Comparisons between Sanders' and Clinton's interactions with BLM activists are dishonest

[markpkessinger]

(Note: Originally posted in GD, where it got locked, with a note suggesting I post it here instead.)

Those who are quick to compare Mrs. Clinton's interaction with BLM activists to that of Bernie Sanders should remember this: BLM extended to Hillary Clinton the courtesy of confronting her in a pre-arranged meeting that had been set up specifically for this purpose. BLM confronted Bernie Sanders at an event that wasn't even a Sanders campaign event, but a Social Security rally at which he had been invited to speak. Senator Sanders likely felt -- and would have been right to feel -- that a non-campaign appearance was neither the time nor the place to entertain the discussion. Any comparison of the two encounters is dishonest at best.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. It's harder to confront Hillary

She has secret service protection and much tighter security.

Bernie is easier to get to....and boy did they get to him.

#BlackLivesMatter would have gone after Hillary in the same way if they could have.

[whatchamacallit]

4. Once in her presence, their demeanor said it all

Apparently the BLM that confronted (lol) Clinton was from another dimension.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Not all black people are the same

The same people who confronted Bernie were not the same ones who confronted Hillary. Believe it or not, there's more than one black person in the BLM movement and they will confront candidates in different ways.

You're just bitter because of how Bernie was confronted.

Get over it.

[whatchamacallit]

8. Well that explains it

There's no comparison - Sanders gets cut off and shut down, and Clinton get lobbed opportunities to posture it out of the park.

And no, I won't get over it. You love to pull out the ever-handy 'that's how protests are' bull, but I know Clinton supporters would crap their collective pants if she was challenged and disrespected the way Bernie has been.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Bernie was disrespected?

The horror.

Maybe he should only be treated with kid gloves?

Seriously, he's running for President.

You need thick skin if you want to become President and you will definitely be disrespected along the way.

[azurnoir]

12. and Hillary? if she is 'disrespected' it will not be face to face in what could be called a public

ambush attack on him, it will be a carefully arranged and vetted private meeting

[whatchamacallit]

13. Kid gloves like Queen Hillary got

Y'all have been claiming she's just as big a target as Bernie is, but I don't buy it. And differences in manners between people doesn't explain it.

[99th_Monkey]

14. I think the point is 'where is the parity?"

It's not that Bernie can't take it, because he has, pretty gracefully done that,
and responded with concrete actions to address BLM concerns.

the question is where's the parity in this ...

one candidate gets screamed in the face "white supremacist racist!!!!" and
shoved away from his own mic

v.

another candidate gets an advance phone call warning her they are coming,
and then get a private meeting where they respectfully ask their questions,
giving Hillary a chance to posture for the video.

do you call this fair parity? I don't think so.

[Juicy_Bellows]

16. And given all that, delivered a condescending, snarky response. Nt.

[whatchamacallit]

17. Interesting her turgid performance hasn't created a firestorm on Twitter

Some major double standards being applied.

[Juicy_Bellows]

18. Indeed, hypocrisy fries my ham. Nt.

[JackInGreen]

25. It fries my eggs

We could do breakfast.

[Juicy_Bellows]

26. Sounds good.

Mimosas on me. Cheers!

[tblue37]

62. Oops--Self-removed. Sorry. I posted this reply to the wrong thread! nt

[Juicy_Bellows]

63. Well said. I watched your link. She hasn't changed at all. Thanks for posting it! Nt.

[tblue37]

64. I see that you found it where I finally posted it it on the right thread and

replied to it there.

[passiveporcupine]

33. It didn't sound bitter to me.

But you may be sounding a little defensive here.

Why can't you admit that there is no comparison in the two events? And yet Bernie is being held to a much higher standard than Hillary. He handled it well. She probably would have too. But we will never know, will we?

[Doctor_J]

15. so don't compare them

And no, they wouldn't have gone after the same way, since Big Media and the PUMAS have been pushing the "Bernie's a racist" lie for more than a month now.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. I wouldn't say dishonest, but I do think circumstances matter.

And that they're obviously not completely equivalent.

From the video and texts released since then by the BLM activists present at the Clinton event, they weren't terribly impressed with her responses either, since they felt she had a personal hand in creating the conditions that have destroyed so many black lives over the last few decades.

[daybranch]

50. Just as long as they point out that personal hand as loudly as they yelled at Bernie

Of course Hillary is now given the opportunity to show a little remorse.

[GitRDun]

3. Dishonest?

I can see apples vs. oranges, but as long as context is there it's not dishonest IMO.

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. Well ... I'm sure that was an honest poor choice of words ...

[markpkessinger]

7. I call comparisons of apples and oranges dishonest . . .

. . . maybe you see it differently.

[GitRDun]

9. Lol not if you are honest about it.

You can compare two interactions, show how they are different (apples vs. oranges), but compare specific aspects that may be comparable.

I guess I don't see the world so black and white.

[sibelian]

20. By which measure you place yourself as the arbiter of which aspects are comparable.

Easily done.

[GitRDun]

22. Not true

The reader judges whether or not the aspects that you say are comparable, actually are.

Dishonesty would come from not transparently noting what's different.

[sibelian]

23. Fair response!

My misunderstanding...



Thank you, I LIKE plain English.

[Cha]

61. Well Done, GitRDun

[azurnoir]

11. moreover Senator Sanders never had a chance to address #BLM in Seattle

the events leader shut down the rally when the BLM activists called crowd racists and IMO it was a wise move

[SunSeeker]

28. Bull. He was on stage with them. He could have invited them to meet with him. He has a mouth. nt

[azurnoir]

29. ummm ya lets watch the video ummkay

[SunSeeker]

40. As the video shows, Bernie makes no effort to invite them to meet with him.

He makes no effort to talk to them at all. He just steps away, crosses his arms and stands there looking sour. Just because the event organizers shut down the event did not prevent him --or his aides--from approaching the BLM protesters and arranging a meeting.

When the BLM protestors asked him to come to the podium to apologize for not putting out a criminal justice package, "like Martin O'Malley did," after he and O'Malley were confronted about it at Netroots, he waived them off and eventually walked off the stage.

Your sarcastic attempt to belittle people who point out these inconvenient facts with "ummmm ya" and "lets watch the video ummmkay" does nothing to rebut those facts. Certainly that 25 minute video does not rebut them. It only confirms those facts.

[azurnoir]

47. the 2 women that took over the mic were not there for a dialogue

and under those circumstances I do not blame him, for leaving

[jfern]

30. They refused to shake his hand

If he had tried to speak, you'd be attacking him for arguing with them.

[SunSeeker]

31. You don't need to shake hands to speak. nt

[jfern]

34. If you watched the video

You'd realize that Sanders did the right thing.

[SunSeeker]

41. I did watch the video, several times. It confirms what I'm saying. nt

[jfern]

49. They wanted nothing but trouble

And the event was shut down. I know Bernie haters will criticize him no matter what, but he did the right thing.

[SunSeeker]

55. BLM wants to end institutional racist violence. Your insults of their goals is offensive.nt

[jfern]

56. Sanders meets with BLM people interested in

working constructively. But the Seattle group named themselves "Outside Agitators 206" and behaved just as you'd think a group with that name would.

[SunSeeker]

59. Bernie has met with no "BLM people."

Regardless of whether you deem with constructive or not, Bernie has not met with any BLM activists.

[jfern]

60. He hasn't met his National Press Secretary?

You're quite a comedian.

[SunSeeker]

65. Meeting with his own press secretary is not meeting with BLM.

[slipslidingaway]

38. This was not a Sanders event, he rightfully and respectfully deferred to the organizers. n/t

[SunSeeker]

42. The event organizers did not prevent him from speaking with the protesters. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

44. They showed no indication they wanted to hear from him. Period.

[SunSeeker]

46. He made no effort. Period.

[slipslidingaway]

51. He was respectful as invited speaker, not sure what you wanted him to do? He tried to reach out ...

but they continued to shout at him while moving closer, should he have shoved them out of the way?

What would Clinton have done if people jumped on the stage and began to move closer?

What would Clinton do?

[SunSeeker]

53. Simple--ASK them to meet with him. He did not try. nt

[slipslidingaway]

57. They did not tweet hours in advance that they planned to 'disrupt' him as they did with Clinton ...

and they did not jump on stage where he was an invited to speak about Social Security and Medicare.

This was not his event! He offered a hand, they refused and continued to shout and push towards him. He respectfully handed the situation over to the event organizers.

This was not his event!!!

I think Larry Wilmore had it right when he said 'black lives matter, but black manners matter do as well.'

Go back and listen to some speeches of his from 20 + years ago, he identified the problem back then and offered solutions.

Unfortunately too many people were so intent on voting for a "party" instead of listening and voting for ideas and solutions that our citizenship has become so immersed in the idea 'our team' right or wrong. That is a recipe for disaster!

Corporate media and money have played a large role to continue the divide, we need to break the cycle when the wealthy can buy elections and we stand up for the majority of people.

I sound like some sort of socialist

I am not opposed to giving a hand to those less fortunate, we are all in this world together!

[jwirr]

43. I suggest you watch the NN video again. He had a short Q&A session

just at the end of it and tried to answer their questions. He had another speech to attend and had to catch a plane but a member of his staff met with the protesters.

And most important from that time on Bernie included the BLM message in every speech after that including the one he was going to that evening.

He had been speaking out in favor of BLM for a week when he went to a forum on Social Security where he had been invited to speak on that issue of expanding Social Security.

What many did not know was that right after the NN protest Bernie contacted Symone Sanders, a criminal justice expert and a BLM supporter, and asked for help in responding to the BLM protesters requests. With her help they worked on a plan to combat police brutality. On the day that the Seattle BLM protesters confronted him he introduced Ms Sanders at his own event that evening after the Social Security event and later revealed the plan they had come up with.

He is now working on setting up a meeting for a meeting with one of BLM's prominent leaders. He also has a bill in congress for a voter's holiday to combat voter suppression. And I understand he is working on another bill regarding police violence.

He has been listening and he has been answering.

[SunSeeker]

45. "He is now working on setting up a meeting for a meeting with one of BLM's prominent leaders."

I thought BLM had no "leaders," like Occupy. That could be why he has had no meetings...

[jwirr]

48. The man has been associated with BLM since Ferguson MO - cannot

remember his last name but his first is Deray. Many of us first heard about him on live stream watching the protests.

As to no meetings - Symone must have had a meeting or two with him and on the night after NN his staff met with them because he had to catch a plane to Reno for another speech.

But of course nothing will ever be enough. But Hillary is really doing great.

[SunSeeker]

54. Bernie has not met with BLM activists.

He doesn't always "have a plane to catch." A meeting with BLM activists is not impossible. Hillary did it. O'Malley did it. But not Bernie. He's still "working on setting up a meeting..."

[slipslidingaway]

58. You really need to look at his past before spouting current talking points ...

the struggle for racial equality began decades and decades ago, he has never wavered and has always been ahead of many others.

The reason he has gained in the polls is the fact that his story has not changed over the years, he is genuine in his beliefs.

BLM is but a dot on his long career for racial equality.

Would you like a friend and ally for today, or a friend and ally for decades.

I know my answer.

[Zorra]

19. In some cases they are not valid; in others, they are dishonest.

Depends on who is doing the comparing.

Reviewing the historical political agendas of those making the comparison can help in making accurate determinations about which comparisons are not valid, and those which are dishonest.

[sibelian]

21. Exactly. Beginning with the assumption of guilt.

Why?

[SonderWoman]

24. Aren't Bernie supporters the only ones comparing though?

[slipslidingaway]

37. Unless you count those saying Clinton was 'also' interrupted ...

there are protests and then there are "planned protests" which are publicized on the internet.

Big difference.

[BainsBane]

27. No, she invited them to meet

Sanders had ample opportunity to do so. In fact, he cancelled a meeting with them at Netroots. BLM didn't arrange a meeting in advance. They turned up to protest, couldn't get by the Secret Service, so Hillary invited them to talk to her. The key difference is her extending the invitation, something Sanders could have done at any time but for some reason didn't until after Seattle.
The fact his supporters have gone out of their way to insist he has no need to address issues concerning communities of color may have played a roll in that. In fact, that his supporters are so determined to insist he not address anything that isn't about them, is one of the principle reasons I refuse to support him. As another OP today noted, Sanders would draw from his support base for cabinet positions. I don't want people who insist that the rights and concerns of the non-white male majority are not worth addressing anywhere near government.

Sanders supporters worked overtime on social media to insist he not be accountable to Black Lives Matter as well as other groups and constituencies. They insisted he had no responsibility to address issues of racism in America today because marching 50 years ago was enough. Toward that end, black members of this site who addressed concerns about their communities were insulted. That Sanders supporters were so adamant in that regard may be part of the reason it took him so long to agree to meet with BLM. And now you're upset that people (I don't know who) have noticed that one candidate is more open to talking to that segment of the electorate than another. That is clearly what many of his supporters wanted--as the constant allegations that BLM was a Koch/Soros/Clinton/god knows what conspiracy reveal. Now his supporters will just have to live with the damage they inflicted on his campaign.

[jfern]

32. Sanders has met with plenty of BLM activists

He even has one as his National Press Secretary who talks about BLM before his events.

[stupidicus]

35. indeed, that's highly confusing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=527848

[slipslidingaway]

36. There was a spontaneous protest at a non-Sanders event and then there was a planned "protest"

at a Clinton event that was published in advance and for which the protestors were too late to clear security.

Call it dishonest or whatever name you want, but they are not the same.

[jwirr]

39. Another comparison: At both NN and Seattle they screamed and yelled

at Bernie grabbing the mic and never asked one question after they had the mic that I heard. At NN Bernie answered some of their questions during the very short Q&A period he got before the whole program was shut down by the moderator.

I did not see any screaming and yelling at Hillary despite the fact that she kept them in a separate room until the crowd was gone. And Hillary was actually disagreeing with them in the video.

Does anyone have a video of the confrontation with Bush. I would love to see what was said by them and him. One clip I saw he was pointing his finger at them and it looked like he was yelling at them.

We do have to remember that it is going to be hard to compare any of these events because each is led by different people who have started their own part of the larger BLM group. Each uses their own methods. The thing in common they all have is the basic goal to keep the many deaths of unarmed black people at the hands of the police in the news.

[slipslidingaway]

52. What would Clinton do if protestors had jumped on stage, moved closer to her while shouting ...

ideas???