I support Black Lives Matter...but not these tactics.

[Ken Burch]

Last edited Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:10 AM - Edit history (2)

Bernie has run an open-door campaign. He has met with them before. He'll gladly do so again. Why can't they try dialog and at least consider giving the guy the benefit of the doubt as at least making a good-faith effort to be on their side?

This sounds to me a lot like the 1965-66 era, when much(but not all) of the black freedom movement suddenly made white supporters unwelcome. I can see telling whites to accept black leadership, and to go home and organize white communities for change...but what good did it do to basically tell hundreds of thousands of white allies that they were no longer considered allies?

[bigtree]

1. yeah, that 'black freedom' movement in the '60's was a bust

...oh, wait.

[Ken Burch]

2. Wasn't saying or thinking that and you know it.

Just pointing out that there's no way the anti-racist cause is ever best served by rejecting white leftists as allies. Do you really disagree with that assertion?

[bigtree]

3. I'm still stuck on your analogy

...and the assertion by you that 'much(but not all) of the black freedom movement made white supporters unwelcome.'

That's what you got from the 'black freedom movement,' that blacks rejected whites as allies? That's what you glean from this confrontation, that blm is 'rejecting white leftists as allies?'

No, I don't agree with that at all. They are rejecting efforts which they view as insufficient to the needs and concerns of the subject of their movement. They appear to be challenging them to do better and have said they're targeting Sanders because they feel there's a chance he'll be more responsive to their concerns than others.

[Ken Burch]

4. Couldn't they frame it as "he's pretty good, but he could be better"?

Do they have to keep acting as if he hasn't proved he cares about institutional racism? That he has somehow massively betrayed them?

Do they have to accuse him(as the blm Seattle Facebook page does) of actually abetting white supremacy?

And as to the freedom movement, I was talking about the 1965-66 era, when they kicked a lot of white activists out...not the entire history of the movement (which was an enormously heroic group of people). It was a time when a lot of uncompromised, passionately committed white leftist were suddenly, for no reason, treated as the enemy. Why wasn't it enough to insist on black leadership of the movement?

When does it ever make sense, in any movement for change, to reject people who want to help the cause?

[daybranch]

5. Bernie cannot help that much if he is not the candidate.

Targeting Sanders without great shows of support and calling people white supremacist liberals was stupid. Black Lives Matter does not appear to have responsible leadership which refuses to let their organization be used against their own goals. Systemic racism has been a feature of our system implemented by the oligarchy since before the revolution to keep poor of both the white and the black race from sharing the commonality of outrage necessary to unite against the oligarchy. The oligarchy recognizes that if they can get poor white people or poor black people to say this is not my problem then the outrage will not be shared and the unification stopped. BLM needs to recognize who their enemy is, rather than shout most loudly at their friends. This fits the purpose of the oligarchy and in this case hurts the candidate most willing to fight their common enemy, the oligarchy' This leads one to question whether BLM is a afraid to endorse Bernie and support him if he bows to their desires. I think not, they must curry favor for any crumbs Hillary or the rest of the establishment will throw. So if they really think Bernie is more likely to be responsive, they should step up and endorse him now, otherwise they may be detrimental to their stated cause.
To make these demonstrations which to much of the voting public to imply African Americans are against Bernie because he does not support an end to police violence against people of color is hurting the perception of Bernie with a public who main stream media want to keep ignorant of Bernie and his ideals.
To say that Bernie will be more responsive is probably right but unless they change their tactics, they are supporting Hillary and the images main stream media and the oligarchy want to portray.

[Paka]

6. Like Bernie, I gave everything I had to support civil rights in the '60's.

I risked losing my job, I risked jail, I risked being beat up, you name it. I have supported civil rights all my adult life and I was a stanch supporter of the BLM movement from the start. They have now, with their insane tactics, turned me off so completely I find it hard to continue the respect I had for them. I still support the issues and the ideas, I just can't support those who act in this disruptive abusive manner.