Reply #246: Maybe you're right [View All]

[Merope215]

I'm not even very devout, and honestly I don't really like to talk about religion. But most the people I've met at my church have been very critical and thoughtful about it and its role. The church has the resources to do a lot of good and a lot of evil, and I don't think that fact is lost on most. I don't think religion - any religion - has any place at all in public life, and I'm vehemently opposed to most of the political teachings of the RCC, for one. I like the theology a lot, but maybe because I've always been taught that love is the first thing, and no one has any right to be judgmental. It's a teaching that more Christians in this country should think about.

I think if the people on DU had preachers who said shit like that, we would indeed call them out on it. But we don't go to those kinds of churches - why the hell would you want to listen to something like that? My own church wasn't used to stump for President Pinhead; in fact, our own garden-variety Catholic fundies (at Yale, no less - who would have thought?) were so pissed off about everyone being loving and accepting (and Democratic) that they splintered off into a chapter of hard-core fundamentalist Catholics. So I've seen the issue with my own eyes. I don't really know what to do about it because I can't relate to the black-and-white, with-us-or-you're-going-to-hell mentality that characterizes those people. I think the world has rather a lot of shades of gray.

It's something I've been thinking a lot about lately. The problem is that you can't argue with a fundamentalist because they don't believe in reason. Personally, I think there's a reason I have a brain, and I'm probably intended to use it. But really, I don't know how to get through to the fundies, and I think that's the real problem. If someone did stand up in a church and say what you suggest, of course it would be the right thing to do, and we would all applaud them, and we would be right to do that. But it wouldn't change the minds of anyone else in that church, and that's where the real problem is. Before we can take our religion back, and before all of us can take our country back, from the Talibornagain, we have to figure out a way that we can talk so they'll listen. I'm trying to figure out how, but it's very tricky. They think the Bible is literally true in its entirety, and although there's lots of stuff about treating people kindly and not judging lest ye be judged and all, fundies also think the devil can quote Scripture for his own purposes, so to speak. And they don't listen to anything that contradicts the Bible. So I don't know how to open a dialogue with them - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Maybe it's a topic for another thread: how to get through to someone who doesn't believe in reason.

I'm sorry if I misconstrued some of your comments. I don't like the fundies either, and I don't like the way they treat people at all. I guess I get a little defensive when people here start seeming like it's tough for them to tell the difference between those kinds of people and the ones who aren't interested in theocracy, don't normally talk about their religion, and wouldn't dream of proselytizing or treating someone differently because of that person's beliefs. Maybe if we all put our heads together, we can come up with ways to talk to the fundies, and I think we'd all be a lot better off.

Sorry about the second really long post! :hi: