be part of this "largely white" region she's describing.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)voters. She made a big distinction in describing the electorate of those states. The OP blurs the truth, is much more misleading or "sloppy" than the actual article they posted. Interesting.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)Here's the relevant paragraph:
The paragraph structure they use is fairly straightforward. Introductory sentence states the main point, and the rest of the paragraph expands on it. The very purpose of breaking a paragraph is to give the cue that the author is moving to a new point. No break, no cue, implied link.
The author kicks off by talking about the "largely white" PNW. PNW is not well-defined and may or may not include Alaska depending on who you ask. So the next sentence discussing Alaska in the first clause can understandably be taken as also being about the PNW. That's another cue to a reader that what follows in the final clause--Hawaii--is equally linked to the same "largely white" claim from the author.
Breaking the sentence, or breaking the paragraph, or both would remove the confusion. Confusion is something an editor is supposed to be well-aware of and guard against. The NYT has recently and grossly displayed an editing bias in public, so I'm inclined to think the confusing structure is intentional.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And the OP misleading them was part of the reason. They discuss Hawaii's demographics later- in a part you omitted.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)which would be a nod to the fact that their non-white vote is a very different one from the continental USA. We both have made a much bigger deal over demographics than the article did. Like the OP intended all along.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)The article is dishonest. It is probably intentional.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Never happened- but look at how many posters bought it- hook line and sinker.
MFM008
(19,827 posts)almost everyone in Sanders group was white, in fact most people at the entire caucus were white and they had at least 20 districts or more in that high school... IT WAS PACKED, CNN was there even.
The only people of color I saw were in the HRC group. 4 HRC voters turned away because they got there to late, 2 non white older males and a black couple.
She lost our district by 2 votes. We had to eat it because the cut off was 11AM. Can you imagine the screaming fits if they had been Sanders voters?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)KauaiK
(544 posts)Hawaii is NOT predominately white or anything else. If anything, whites are in the minority.