Bill Clinton and BLM confrontation.

[brush]

The phrase "super predator" by Hillary was a reference to crack dealers in black neighborhoods, not black kids (keep reading and see who else "super predator" should be applied to) .

That word was taken out of a paragraph but the whole graph where Hillary characterized crack dealers who pushed that drug into the black community as super predators is not ever quoted, even the video was edited to make it seem she was talking about black kids instead of crack dealers.

The language is raw but so were those times. I know many don't want to hear it but many black folks, myself included, were demanding action to get the crack scourge out of the community. It was a huge problem as many teens and some adults were getting addicted, stealing to get the drug and getting arrested and having their futures ruined.

That's what Bill was trying to explain. He didn't do a great job of it though as he got over excited and got confrontational with the confrontational protestors.

Not good optics at all, but I still say that villainizing Hillary for that is unfair and a misunderstanding of the zeitgeist back then by people who were mostly not even born then and maybe don't know what a horrible problem it was (and btw, the Congressional Black Caucus, many other dems, and Bernie Sanders also voted for the crime bill).

And I'm a supporter of BLM. But wait, there's more.

The term "super predator" should also be applied to the CIA and their agents — the higher up, middle level and local drug pushers who flooded the black community with crack.

That's right, the CIA. The thing that people with not-so-hidden agendas emit in the telling of the story, or don't want to admit, is that the CIA involvement in the Contra arms-for-drugs operation originated in the Reagan administration and continued on into Daddy Bush's.

It was not initiated under Bill Clinton, but the devastating results on black communities were felt under the Clinton administration, thus the uproar at the time to do something about the drug scourge.

Many of you may remember that investigative reporter Gary Webb of the "San Jose Mercury News" broke the story of the Contra arms for drugs scandal back then but the CIA and government forces came down on him to discredit his reporting so hard that his editors and the paper backed off and totally marginalized him and destroyed his career. He was later found dead and it was declared a suicide but many believe he was assassinated as he wouldn't give up on the story that was extremely damaging to St. Ronnie and many in his administration. Please google Gary Webb.

There's a lot more to the falsehood that Hillary called black kids super predators than many want out there, including many from the Reagan admin who are still around.

[Bonobo]

1. And the "bring to heel" comment? That wasn't a dog whistle, excuse the pun?

Hillary was playing a political game of dice.

She was rolling to get a very specific type of support. She got it.

But now it is an albatross.

Deal with it. It's your albatross.

[brush]

3. Did you even read the post? Doesn't sound like it.

The "super predators" to be brought to heel were the crack dealers, supplied by the CIA, btw.

And I see nothing at all wrong in bringing crack dealers to heel.

[Bonobo]

5. I read the first half and just now read the second half.

Seemed like two oddly stitched together pieces of opinion.

1. Apology for Bill Clinton

2. Divergent (but not wrong) commentary on broader issues

[dchill]

26. So effing to the point.

The desired results are not so desirable now, eh, Hill?

[Hoyt]

2. Hope people read this.

[noiretextatique]

4. I agree, to some extent

But this does not explain mass incarceration or for-profit prisons.

[KingFlorez]

6. Not many know the actual history

If someone is to be blamed, it is Reagan.

[dchill]

27. Yes, and anyone who jumped onto his hellbound train.

And they know who they are.

[NWCorona]

7. I'm not trying to hear it

Bill Clinton used an extreme example to justify locking up non violent criminals for life.

Also crack dealers aren't superpredators. So are you saying that they are all beyond redemption and need to be brought to heel?

Like I said before Bill gets no pass! Period.

[brush]

9. Yeah, crack dealers and their suppliers, the CIA and all the high level and middle level . . .

suppliers of the drug to the local dealers are super fu_king predators and deserve to be brought to heel.

Do you even get it? The Reagan Administration and the fu_king CIA flooded the black community with drugs it got from the Contras in exchange for guns it ran to them so they could overthrow a popularly elected goverment of their country.

Hell yeah they should be punished and punished big time.

They prey on citizens of their own country — black people — to get money from drug sales which they used to buy guns to ship to the Contras to overthrow their democratically elected government.

