You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #220: If someone honestly believes that prayer is "getting what you want," [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #184
220. If someone honestly believes that prayer is "getting what you want,"
then there is nothing I can say. My God is not Santa Claus, and s/he most definately does not "give me what I want." I often have no idea what I want. Prayer is the means through which I discover not what I want, but what I need. God desires, more than anything, to be in relationship with each of us, and prayer is intimate conversation with God.

1. the methodology of interpretation

The passage to which you refer is set within a specific context: Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount."
What you are quoting is one phrase of a sentence of an idea/thought in a sermon.

This morning, I took a plastic easter egg (which a child had given me, filled with a note: "God loves you, and so do I."), and placed it on the altar during the offering. I told the congregation about the note, and said "my sermon is nothing compared to what Tommy has given us today. This is the Easter message, plain and simple." Then I said, "Now you can officially go home and tell everyone that Pastor Ruth laid an egg on the altar."

If someone takes one phrase from that statement, they could claim that I said "I laid an egg." One could say those are my very words, because that is indeed what I said. But if you inferred that somehow I claimed that I had the ability to lay an egg like a chicken, that is not true. And if someone, who doesn't know me, only heard that phrase alone, they might say "Oh, that's the church where the pastor teaches people that they can lay eggs like chickens." That statement is false, and a misrepresentation of what happened.

Fundamentalists use scripture in just that way. They often take individual sentences, out of context, and make the Bible say what they want it to say. This kind of "recipe-book" redaction is a false use of scripture. The primary rule for interpretation (especially for preachers) is "let the text speak to you."
Do not make the text say what you want it to say. Read it, study it, digest it, and let it sit with you. Listen. Listen again. Then speak.

* * * * * * *

2. an explanation of the passage about prayer (the content)

What Matthew wrote, in context, was a synopsis of a sermon in which Jesus was teaching people about love, self-worth, value, fear, anger, religious practices, judging others, and self-deception. (The entire sermon is really Matthew, chapters 5 - 7. It is also found in Luke, but not as one complete "sermon", but rather, divided by various teachings of Jesus.

This passage, on religious practices, is about prayer. Jesus says, when you pray, pray like this:

"God (Father/Mother/Parent) in heaven, may your name always be holy. May your kingdom come, and your will be done on earth as in heaven. Give us our daily sustenance. Forgive us for our sins in the same manner as we forgive others. Save us from trials and temptations, and from evil."
(this paraphrase is by RevCheesehead)


He tells them not to make a public display of prayer. He tells them that if they want forgiveness, then they have to give forgiveness to others - if they won't, then God will not forgive them. When they fast (as a spiritual discipline) it should be done privately, between you and God, and not for public display. He warns against materialism, and the pursuit of false treasures: God is not about giving wealth. If you're poor, do not worry about it. You WILL be provided for, more than you realize.

But the real heart of his sermon comes next: "Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. If you judge others, you will be judged in the same harsh manner that you judge others. Do not profane things which are holy. Then comes:

"Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!"

"In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets."


Jesus concludes by saying this way is difficult - it is a narrow gate, but it is the way that leads to life. He warns against false prophets, who are known by their fruits. And the biggie is the warning against self-deception (and my personal favorite):

Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kngdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day amny will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?" Then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; go away from me, you evil-doers."


His last words in the sermon tell people that it isn't enough to simply hear the words: they must act on them. (in other passages, "Be doers of the Word, and not hearers only.")

* * * * * * *

3. personal reflection/thoughts

I am sorry that you believe you have been lied to. I do not know enough about your situation to make suggestions, and I doubt that you want any. That's OK.

Christianity most definately is NOT about enduring humiliation or abuse!! Anyone who teaches that is gravely misrepresenting the faith, and will be held accountable. :grr:
Christianity is about love: love for God, and love for one another. My faith teaches that Jesus endured humiliation and abuse, so that we would not have to. We are to treat one another with love and respect.
("I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone whill know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." -John 13:34-35)

We may need to "agree to disagree" here. I'm OK with that. I'm not here to convert anyone. I'm simply speaking out on this thread because I do have a few things to say, which may or may not be helpful to others. All I ask is that my views and beliefs be treated with the same respect that others receive. We can politely disagree with one another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC