Reply #54: Um, yes, but that wasn't my point, nor was it his. [View All]

[pattim]

I agree with you entirely on every point. Bill would likely agree with you on all points but "never could."

He was arguing against the "My grandfather was poor therefore I have no chance for success" argument. He said, look, the Irish came over here with nothing, they encountered racism (NINA? I'm full-blooded Irish, you know) and now they're successful. Africans came over with nothing, they exited slavery with nothing, they encountered racism, and now quite a few of them are indeed successful, and that means that the basic argument for reperations is not valid. That was his point. You may not agree with it, but he didn't imply blacks WANTED to come here, which is what the OP suggested, nor did he imply the situations were equal.

And as for gunpoint: "at gunpoint" means "as if under the threat of being shot." They were captured at gunpoint. They were bound in chains at gunpoint. They were loaded onto ships and sold at gunpoint. They often worked at gunpoint, and if they escaped, they were caught an gunpoint. I believe "gunpoint" is a perfectly acceptable term. I intended it to mean "forced by other people" as opposed to the Irish "forced by situation."

And either way, he didn't mean to imply the situations were equal, but rather that they were both examples of coming over with nothing and having their descendants find success. Many have not found success, yes, but some have, and that was his point. I don't agree with the message, but it isn't the brutally ignorant one the OP claimed it was.