There is NOTHING that makes opposition to a minimum wage increase for Haitians acceptable.

[Ken Burch]

Haitians are paid little enough, overall, that the vast majority of them can effectively be considered slaves.

And Haiti is an incredibly tiny country...total population 10.57(about the same population as the NYC and its immediate suburbs) so there is no way an increase in the minimum wage there could have any significant negative effect on the US economy.

Haiti has, in effect, continuously punished by the French and the Americans for being the first place in the world where a slave revolt defeated white European oppressors. Opposition to a minimum wage increase, something that is the very, very LEAST the Haitian people have a right to expect, after 216 years of Euro-American imposed immiseration.

There is no "greater good" that could ever be served by opposing slightly-closer-to-decent wages for the Haitian people

[hobbit709]

1. TPTB are NEVER concerned with the "greater good"

[Hoyt]

2. Who is opposing this? I suspect Sanders' and his supporters would oppose an American

company building plants there to provide jobs and investment that will lead to a better life (up to a point, wouldn't want to see Haiti over industrialized for sure).

[think]

4. Hillary's State Dept intervened for corps to have Haiti's govt rescind a raise to $.61 /hour in '09

Fact Check Politics
Haitian Wages

~dnip~

In June 2009, the Haitian Parliament unanimously passed a law requiring that the minimum wage be raised to $0.61 an hour, or $5 a day. (The average cost of living is estimated to be the equivalent of about $23 a day.) This pay raise was staunchly opposed by foreign manufacturers who had set up shop in the country, and the United States Department of State and the U.S. Agency for International Development backed those manufacturers. After Haiti's government mandated the raise, the United States aggressively (and successfully) pushed Haiti's president to lower the minimum wage for garment workers to what factory owners were willing to pay: the equivalent of about $0.31 an hour (or $2.50 per eight-hour day).

~Snip~

So it's true that the State Department (then led by Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State) strongly opposed a minimum wage increase in Haiti in 2009. However, the State Department's efforts did not occur in a political or economic vacuum, and Clinton wasn't the sole architect of efforts to quash a minimum wage hike (as the meme suggests). It was a concerted effort on the part of Haitian elites, factory owners, free trade proponents, U.S. politicians, economists, and American companies that kept the minimum wage so low, and to lay the blame squarely at the feet of any sitting Secretary of State would be an incomplete assessment, and thus inaccurate.

Read more:
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-suppressed-haitis-minimum-wage/

[Hoyt]

6. Apparently, you did not read the entire Snope piece, here's the conclusion:

"So it's true that the State Department (then led by Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State) strongly opposed a minimum wage increase in Haiti in 2009. However, the State Department's efforts did not occur in a political or economic vacuum, and Clinton wasn't the sole architect of efforts to quash a minimum wage hike (as the meme suggests). It was a concerted effort on the part of Haitian elites, factory owners, free trade proponents, U.S. politicians, economists, and American companies that kept the minimum wage so low, and to lay the blame squarely at the feet of any sitting Secretary of State would be an incomplete assessment, and thus inaccurate."


There is no doubt Haiti is a real disaster. Unfortunately, it appears the only way out is slow progress through investment -- short of billion of dollars being pumped into the economy by governments. Otherwise the country might revert to where is was before, or worse, which is what the State Department feared, rightly or wrongly.

[beedle]

9. And you point is?

No one claimed she did it all by herself. Of course she had help and/or pressure from others.

Does it make any difference to you that she doesn't oppress the poor all by herself?

[noiretextatique]

10. Argreed...she was just a part of the problem

Not the sole player.

[Ken Burch]

12. Slow progress doesn't require slave wages.

And yes, others were involved, but HRC didn't have to endorse what they were doing. It's not as though Haiti can only grow prosperous if the majority get next to nothing.

It wage slavery is wrong here, its equally wrong everywhere else.

And Woody Guthrie damn sure wouldn't stand for it.

[Hoyt]

13. So the companies leave and the wages fall below what they were before, not to

mention impact on public service. What would that accomplish?

[Ken Burch]

15. slave wages were not essential to keeping the companies there.

Jobs that don't pay are not an improvement on not having jobs.

She could at least have said it was wrong to pay so little. What did she have to lose?

[Hoyt]

16. When it double or triples income in the short-run with advances in future, it darn sure is. Besides

Last edited Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:08 PM - Edit history (1)

our so-called "international" unions can move in to make things better when workers' incomes improve to pay enough in dues.

[Ken Burch]

18. Why do you put the word "international" scare quotes as if it's a joke?

BTW, you may not be aware of this, but they KILL union organizers in Haiti(just as they do in other "free trade" countries like Mexico).

It's bullshit for you to imply that the U.S. labor movement doesn't care about this. You have no reason to assume they don't

[Scuba]

23. So now you're defending slave wages. Why am I not surprised?

[Hoyt]

24. Salve wages to you and me, but a better life to them. Some of the big companies pay much better

wages than the average in poor countries. I do agree that wages should increase in poor countries as the economy improves.

[noiretextatique]

5. Clinton opposed it...that's who.

It is surprining that people don't know this.

[Hoyt]

7. You, too, are missing the context of a sad situation.

[noiretextatique]

8. What context?

She opposed it

[Ken Burch]

11. There is no context that can possibly make slave wages for Haitians defensible.

What possible harm could it have done to let them earn enough to feed, clothe, and house themselves?

It's not as though the Haitian economy can only function if no one but the extremely wealthy ultraminority has any right to "the tree of life".

[Hoyt]

14. Yep, everyone could leave and let wages fall below where they were

before, as well as public services. That's the context, political and economic realities. Parliament could have stood firm and had $5 a day prevail for the few remaining jobs. Unquestionably, it's an ugly situation, but much better than it was before. Seems to me those "international" unions would move in to help, but I guess the membership dues hey could collect aren't worth it.

[Ken Burch]

19. They KILL union organizers in Haiti.

You are way out of line here in implying that the labor movement doesn't care about Haitian workers. Or to put the term "international" in quotes as if it goes without saying that the unions only try to organize American workers.

There simply isn't any way for the unions you are dissing to do anything here-especially if the U.S. isn't going to have their back against company thugs in Haiti.

[Hoyt]

20. The ”International" unions care about them only to the extent they don't

compete with American jobs. I don't understand why so many unions have "international" in their official names.

[Ken Burch]

21. Trade deals don't help workers in poor countries. NAFTA proved that.

NAFTA was the one reason these disgraces occurred:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquiladora

You are essentially arguing that unions should support globalization on corporate terms if they want to help workers on other countries. What you don't seem to have noticed is that, in every "globalized" developing country, union organizing is nearly impossible and the governments in those countries use brute force to stop unions from educating workers and helping them to organize their workplaces.

Al Gores's "side agreements" on NAFTA ended up being useless and irrelevant.

[Hoyt]

22. Tel that to the farmers who were making less than a $1 a DAY, but are making $8 an hour in

auto plants. You can't judge progress in other countries based upon our standards. Heck, Americans stole their land, cut them out of a lot of wealth, treat those who come here for a better life like scabs, and worse.

[polly7]

3. What has been done to the Haitian people is absolutely heartbreaking. nt.

[Hoyt]

17. Before and after photos. Tell me things are better now than right after 2010 earthquake.

Not great by our standards, but better off than then. And they'll get better.


http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/gallery/2013/feb/19/haiti-2010-earthquake-in-pictures


Here are some more: