Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

General Motors VP Bob Lutz green pose is a "total crock of shit"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
kgrandia Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:07 PM
Original message
General Motors VP Bob Lutz green pose is a "total crock of shit"
Among the most galling visions, as U.S. carmakers stand cap-in-hand before the American people, is the site of a preening GM Vice President Bob Lutz pretending to be green.

Lutz is firmly on the record as someone who is too lazy, too ideologically hidebound or just too stupid to look at the latest robust and frightening science of climate change. He has dismissed global warming as "a total crock of shit," saying that he puts his faith in the signatories of the laughable Oregon petition.

More: http://www.desmogblog.com/gm-vp-bob-lutz-green-pose-total-crock-shit-global-warming
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Does that really make a difference in trying to save the jobs of millions?
Not just millions of workers, but workers who have collectively supported our party for decades?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Save the jobs, definitely.
But the guys who ran the industry into the ditch? Not so much. Surely, there is a young Steve Jobs or someone of the same breadth and depth of vision and love of disruptive technology who can kick these companies in the ass.

Cancel Steve Jobs. What they need is a Jay Miner. Google the name.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gizmo1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I feel the ceo's should either have
to quit or put all their investment money in their own companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. they`ll be nurtured
after jan.20 2009 it`s going to be a new deal. it took the Chrysler bail out three months to seal the deal.

they have around thirty days before anything positive happens
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kgrandia Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If GM listened
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 04:24 PM by kgrandia
They would not be in this mess. The Big 3 automkaers are not valiant saviors trying to save the US economy and millions of jobs, they are boneheads who made bonehead moves i.e. Hummers and now they are begging desperately for the US government to bail them out of their own pit of stupidity.

Anybody losing their jobs at Toyota? Nope.

The most messed up irony is it is all these yahoos who brain washed the public into believing the freemarket system was the ultimate.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Is it really the automaker's fault?
The reason Toyota et al are more prepared for high energy prices in the US is that energy prices in their domestic markets are maintained at artificially high prices through taxation.

The US, for whatever reason, has chosen to maintain energy prices as low as possible for the consumer; rejecting long term planning at the political level.

Who do you realistically lay the blame for that on? Energy companies, politicians, consumers, auto companies? All of them?

Add to that the fact the the main reason for the current predicament is much more economic downturn than it is related to having the wrong line up of vehicles and I just don't see how these criticisms of the automakers are justified.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kgrandia Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. These criticisms


Criticisms about US automakers being blind to the trends towards more fuel efficient vehicles are not new. The Big 3 autos themselves have been fighting higher fuel economy standards for almost a decade now - it is their lobbyist on Capitol Hill that fought fuel efficiency standards.

Over the years economists, politicians, scientists and environmental groups, among others, have provided a million reasons for why GM should move to a more fuel efficient fleet - GM and the others didn't listen.

GM has been in huge financial problems for years because nobody is buying the massive gas guzzlers they stubbornly continue to build.

If GM and the other US automakers had listened (like Toyota and Honda did) they would be hurting right now, but not going bankrupt and begging the government for money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think you are grinding an ax, not making an analysis
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 05:27 PM by kristopher
You're factually incorrect regarding the relative gas mileage of the vehicle line-up of the various automakers; a Forerunner, Tundra or Lexus doesn't do any better than their US competition. They are all delivering to the market what the market asks for. The rules governing what the market is asking for are influenced by the automakers, but they are not the only input into the process by a wide margin. Every policy has people and interested parties pulling in a variety of directions, so the fact that there were people advocating for alternative policies (higher CAFE standards for example) doesn't mean that the blame for the current economic problems are rooted in that aspect of their business model.

In fact, I think CAFE standards suck as a means of directing social resources. A much better approach is the one practiced in Janpan and Germany, where gasoline is taxed so that it doesn't fall below a minimum level, thus forcing consumers to shape the market into a more prudent long range configuration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. US is already using Getrmany's minimum-price approach
called 'excise tax'

no change is needed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I rest my case.
Table 5.12-4 Vehicle Fuel Retail Price (2001 US Dollars Per Liter)

Country Retail Price ...Wholesale Price ..Taxes ..Portion Tax
UK ...........$1.08 ....$0.25 ............$0.83 ...77%
Germany ......$0.89 ....$0.23 ............$0.66 ...74%
France .......$0.91 ....$0.24 ............$0.67 ...74%
Italy ........$0.93 ....$0.30 ............$0.63 ...67%
Spain ........$0.70 ....$0.27 ............$0.43 ...62%
Japan ........$0.88 ....$0.40 ............$0.49 ...55%
Canada .......$0.41 ....$0.22 ............$0.19 ...45%
United States $0.35 ....$0.25 ............$0.10 ...29%

http://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca0512.pdf.

The US and Germany aren't even close to being the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. ever seen a toyota tundra?
toyota`s production is way down in the usa.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Think of them as "early adopters".
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 05:20 PM by GliderGuider
By the time this depression is fully underway in two or three years we'll be looking at over 30% unemployment in every industrialized nation in the world -- basically on a par with the current situation in Africa. That could result in the US economy shedding jobs at the rate of one to two million a month, for a number of years. Compared to the final toll of such a scenario, that could top out over 50 million unemployed, a couple of million unemployed auto workers are a sneeze in a windstorm.

If saving the jobs of a couple of million people would turn back the tide of depression, I'd be all for it. In our current situation, however, it will at most delay the inevitable tsunami by a quarter or two. I'm as against bailing out the auto industry as I'm against bailing out the banking industry. And as a victim of the tech wreck, I know what it feels like to lose one's job when a bubble bursts. Retrenchment was was the right thing for the high tech industry to do, and it's the right thing for the auto industry.

You would be much further ahead putting the money into s combination of unemployment insurance, universal health care and public works projects.

Sorry, I do not support an auto industry bail-out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. good for you...i`m glad you stand shoulder to shoulder with the american worker
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
9.  who the fuck cares what he said....
gm have the highest over all average mpg across the product line than any other manufacture. they are testing the 4th generation fuel cell vehicle across the country. they have the "green car of the year". they have the "car of the year". the volt is ready to be put into production.

someone must have decided to build and develop these cars....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct 31st 2024, 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC