Blackwell intends to Run Out the Clock

[truehawk]

Subject: Blackwell intends to RUN OUT THE CLOCK
Message:

http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200411/POL2004111...

Blackwells spokesman says the vote will not probably not be certified until Dec 6.


From Ohio State University's Site

hio's experience with automatic recounts naturally raises the question: is Ohio prepared for the possibility of a recount in the November presidential election? The electoral college will meet December 13th this year, or 41 days after Election Day, and the "safe harbor" deadline for resolving any controversies over the vote count is six days earlier, December 7th.

(Failure to meet this deadline would mean that Congress gets to choose between competing sets of electoral votes sent from Ohio.)

Given past experience, it is not certain that the statutory recount process could be completed by this deadline. In addition, R.C. 3515.09 entitles the defeated candidate to file a contest of election up to ten days after the recount is completed, and R.C. 3515.10 dictates that the contest will be heard by a court no sooner than 15 days after it as filed, creating even more delay and uncertainty. Thus, with two months to go until Election Day, this important question about Ohio's ability to conduct timely recounts in a presidential election remains unanswered.

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/procedures_recount...


The counties are supposed to start the final count by Nov 17.
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/dates.html

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. They ran out the clock in Florida in 2000

it is always the strategy of the perceived leader.

[truehawk]

2. We Have to make Congress Wait Until the Recount is Over

[Kralizec]

3. these are OLD tactics,

surely Nader, Bev, etc, are prepared for these types of shananigans.

[paula777]

4. I can't get the townhall link .... says page is expired

[truehawk]

8. Townhall Artical

Green Party Claims Ohio Ballot Recount a 'Certainty'
(CNSNews.com) - Almost two weeks after Democratic presidential nominee, Sen. John Kerry, threw in the towel in the 2004 race, the Green Party claims that a recount in the crucial state of Ohio is now a "certainty."

snip

Although Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell has yet to certify the results of the state's presidential voting, Republican President George W. Bush won 2,796,147 votes on Nov. 2 to Kerry's 2,659,664, a difference of 136,483. Ohio's 20 electoral votes helped Bush accumulate 286 in all, 16 more than he needed for re-election.


Blair Bobier, the media director for the Cobb campaign, alleged Monday that "the Ohio presidential election was marred by numerous press and independent reports of mis-marked and discarded ballots, problems with electronic voting machines and the targeted disenfranchisement of African-American voters."


A Monday night hearing in Columbus was being planned by citizens' groups and voting rights organizations, Bobier said, "to take testimony from voters, poll watchers and election experts about problems with the Ohio vote."


One of Cobb's rivals for the vote, the Libertarian candidate Badnarik, is also seeking the recount. Cobb said he and Badnarik are demanding that Blackwell, the Ohio secretary of state who co-chaired the Bush campaign in Ohio this year, "recuse himself from the recount process."


James Lee, Blackwell's spokesman, Monday dismissed the idea that a recount of Ohio's presidential voting was a certainty, as claimed by Cobb.


A recount is impossible until the results are certified, which Lee estimated would happen around Dec. 6. And separate recount requests must be filed with each county in Ohio, Lee added.


Lee acknowledged that "with any election there are going to be individuals who are disappointed with the outcome.


"In our litigious society," Lee added, "certainly people are not nearly as shy as they used to be about going to the courts to remedy whatever in life they're disappointed with."


But Lee said this year's Ohio vote "went remarkably smoothly, considering we had record turnout.


"Many people waited in line and demonstrated admirable civility and poll workers did an outstanding job," Lee said.


Still, with Internet conspiracy theories still floating around regarding the allegedly successful effort by Republicans to use fraud to steal the 2004 presidential election, Ohio provides an inviting target.


The electoral votes "are certified on Dec. 7," said Jonathan Turley, a constitutional law professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., who is not connected to the official recount bid in Ohio.


Presidential electors (the individuals casting the electoral votes) "actually vote on Dec. 13. But those votes are not opened by Congress until Jan. 6. So there is still time to challenge the results in Ohio, as well as other close states such as New Mexico, Iowa and Nevada," Turley said. "This is not to say that a recount is likely to change the result of the election, but it is not an impossibility.

Stories from CNSNews.com are Copyright © 2004 by the Cybercast News Service

[Eloriel]

10. YES -- PLEASE FIX YOUR LINK

Thanks

[truehawk]

12. Link

http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200411/POL20041116a.shtml

[truehawk]

13. Add this after /2004111

6a.shtml

for some reason the board keeps eating the last 9 characters of the address.

Anyone know why?

Or how to edit the link in the original post?

[Hunter1952]

5. Ohio Recount Law

Tuesday, November 16th, 2004
More About Ohio Recounts


The talk about a possible recount has triggered questions about who decides a recount is necessary. Here’s what the law says:

From Chapter 3515.01 of the Ohio Revised Code Statutes

“Any person for whom votes were cast in a primary election for nomination as a candidate for election to an office who was not declared nominated may file with the board of elections of a county a written application for a recount of the votes cast at such primary election in any precinct in such county for all persons for whom votes were cast in such precinct for such nomination.

“Any person who was a candidate at a general, special, or primary election for election to an office or position who was not declared elected may file with the board of a county a written application for a recount of the votes cast at such election in any precinct in such county for all candidates for election to such office or position.

“Any group of five or more qualified electors may file with the board of a county a written application for a recount of the votes cast at an election in any precinct in such county upon any question or issue, provided that the members of such group shall state in such application either that they voted “Yes” or in favor of such question or issue and that such question or issue was declared defeated or rejected, or that they voted “No” or against such question or issue and that such question or issue was declared carried or adopted. Such group of electors shall, in such application, designate one of the members of the group as chairman, and shall indicate therein the voting residence of each member of such group. In all such applications the person designated as chairman is the applicant for the purposes of sections 3515.01 to 3515.07 of the Revised Code, and all notices required by section 3515.03 of the Revised Code to be given to an applicant for a recount shall be given to such person.

“In the recount of absentee ballots that are tallied by county instead of by precinct, as provided in section 3509.06 of the Revised Code, the county shall be considered a separate precinct for purposes of recounting such absentee ballots.”

So, no, the fact that a defeated candidate wants a recount, does not mean they automatically get one.

Presuming that a recount does happen, here are the criteria (somebody learned from Florida):

“At the time and place fixed for making a recount, the board of elections, in the presence of all witnesses who may be in attendance, shall open the sealed containers containing the ballots to be recounted, and shall recount them. If a county used punch card ballots and if a chad is attached to a punch card ballot by three or four corners, the voter shall be deemed by the board not to have recorded a candidate, question, or issue choice at the particular position on the ballot, and a vote shall not be counted at that particular position on the ballot in the recount. Ballots shall be handled only by the members of the board or by the director or other employees of the board. Witnesses shall be permitted to see the ballots, but they shall not be permitted to touch them, and the board shall not permit the counting or tabulation of votes shown on the ballots for any nomination, or for election to any office or position, or upon any question or issue, other than the votes shown on such ballots for the nomination, election, question, or issue concerning which a recount of ballots was applied for.”

In English - NO FISHING.

So, what if Kerry wins in a few counties and gets a lead in Ohio from recounts?

§ 3515.06 Application for recount in precincts not recounted

“If, pursuant to section 3515.04 of the Revised Code, a person was declared nominated as a candidate for election to an office or elected to an office or position in an election and if it subsequently appears by the amended declaration of the results of such election made following a recount of votes cast in such election that such person was not so nominated or elected, such person may, within five days after the date of such amended declaration of the results of such election, file an application with the board of elections for a recount of the votes cast at such election for such nomination or election in any precinct, the ballots of which have not been recounted.

If, following a recount of votes cast in an election upon any question or issue, the amended declaration of the results of such election shows the result of such election to be contrary to the result thereof as declared in the original declaration of the results thereof, any group of five or more qualified electors which has filed a statement with the board as provided in the third paragraph of section 3515.03 of the Revised Code may, within five days after the date of the amended declaration, file an application with the board for a recount of the votes cast at such election upon such question or issue in any precinct of the county, the votes of which have not been recounted.

Sections 3515.01 and 3515.02 to 3515.05 of the Revised Code are applicable to any application provided for in this section and to the recount had pursuant thereto.”

Or, again in English - If Kerry wins by cherry-picking some counties, Bush can still get the rest of the state recounted.

[truehawk]

20. NO SURRENDER Fortunately they HAVE certified Florida!!!!

[Spangle]

6. Let "The HIll" decide

(Failure to meet this deadline would mean that Congress gets to choose between competing sets of electoral votes sent from Ohio.)

Congress or Senete?

I say let them choose. Bush is all ready said to have won. Let "the hill" put their vote on it. IF it shows that Kerry won Ohio and "the hill" gave it to Bush..... Shit will hit the fan.

When election times comes around... Those that voted for Bush will be remembered. <grin> Not only that, they will feel "responsible" for his actions. Tied to the crimes. Cause they know their vote will be remembered.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. another asterisk next to AWOL's name is just fine with me

if we don't win a recount Bush's legitimacy needs to be kept in question.

[truehawk]

9. We will only have a week to show them that Kerry Won

The a recount took 6 weeks in 1990.

We will have 1 week to find the truth.

[ParanoidPat]

14. That's the reason for the "mobilization" fund.......

.......to cover the cost of all the counting teams required to pull off simultaneous counts in all counties. :)

[truehawk]

16. Only the BOE can handle the ballots but we can audit the books

[truehawk]

11. :Poll Books

The Voter lists were open for Inspections on Oct 18.
We need to get those poll books NOW and start auditing those for

[truehawk]

15. Dead Republicans

[Pithy Cherub]

17. Time is the one resource

that is not replenishable. Bev said on her site that running out the clock is the strategy for *, but they were still going to prove the case. Time works for their side right now and ours later - the statute of limitations will have barely kicked in while Bev is reviewing everything.

[jsamuel]

18. The problem is that if it happens after the election is over, unless they

directly implicate *, he will get away with it.

If they do it before, they can call the election a fraud and woop.

[truehawk]

21. And we WILL get to Recount part of NH

[truehawk]

19. kick