That is wrong on so many levels it's more than just criminal.

[NWCorona]

13. You can't have it both ways tho

You can't blame Oliver North and then the black community they exploited.

BLM isn't saying that crime should go unpunished. It's that the punishment is unjust. On many levels. And the fact the the Clinton's used demonizing language to push this law through.

Maybe you think our brothers and sisters locked up for non violent crimes are beyond redemption but I don't.

[TM99]

8. Sorry you are simply misinformed and very wrong.

The myth of the superpredator was not just applied to 'crack dealers'. It was a pseudo-psychological theory being pushed in the 1990's about minority kids who were supposedly so violent and so mentally unstable that they were beyond predatory. Everything about it was racist. I know. I am bi-racial. I was an intern in the field fresh out of graduate school then. And I saw the effects this theory had after it was pushed by the Clintons, the Gores, the media, and the DC insiders. It was the bedrock of their criminal justice reforms, and it haunts us still.

It was racist then. It is racist now. Those laws did nothing to stop crime. Research has shown that conclusively. These Draconian laws have been on the books for decades now. They have destroyed our communities, our children, our parents, and our lives.

Whether the drugs were brought in by the CIA, Republicans like Nixon & Reagan, or by aliens, is a non-sequitor. The Clintons bought it hook line and sink. They pushed the war on drugs as hard as any Republican.

Bill revealed what was always known about him. And Hillary Clinton does not get a pass on this either. I don't care if you support them or want to vote for them, but I do care if you are using bogus information to try and excuse their words and actions. That I will stand up to with truth.

[brush]

10. Sorry, you're ignoring the big picture. The Reagan admin flooded the black community . . .

with drugs to get money to buy guns to ship to the Contras to overthrow a democratically elected government.

That is wrong on so many level but you ignore that part of the story. They were as much super predators as anybody.

[TM99]

12. This is still a non-sequitor.

The reasons for the drugs in our communities is not in debate here.

What is being discussed are the Clintons subsequent roles in the 1990's with regards to not only the continuance but the expansion of the war on drugs as well as the use of racist pseudo-psychological theories to push through crime bill agendas that have and continue to devastate our communities.

You are ignoring the realities in order to justify your support of the Clintons. That is intolerable. And yes, you are still very wrong in excusing those actions and the current ones.

[brush]

20. You're welcome to your opinion.

It's not shared by everyone who lived in the hood during the crack era. Most wanted something done to get the drugs and drug dealers out of the community.

As with much legislation there were unintended consequences but Bernie himself supported the crime bill.

[TM99]

21. Again you spouts lies.

I worked in the hood. This is not an opinion. It is fact based experience.

Using a bogus theory to promote a Draconian crime bill did nothing to get drugs or drug dealers out of any hood. Period. I linked to research in numerous threads on this topic. Again you are sadly misinformed.

And finally, no Sanders did not support the crime bill. It was an omnibus crime bill that he was forced to sign given the VAWA and the assault weapon ban were part of it. He vigorously spoke out and opposed the remainder which was all Clinton, all based on superpredator myths, and continued the drug war in spades. He was dead on right then. He is dead on right now. Clinton is a racist, and he revealed his true colors yet again (sad how so many forget the Clintons 2008 racist campaign against Obama!) this campaign.

[oasis]

14. Murder, robbery, drive by shootings, witness intimidation, home invasion

crack cocaine dealing in plain sight in the midst of the community. This criminal activity plagued many urban communities during the late eighties, early nineties. Community leaders were begging elected officials for a solution.

Bill Clinton was speaking out on behalf of the VICTIMS of criminality.

Brush, thank you for helping bring out the facts about what was going on.

[TM99]

22. Nothing in that bill decreased crime in the hood.

Nothing. Research proved it. What research also proved was that it indeed increased youth crime recidivism, increased incarceration numbers of minorities, and devastated communities further by breaking up families and homes due to Draconian three strike lies for non-violent drug crimes.

It is so fucking pathetic the way you Clinton supporters are trying to rewrite history just to rationalize the racist claptrap that Bill got caught yet again spewing.

[oasis]

24. I lived it. My friends, relatives, neighbors and co-workers along with me.

We know victims, survivors and their families. I've sat in neighborhood watch and other community meetings and heard the accounts from real people. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Your half baked theories and research can't bring one murdereed victim back to life. I speak for the victims and whoever doesn't like it can stick it where the sun don't shine.

[TM99]

25. No you don't.

I am not presenting fucking half baked theories. I was a fucking psychologist in these neighborhoods. I worked intimately with these kids. I know what the fuck was up, and it was not some pseudo-psychological bullshit racist theory about superpredators.

And not a thing in that bill changed the way the communities are, well except for making it worse.

I speak for the reality. I don't have to rewrite history or rationalize racist theories in order to support my candidate. Too many, including yourself, do however seem to need to do that.

That is what is truly tragic, because you are willing to let another Clinton into the White House after what we already know went horribly wrong policy wise the last time.

[oasis]

28. Tell me then, as a psycologist, what social remedy do you recommend

for murderers other than putting them in prison?

[TM99]

29. You don't really care.

And it is a hell of a lot more complex than some gotcha game on DU.

Like other traumatized populations, there is a great deal of PTSD. The entire BLM movement is predicated on the 'feeling' of imminent death. Even if the actual reality is low, there is a traumatic fear of it occurring.

But as I said, you really don't care. You just want to justify your candidate and her & her husbands shitty racist policies from then and now.

[oasis]

30. You may be a psychologist but you sure as hell haven't a clue

what I care about. You dodge that question because you don't have an answer. There was no easy answer for those voting for the crime bill either.

The VICTIMS wanted relief from gang terrorism. Which one of us has expressed concern for them?

[TM99]

36. Dude, you don't want a substantive

discussion of the psychology of crime, drug addiction, desperation, PTSD, depression, and the homicide/suicide axis. You couldn't even handle it. So why waste my time on someone thoroughly unqualified?

All of them are victims, that is what you don't get in your black & white limited thinking. The crime bill DID NOT FUCKING lower crime. The research was done, and it is conclusive.

Yes, there was an easy answer. Don't push racist pseudo-psychology theories. Don't enact crime legislation that treated kids as adults. Don't create Draconian three strikes you are out laws. Don't expand the bogus war on drugs.

Do you honestly think that the inner city gang and drug crime and violence of the 1990's is that different from today? If you do, then you are not aware of the reality.

[mhatrw]

34. You lived it! You know it! LONG INCARCERATION FOR NON-VIOLENT OFFENSES RULES!

YASFFOS

[oasis]

38. Reality check: Murder is NOT a non-violent crime.

It would be a good idea to read what someone actually wrote before you challenge their assertions.

[2banon]

11. Your Point on the CIA being the ultimate Source of the Crack Epidemic is a Fact

Gary Webb did an outstanding, courageous job of exposing this horrific history.

You make an interesting case on behalf of both of the Clinton's, though I'm not quite with you on having their backs. Because there's more to this story directly tied to Bill Clinton's Arkansas years.

I'm not interested in delving into the weeds (no pun intended) as there's no shortage of information in that regard but if memory serves, Gary Webb himself wrote about it, possibly may still be available on line somewhere.

[CentralCoaster]

15. You provide a fair and reasoned discussion, but that doesn't let Hillary or Bill off the hook.

Because they fed into the frenzy, they played politics with it and made political hay at the expense of others, of the victims of the frenzy which included many who were not of the dealer class.

They did little to curb the collateral damage done to the kids and their families of the super predatory lead dealers, and little to curb the harm done by the real predators: the CIA and the entire criminal justice and prison industrial complex.

So, while your explanation about the original intentions of the use of the term might be enlightening, it does not let the Clintons and others like them off the hook.

Not in my book.

[IamMab]

16. "Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." E. T. Bell

It's great that the emerging generation is orders of magnitude greater on some social issues than previous generations. Genuinely. But that doesn't give the emerging generation license to exclude context from their criticisms. Besides, that's a terrible precedent to set when every generation eventually ends up the one being judged by a newer emerging generation.


Full disclosure: I only found this full quote because I was looking for the Futurama version.

[BillZBubb]

17. You Hillarybots can attempt to rationalize anything. It is almost laughable.

Super predators, at the time Hillary used it, was a right wing meme--and it meant black kids. It was a dog whistle. As was the phrase "bring them to heel".

You can try to spin it however you want and deflect the blame to the CIA or who ever. But the Clintons use race to their advantage as the situation requires. Bill just doubled down for this go around.

[brush]

18. IMO super predators referred to predatory drug dealers.

I experience it. The fact that crack dealers were black does not make them sympathetic figures in my book. Nor does it make the ones who supplied them, the CIA — beginning in the Reagan administration.

I mean what else would you call a government that flooded its own citizens' neighborhoods with drugs to make money to buy arms to ship Contras trying to overthrow a democratically elected government? I call them super predators too.

[BillZBubb]

37. Well it is convenient that your opinion coincides with Hillary's excuse.

That doesn't change the fact that the usage at the time Hillary made it was totally right wing and racist.

[brush]

39. Read some of the rest of the posts. Many in the black community wanted the drug dealers . . .

Last edited Sat Apr 9, 2016, 12:12 PM - Edit history (1)

out., as did the Congressional Black Caucus, other Congresspersons, community ministers, and Bernie Sanders himself.

You obviously didn't experience those times, the sheer arrogance of the crack dealers openly pushing their poison on street corners in clear view. You apparently know nothing about the devastating effect of the related crimes that hit because of the addiction these pusher wrougnt — the stealing to get the drugs, the shootings and yes, murders from turf battles on the corners, the innocent bystanders that were struck by stray bullets, the ruin of lives and families of the addicted.

[morningfog]

19. She said kids are super predators. Kids.

[Cheese Sandwich]

23. "The language is raw but so were those times."

Yeah it was tough times.

So give us jobs and money and education. Give us health care and decent housing.

Why is the response always to call us criminals and lock us up?


Clinton economics: Destroy jobs with bad trade deals, cut welfare and government services, and throw the people in jail. Oh and help Walmart become the #1 employer in America by letting them import slave made goods from China.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

31. nice post

create a monster and then profit from the hunt

[PowerToThePeople]

32. Clinton's drug war was a direct followup of Reagan's crimes against AA communities.

The people Clinton was criminalizing were victims of our government's international agenda. He should have been helping them, not criminalizing them. The real criminals still walk free.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511677767

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/10/gary-webb-dark-alliance_n_5961748.html

Key Figures In CIA-Crack Cocaine Scandal Begin To Come Forward

...

More than 18 years have passed since Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Gary Webb stunned the world with his “Dark Alliance” newspaper series investigating the connections between the CIA, a crack cocaine explosion in the predominantly African-American neighborhoods of South Los Angeles, and the Nicaraguan Contra fighters — scandalous implications that outraged LA’s black community, severely damaged the intelligence agency’s reputation and launched a number of federal investigations.

It did not end well for Webb, however. Major media, led by The New York Times, Washington Post and Los Angeles Times, worked to discredit his story. Under intense pressure, Webb’s top editor abandoned him. Webb was drummed out of journalism. One LA Times reporter recently apologized for his leading role in the assault on Webb, but it came too late. Webb died in 2004 from an apparent suicide. Obituaries referred to his investigation as “discredited.”

...

After The Associated Press reported on these connections in 1985, for example, more than a decade before Webb, then-Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) launched a congressional investigation. In 1989, Kerry released a detailed report claiming that not only was there “considerable evidence” linking the Contra effort to trafficking of drugs and weapons, but that the U.S. government knew about it.

...

Webb says. “It was a situation where, ‘We need money for a covert operation, the quickest way to raise it is sell cocaine, you guys go sell it somewhere, we don’t want to know anything about it.’”

(much more good stuff @ link)

...

[synergie]

35. They were not BLM .

http://mic.com/articles/140325/bill-clinton-thought-he-was-talking-to-black-lives-matter-activists-in-philly-he-wasn-t#.YwJukNH6O