Reply #66: But you can't prove it, Q, beyond your small patch of experience [View All]

[wyldwolf]

Well....I would say that the people who have supported the Democratic party for so long are owed SOMETHING.

And we all receive things from the party...

For instance...Blacks and workers have been very loyal to the party...but they'll tell you they think they're getting screwed by the 'new' Democrats who don't support unions and are wishy washy on programs that benefit minorities.

They'll tell me? Really? As long as we're working off of purely anecdotal evidence, I know many blacks and workers who share my political perspective. They haven't told me they're being screwed. Or maybe you have some national poll that explicitly says this?

Win some elections? You mean like the DLCers have been 'wining' since 1994?

Yes. Funny - far lefties cry about the stolen election of 2000 and whisper about the stolen 2004 election UNTIL discussions of moderates and DLC comes up, then they say those elections were lost.

So, for the record - Clinton in '96. The DNC won house seats in '98. Gore in 2000.

In 2002, senate-wise, Dems lost control of Senate by 2 seats. The DLC lost two seats (GA and MO) but gained one (Arkansas) for a net loss of one. Non-DLC dems lost one seat. So DLC and non DLC both lost 1 seat, but the stories don't end there. In Georgia, Max Cleland was targeted with a vicious smear campaign that essentially called him a bin Laden sympathizer. Do you feel if Cleland weren't a DLC or moderate, it would have made a difference? Also, 2002 was a bad year for Dems in GA, period, with Gov. Roy Barnes losing partially because he removed the confederate emblem from a prominant position on the GA flag.

However, in Minnesota, very-non DLC Paul Wellstone was lagging behind Republican Coleman (depending on the poll) before his plane crash. Walter Mondale, also considered by many as being very liberal, couldn't retain the seat.

The Democratic party has never been in this bad of shape in its entire history.

This is true BUT as the record indicates, is isn't moderate or the DLC who have faired the worse. At least they're getting on the ballots.

I don't have to show evidence about what women, blacks, poor, workers, etc think about the 'new' Democratic party.

What a cop-out! Of course you have to show evidence if you are to have any credibility in this discussion.

Many Dems believe they've been sold out.

And many more don't

in 2008...any Democratic candidate will have to EARN votes because they won't be automatically given as in 2000 and 2004.

Proof? No, I guess you saying it makes it so.

the 'far left' hasn't had any real power or leadership role in the party since the New Deal and Great Society.

FDR was a moderate democrat - despised by both the left and the right.

you should know that the New Democrats are actively working to keep anyone to the left of them out of leadership positions.

Not that you can prove that statement BUT if the dem base really feel as you do, the will of the people would have far lefties in leadership roles...

"WE" knew long before the primaries that a DLCers or someone they approve of would become the 'chosen one' to continue to sell out the party.

The PEOPLE voted in the primaries. Remember? More unproven sour grapes conspiracy tripe.