2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumRelax, should HRC become the nominee
On Election Day even the most uninspired democrats will dutifully drag their sad zombie asses into the booth and cast their perfunctory, lesser of two evils, vote for Dynasty Clinton. Proof once more that the two party cattle chute, we call democracy, works perfectly.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)to all the concern threads about not voting for the nominee.
kath
(10,565 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)what I was just thinking. These things are getting tiresome. That's not meant to slam the posters, who seem to be well-meaning in the main, but that horse is Alpo by now.
I assume (for the last time) that many of us here will be clenching our jaws come election day as we fill bubbles/poke holes/pull levers (does anyone do that last one anymore?).
Those petulant types who choose to sit things out will know who's responsible if the shit hits the fan.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)demanding loyalty oaths deserve their own this morning?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)granted no better either.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)I knew Mondale and Duke were going to lose but I dragged my ass to the polls any way because it was the right thing to do...
zappaman
(20,606 posts)But pulled the lever.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)I was in.
Prism
(5,815 posts)If they don't show up, poof.
My major concern about a Clinton nomination is that people honestly expect the younger generation to vote for the same old shit. Obama had charisma and a cultural cachet. He did a phenomenal job connecting and motivating younger voters. He convinced many different groups that he would change the system.
Clinton is largely a known quantity and the ultimate Establishment figure. Furthermore, she is not known for being an amazing campaigner. I just don't envision her plastic, forced quality translating or connecting nearly as well. Think of it like that older uncle who's all, "Hey dudes, I like cool things too!" and you just cringe in response because it's so uncomfortably dated and out of joint.
At this point, I expect a Clinton nomination and am praying the Republicans nominate someone truly unelectable.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Prism
(5,815 posts)But enthusiasm and turn out come election day is a different kettle of fish. We won't be able to really gauge that accurately until we draw closer to the general election. A poll showing 100% support for a candidate doesn't matter if only three of those voters show up.
Who knows, though. Maybe the Republicans will nominate someone so terrible that younger voters will be climbing over one another to get inside the booths.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)my daughters are part of that generation and tell me that the older generations expect them to follow the same rules and behave the same way they did and do (status quo). Millenials are living in a different world of extremely high unemployment; they have enormous debt from college and can't find a job. Owning a home, getting married and having kids (aka the The American Dream) isn't even in their thoughts. Case in point - Hillary's profit sharing idea - not relevant to them.
They don't watch TV news or read the NYT or WaPo; they are on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Tumblr.
These kids think that the only way they'll have any kind of future is if our society changes. Bernie Sanders is resonating with them...I think maybe because he's such a straight shooter and they're sick of the bullshit.
Now as you've pointed out, what matters is if they actually show up and vote. I think as a collective they're reaching critical mass and know they need to take their futures into their own hands, so I'm optimistic that they will.
Prism
(5,815 posts)I'm slightly too old to be a Millennial (mid-30s), but my partner is one and most of my friends as well (mid to late 20s). Their lives are a mess. Massive student debt from degrees that are not helping as they approach their 30s with jobs at Target or Uniqlo. I have friends living 4-5 people in one and two bedroom apartments (and that's in the cheaper parts of the Bay Area). Even the ones who "succeeded" are struggling. One friend is working 60-80 hours a week at a successful firm and still living at home.
Bernie's name comes up a lot with my friends who follow politics. With those who don't, they still don't know who he is. I've heard a lot of, "Oh God, not Hillary," but anecdotes aren't data as they say.
I hope he or O'Malley connect. Personally, I'd be fine with either of them at this point in time. I just so very much want to see the next generation stand up and shout, "You people are fucking wrecking us, and we're not going to sit for this!" Hope hope.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I thought my generation (X) was aimless, but these kids really need something to look forward to, and need to realize they have to be the ones to do it by using the very system that keeps them down to overcome it.
I like O'Malley too and would be happy with him as well. Unfortunately the ugly truth is that unless an obscene amount of cash is amassed and the media is manipulated with it, the person who may be the best president doesn't stand a chance.
It has to change.
London Lover Man
(371 posts)And I am very enamored to Bernie and many of my friends are.
artislife
(9,497 posts)But a lot of the Occupiers didn't just fall away. They got involved. How else do you get a Socialist elected? They are referendum type voters but they are very political. Because it matters to them. They are under no illusion that things will magically be better for them than their parents. The fact that H and Bill have been a part of the establishment since they were kids isn't exactly working in their favor.in
Will they vote the top of the ticket? They have to feel it matters, there are too many things that are at critical mass and if they don't feel like it matters. They won't vote.
I think Bernie at the top of the ticket, brings in more voters. YMMV
When they see Bernie, he is talking to them. They see how he hasn't changed his fights. How he worked with congress and against.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)And it will be interesting to see if the Clinton camp ignores it (to their peril) or cooks up some likely-to-fail PR ruse.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Absolutely destroyed her.
Demographically, on Super Tuesday in 2008, Clinton didn't beat Obama until you started looking at people aged 45+.
There's a really interesting Pew write up of Super Tuesday's results and the youth vote here:
http://www.pewresearch.org/2008/02/11/young-voters-in-the-2008-presidential-primaries/
Furthermore, the youth turnout in primaries had doubled in 2008 over 2000 (17% vs 9%). Ultimately, for the entire primary, Obama received 60% of the youth vote. He simply had skills that Clinton lacks, and I do wonder how this will affect the general.
There's a resting assumption that with no Obama in the race, Clinton will automatically draw everyone he won. But that is simply because those commentators are dismissing the enthusiasm factor which, as we know, can absolutely devastate a party's national chances.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)into the valley of steel..."
zappaman
(20,606 posts)kath
(10,565 posts), ridiculous Electoral College can write in Bernie, or Mickey Mouse, or just leave the Presidential spot blank.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)That's why we need to get a nominee we can care about voting for.
kath
(10,565 posts)No way will I add to HRC's pop vote total if she is the nominee.
In my particular Red State Hell, no write-ins allowed, so had to just leave the spot blank last time.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)I'll dutifully vote for all the Dems down ballot (though truth be told, it is so red here that only 1/3 to 1/2 of the positions even have Dems running!), but I won't cast a meaningless vote for HRC since it won't matter here anyway
BKH70041
(961 posts)If I were a Sanders supporter and believed the things the supporters here claim they do about Clinton, then I wouldn't vote for her in the GE. At some point you've got to let the other foot hit the floor and say "No more!"
But they get sucked in by "lesser of two evils," "USSC," etc... I just couldn't do it. I have too much backbone that staying just wouldn't be an option.
The Sanders supporters nationwide, should he not be the nominee, need to go form their own party. They're constantly trying to change the Democratic Party into the image they want it to be, and that's just not going to happen. If it ever did happen, the Party would collapse in on itself and fade into the dust-bin of history for being worthless.
They'll be much happier if they just move on.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)from a Hillary supporter I wonder if many others agree...
kath
(10,565 posts)One thing though - many, if not most of us are not "constantly trying to change the Democratic Party into the image they want it to be" but would be thrilled to at least have the Party be like it USED to be, before it was infiltrated by the DLCer Conservadems. Those people should go back to their Republican party.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)look for generations of Republicans in the WH, since the left will be split for a loooong time. We've seen that the centrists refuse to even consider leftist candidates, and continually demand that the lefties give up on principle and vote for the centrist candidates or else be branded as 'helping Republicans get elected'. The centrists won't simply 'fade away', they'll continue to fight to keep socially liberal plutocrat supporters in power.
BKH70041
(961 posts)"I'm not going to vote for two sides of the same coin and actually vote for what I believe in." And that's the way many of you feel. I don't agree with you on that, but that's not the point.
The point is take a stand and quit being suckered into "Oh no, if we do this then all is lost for a loooong time" or you're "'helping Republicans get elected."
Besides, I'm not so sure that would be the case.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)We are trying to return the Democratic Party to what it was before it triangulated itself into a facsimile of 1980's Republicans.
There is no need for us to form our own party when we are the roots of the Democratic Party. If on the other hand all the disaffected Republicans that found that party becoming even too extreme for their taste and joined the Democrats and have since been trying to pull the party ever more rightward wish to move on, well I'll help them pack.
BKH70041
(961 posts)Those of us who run the party are the same as we've been since way back when. And I say that as the largest individual money donor to the party on this site. It will continue as it currently is.
The question then becomes do you want to remain and support what you consider to be a "right-ward drifting corporate party" (it's not), or do you want to move on. Because the one thing that won't happen is what you wish would happen, that is, making the party into something that it never was.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Sorry, while the Democratic Party has remained liberal on social issues, there can be no question it has moved rightward economically. We have a Democratic President who openly admits his economic policies are mainstream 1980s Republican, that in many ways Richard Nixon was more liberal than he is, and speaks positively about Ronald Reagan. We have a faction of the party, or who at least claim to be Democrats, that wants to reduce and privatize social security benefits, reduce corporate taxes, and pass the TPP. All Republican positions.
You may feel that you personally have not changed; one has to be blind not to see that the party has lurched rightward.
Say hi to Brooklyn at the salon.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)corporatists whose real loyalty is to money and power, not the party, but have found their goals can be advanced effectively from inside the opposition's tent. Joe Lieberman comes to mind. Democratic voters should have sent his ass packing a lot sooner.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)The Bernie supporters I've come into contact with in the real world seem more realistic and far less obnoxious than some of the more strident supporters here.
Faint praise, and anecdotal, but the difference has struck me.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)There's many that have had more than their fill of that. They weirdly believe they don't owe their vote to any political party or person.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Believe me I understand that sentiment.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)You must at least try to feign some enthusiasm, not just drag your ass to vote,
you must also be "happy" about it, volunteer, canvass doors, register new voters,
and give LOTS of your money to the "inevitable" Democrat.
If you don't do this, you are 'helping elect' Jeb Bush.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)From what I see on DU.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Projection, it's what's for dinner. Unlike you, other Sanders supporters are not ready to give up. That is the tone you have so indignantly displayed in your op. They have more confidence. Amazingly shallow op.
On election day, most Sanders supporters plan on voting for Sanders. They expect victory in the primaries. He is better than your negativity.
Very unique. Yesterday you were aggressive and angry to the point you couldn't connect thoughts. Today it is thoughts of abject failure, giving up, and being a victim of the game.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251447166
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The tone, and overwhelming majority of what you wrote, is clear. You should at least agree that what you have written is extremely shallow.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)or did you miss that too? What do you believe and hope most democrats do in the general if Hillary is the nominee?
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)it and follow along.
I will vote for the candidate who earns my vote in the primary and GE.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)But of course it has no effect on your superior mind...
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And it's blackmail to blame the victims should she fail to be inspiring enough of a candidate to drag enough 'sad zombie asses' into the voting booths.
If she loses, it's because she was the wrong candidate for the general, and the blame lies with her and the people who saddled the party with her as the nominee.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)It will be teh Bernie supporters fault complete with links to the few folks that have said they will not vote for her.
Just as it was all Nader's fault that Gore lost Florida.
Watch and wait. If Hillary wins the primary I hope to God she wins the general. I think there is a very large chance she will not and that scares the bejeezus out of me.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)If she is nominee i am staying home on election day here In Missouri.First time i will not vote since i turned 18 back in 1992.
No more corporate dems for me.I am not very happy with Missouri dems after the michael brown case in ferguson eather.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)Yay!